Q. Did he take the plans to aid him in measuring and marking the walls?

A. He had the plans to mark the walls. I furnished him a drawing of the plans from which he could mark the walls. If he measured it as he ought to have done, he must have every cubic foot in each wall, and should have compared his measurements with Clark's, and find out where the difference was, if there was any difference.

Q. You are satisfied that the measurement of young Clark is all right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You are satisfied there is a difference only of about forty thousand brick?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are the air flues to be measured solid or open?

A. The specifications say the hall walls and smoke flues are to be measured solid.

Q. What salary do you and Mr. Cochrane get for superintending the construction of this State House?

A. We get two and a half per cent. upon the cost of the building.

Q. How much of your time does it occupy?

A. It occupies considerable of my time. Often all the time for a month. Sometimes I have a month or so when I don't have much to do.

Q. How often do you visit the building?

A. Since I have lived in Springfield, except a few days, I was upon the grounds every day.

Q. How long would you stay upon the grounds ?

A. A half an hour or so.

Q. How do you occupy the rest of your time?

A. In making drawings, etc.

Q. How much time does Mr. Cochrane give to it.

A. Part of his time.

Q. How much time does he spend on the grounds?

A. When I am here it is not necessary for him to be on the grounds. He has been here a few times since I have been here, to see how things were going on.

Q. He is engaged in building other buildings all the tirae.

Vol. I-116

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you been engaged in superintending other buildings

since you have been here?

A. Yes, sir. A few buildings in Bloomington.

also made the plans for the Iowa State House.

We have

Q. Did you make the plans for the Iowa State House?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they accepted?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When?

A. I think it was in September of last year. I cannot give you the exact time.

Q. Are you superintending the building of that?

A. We will be when we get fairly started.

Q. You have the contract for superintending the building of that?

A. Yes, sir, we are the architects of it.

Q. Can you give the proper attention to this while superintending that?

A. Yes, sir, we can.

Q. What is that building to cost?

A. It is to cost $1,500,000, without the dome.

Q. You think this building can be finished for less than $3,000,000 according to the plans and specifications?

A. I think when that building is completed, the whole cost will come within the constitutional limit of the three millions and a half. I give that as a calculation I have made, and not as a guess. It is an exact calculation of the cost of the work and materials.

Q. Has that building not cost more than the original calculation, already.

A. If the original calculation is that of two years ago, I say it was done for less.

Q. The calculation of four years ago.

A. I had nothing to do with the calculation of four years ago. Q. Who made the first calculation?

A. I suppose Messrs. Cochrare & Garnsey.

Q. Don't you know the building has cost more than that first calculation? Nearly double as much.

A. I know it has cost more; if a man makes an estimate without knowing the ground upon which the building is to stand,

it is not likely to be correct; if that building was erected on a natural bed of rock, three or four feet thick, or a bed of hard clay, four or five feet thick, it could have been built at the first estimate.

Examination resumed-by Mr. ROBINSON:

Q. You were not with Mr. Cochrane when that foundation was laid?

A, No, sir.

Q. The reason why it cost more than the estimate, was because they had to go down deeper for a solid foundation.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Has the work that has been done since your estimate was made, and the estimate of the two Chicago architects, cost more or less than those estimates?

A. It has cost less than those estimates.

Q. What is the usual per cent. in this country, received by architects for making plans and specifications of buildings, and superintending the work?

A. They get five per cent.; I must add that in St. Louis they diminish only one per cent. for ever $500,000 after the first $500,000.

Q. What per cent. do you get upon the Iowa State House? A. That is not definitely settled yet; they pay us for our expenses and time for the first year.

Q What per cent. did you get upon the Bloomington Court House?

A. We got five per cent.

Q. I want to call your attention to one other thing; I want you to name a few of the prominent buildings in this country and Europe, and state what was paid for the plans;

A. There has never been in this country, except in Washington, any building erected that compares with this new State House in size and cost; I know Mr. Barry got five per cent. for the new House of Parliament.

Q. I am speaking now of the plans.

A. For the plans and specifications two and a half per cent. Q. Was $3,000 for the plans of this new State House an unreasonable amount?

A. No, sir; I considered it very cheap, and if it had not been

for the honor of building such a house, I don't think there would have been any competition.

Q. Is it customary for architects to have a number of buildings going on at the same time?

A. It is common and usual.

Q. About what number of men do you keep employed all the time in the office keeping the plans up?.

A. I have had as high as twelve men employed upon this building. I have now four men. Sometimes I bave three, four or five-depends upon how the work is going on. Upon an average we have certainly had four men employed all the time since we started. For months we had as high as twelve.

Q. You may state if it is true that about two years ago you were required by the Commissioners to make full and complete plans and specifications of the building, for the purpose of, under the law, of furnishing them to the Penitentiary Commissioners, and to two or three Committees of the House, to be passed upon? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you go to work and make those plans and specifications?

A. I did.

Q. About how long were you at work at them?

I

A. I could not exactly remember the number of days. think some seven or eight weeks. We had thirteen or fourteen men employed. We got all the men we could in Chicago.

Q. Were they the same plans that were submitted to those two architects and master builder of Chicago?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did they do with those plans? Did they make new plans or go over your's and see that they were right?

A. They went over my plans to see if they were right, and to see if the price we set upon the work was correct. They made new estimates of the work upon the plans we furnished them, but they didn't make a set of new plans.

Q. Are these plans any advantage to you in the progress of the work?

A. Not much.

Q. Do you have all your plans to make over by sections?

A. Yes, sir. The plans have all to be made over.

Q. What did you get for making those plans for those architects?

A. I got $5,000.

Q. Were you well satisfied with that?

We thought

A. No, sir. We asked ten thousand dollars. five thousand was too little. I gave about two months of my time, day and night to the work. I thought if I could not make a thousand dollars a month at that kind of work, working day and night, it was pretty cheap. After we paid our hands we didn't have much left.

Re-Examination by Mr. Roberts, on behalf of the Committee: Q. What do these hands do whom you keep in your employ? A. They work in the drawings after I pencil them out; occupied in tracing, and so forth. The best thing for you to do is to go to the office and see what they are doing. They are making plans for each stone in the building. Each separate stone has to be marked out; a drawing has to be made of every stone, o e above another. The size, length and height, with every jog, and every piece has to be marked out, so the stone cutter cannot pos. sibly mistake one stone for another. There is not one stone in that building that is not drawn five times.

Q. Then you think when you are at work at that kind of business, your services are worth $1,000 a month.

A. Yes, sir. When I work day and night. I didn't sleep more than four hours any night while I was making those draw. ings.

Q. The Commissioners gave you five thousand dollars for drawing those duplicate plans?

A. Yes, sir.

WM. CLARK, sworn.

Direct-by Mr. ROBINSON, Commissioner:

Q

State if you have been employed on the new State House? A. Yes, sir; I have.

Q. How long?

A. Well, it will be two years next July since I came there. Q. What have you been engaged in?