Q. Let me ask you, have you ever seen the calculations and figures of Mr. Clark ?

A. No, sir; never have.

Q. Do you know what the thickness of the walls is?

A. I have not seen his figures.

Q. How have you measured?

A.

I started to measure from the west-southwest room, and then I went round.

Q. Will your figures show the thickness of all the outside walls around?

A. Certainly, except the stone.

Q. How do you know how thick those walls are? Tell the committee how you could estimate the brick there.

A.

We had that here a few minutes ago-the same thing. Some parts of the stone are exposed, and I measured the thickness of them and I have averaged the whole.

Q. You didn't, in any place, go through the wall?

A. I did not knock a hole through the wall. The main walls I could judge of, easily enough. Those composed of stone and brick had to be averaged.

Q. You had to guess at the figures, did you not?

A. Had to do the best I could. Measured as far as I could without knocking a hole through the wall.

Q. When you got down in the cellar, the specifications required you to measure from the spring of the arch to the top, making it all solid. How could you tell? How could you tell how far it was-how deep the arches went?

A. I reckoned from the floor above to the foundation; from the basement floor, the whole hight of the cellar.

Q. I want to see how much experience you have. Now, here is the spring of the arch (illustrating). Now, sir, how could you tell, when the floor was all over there, how far it was up from the spring to the top-no hole to see through?

A. (Witness illustrating.) Suppose here is the arch, and there the spring of the arch. I know how far it is from here to here, and from that I get the thickness of the floor. (Some further illustrations were not clear to the reporter.)

Q. Mr. Starck, I want to have the committee learn something about your ability to measure. Have you had large experience

in measuring brick walls?

[MR. ROBERTS.-I would say, that in the original examination witness gave a complete history of his life.]

[MR. ROBINSON.-I think there are some things that perhaps he hasn't given. I know something about the gentleman's history.]

(To the witness.)

Q. How long have you been in this country?

A. Fifteen years.

Q. Where have you worked?

A. Both New York and Philadelphia.

Q. How long in Philadelphia ?

A. From 1863 till two years ago.

Q. Just give the names of the men you worked for in Philadelphia.

A. Mr. Samuel Sloan was one; Mr. John McArthur. They were the two principal architects I worked for. Then I had an office of my own. I worked for the United States--for General Crossman. That's in Philadelphia.

Q. What is Sloan's profession?

A. He is an architect.

Q.

Is he a man of ability in his profession?

A. I believe him to be so.

Q. A man of integrity and truth?

A. He is. I was employed, at first, with him about four months, and then a short time afterwards I was again employed when he got his large building, the Free Mason's hall. I worked again for him four months.

Q. Was he an architect?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. A man of ability and integrity?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What other architects did you know. Give some of the principal ones.

A. Several. Mr. Somers is one. Then the principal architect of the Free Mason's hall; I've forgotten his name.

Fournice and Frazer.

Q. Did you do anything more than drawing?

A. Drawing was a part of my work.

Q. Did you ever get up the plan of a building?

Then

A. For Mr. McArthur, I did. Besides, I got a written statement from some of those gentlemen, and have brought it with me.

Q. I know about your written statements. I understand about your written history. When did you leave there?

A.

Four months after I came here I went back.

PHILADELPHIA, January 29, 1869.

The undersigned, at the request of Mr. C. P. Bolin Starck, take pleasure in recommending him for such employment as he may seek; having been in our employ at various times, we can testify to his being a competent draughtsman, and steady, industrious and intelligent gentleman.

SAMUEL SLOAN, Architect, 152, South Fourth Street, Philadelphia.

W. S. ANDREWS, Architect 209, South Sixth St.

LEWIS COOPER, 2030, Walnut St.

OSCAR F. MOORE, 329, Walnut St.

HENRY CARTWRIGHT, 1st President American Meter Co.

JOSEPH HARRISON.

JAMES O. WATSON, 1229, N. Broad St.

GEO. SUMMERS, Architect, 206, South Sixth St.

G. H. CROSSMAN, A. Q. M., U. S. A., 2014, Delancy Place. JOHN MCARTHUR, JR., Architect, 209, South Sixth St.

THOS. A. BARLOW.

I concur in the foregoing recommendations.

MORTON MOMICHAEL.

To Whom it may Concern:

We certify that we have employed Mr. C. Starck as a draughtsman, and that we have been satisfied with his work, and that we recommend him to any one who may require the services of a good architectural draughtsman and colorist.

COCHRANE & PIQUENARD, Architects.

SPRINGFIELD, May 10, 1870.

Mr. EDWARD BAKER:

We, the undersigned, would most respectfully request that you would appoint Mr. C. Bolin-Starck as draughtsman to make copies of distilleries for your district. Mr. Starck understands this class of work well, having been engaged in this business in Philadelphia. Mr. S. will give you entire satisfaction.

E. E. MYERS, Architect,
CHAS. FISHER,

EDWARD RUMMEL,

E. S. JOHNSON.

Mr. Starck has been well recommended to me as an excellent draughtsman and a worthy, reliable gentleman.

JOHN M. PALMER.

I concur in the foregoing recommendations of Mr. Starck, as a good draughtsman and pleasant gentleman.

CHAS. RIDGLEY.

OTIS L. WHEELOCK, sworn:

Questions by Mr. ROBERTS:

Q. State your name, age and place of residence.

A. My name is Otis L. Wheelock; my residence is Chicago,

and my age fifty four.

Q. What is your profession?

A. An architect.

Q. How long have you been engaged in this business?

A. Twenty-five years.

Q. Where?

A. Sixteen years in Chicago; the rest of the time in New York State.

Q. Are you acquainted with Mr. Bolin-Starck-the gentleman who has just testified?

A. I have only seen him to-day.

Q. Have you examined so as to know anything about the manner in which he made the measurement of the brick-work in the new State House?

A. I know by what he showed me-by diagrams-how he arrived at the measurement.

Q. You may state what your judgment is as to the correctness of the measurement.

A. I should say his measurement was very liberal. I should say he figured it a little too much in some instances.

Q. Have you examined the walls?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. State the result of your examination as to the manner in which he measured it, whether it was liberal, and whether he accounted for all the brick there is?

A. I think he counted more brick than there is.

Q. State whether you have ever examined the specifications under which that brick was to be laid?

A. Never very thoroughly; the other gentlemen read it over two or three times in my hearing. We had some discussion on the specification, as to the mode of measuring. It seems the specifications were made when there were not to be any arches, but only iron girders; it was afterwards changed to put in arches, and the mode of measurement was the same comparatively.

Q. State if in your opinion the number of bricks he allows to be as much as the State House probably contains.

A. I think a little more.

Q. I will get you to state, if you have examined the brick-work, as to the manner in which it is laid.

A. I went with the other gentlemen, this morning, quite early, all through the halls and all on top of the walls, and examined pretty thoroughly, perhaps forty or fifty places, and found some walls very good, indeed-mortar pretty hard-other places found pretty bad. I had made up my mind that about half of the walls above the foundation should be taken down.

Q. State your reason for so thinking.

A. The mortar isn't good.