=20,704 inequal. Mr. T. said he would next call the attention of the committee to the detail submitted by the gentleman from Columbia, to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Oneida. This plan is to divide the state into thirty-two districts, and we have been told that this could be effected without much difficulty or injustice. What is the result? A constant division of towns and counties, which to him appeared inadmissible. It had been urged as a reason for the propriety of dividing counties, that it was frequently done in making congressional districts. There could be no soundness in this argument, for the representatives in congress stand the same with respect to their individual states, as the members of our assembly do with respect to their particular counties. They all act from one interest, coming from the same portion of the Union, and all having the same general object in view, the good of their state. The questions that arise, then, are of a national character, in which they all feel a common interest. The case is different in our legislature, where the members have all local interests, and local wishes to be gratified. If a county or town is to be divided, it affects the immediate objects of individuals, who have rival interests growing out of village jealousies, market privileges, county cites, &c. If some towns of one county were annexed to another county, to compose a senator district, it would thus often happen, that the representative of the single district thus composed, would oppose the very wishes of those towns annexed to a county with which they had no alliance. This was sufficient to show the impropriety of dividing counties, and setting off towns. It was not necessary to go into a detail on this subject, as a bare mention of the facts would be sufficient to convince any man who would reflect on them. He would next call the attention of the committee to the plan proposed by the gentleman from Columbia, by contrasting the different districts, to show the inequality of representation, which must be produced by this method of making single districts. 7 district, Columbia, 4,798 minus. 8 : Greene, Delaware, =29,519 Is not this sufficient to induce us to abandon a plan which produces such results? The inequalities produced by this plan, are double to those produced by the report of the committee; and as we have now fifty-two counties in the state, it becomes necessary to unite counties to form these single districts. Look at the districts composed of the counties of Madison and Oswego, between which there is no earthly connection, being separated by the Oneida Lake, which cuts off all social intercourse, and leaves the inhabitants of the different counties strangers to each other. Thus the object of small districts is totally de feated, and the inadmissibility of the plan satisfactorily demonstrated. It is totally contrary to the genius of our government, and incompatible with the principles upon which it was founded, and with the prosperity and happiness of the people who compose it. We confound the nature of the senate and assembly, and lay a foundation for continual discord between the two branches, and where this evil will end it is difficult to predict. The true spirit of our government requires, that the popular branch of our legislature present the interests and feelings of their constituents in detail, and that the senate stand as the umpire, to pronounce upon the interest of a large district; but if they are elected in small districts, their views will be more limited, and they will lose that independence and elevated rank which they ought to maintain in the legislature, and descend to the little local views, which will always agitate the more popular branch. This, then, is a subject of vital importance, and one upon which must, in a great measure, depend, the future prosperity of our government."Let us, then, endeavour to preserve the regular gradation of the different departments of our government. Let the local and individual views of the people be concentrated in the assembly, narrowed in the senate, and terminated in the. executive. We shall then have a fair representation of all the varying interests of the state, from local to general and state interests. From this view of the subject, he had thought it a duty to submit to the consideration of this committee, a plan for dividing the state into eight districts, by which it would be seen, that the object of equal representation, without the evil of dividing counties, might be effected more nearly than by any plan heretofore proposed. The greatest inequality would be a deficiency in the western part of the state of about 9,000, which would soon be made up by the rapid increase of population in that part of the state. Free white inhabitants in the state, 1,332,744 15,101 1,317,643 Divided by 32, the whole number of senators, gives 41,176, for each senator, and four senators require 164,705. By this plan I demonstrate the practicability of approximating very nearly to an equal representation, without resorting to the gerrymandering system. The counties composing each district are contiguous, and by their relative position, calculated to bring as great an unity of interests and feelings together, as the magnitude of the districts could by any other arrangement admit. He would not be understood as saying, that this plan was perfectly correct, but that it was as nearly so as the circumstances and nature of the case would allow. We have been again referred to the numbers of the Federalist, to show that a dissimilarity of the genius of the two branches of the legislature is required in forming a well balanced government. It was cited in a former debate in support of the freehold distinction in the qualification of the electorsbut such was not the object of the author. It was to demonstrate the propriety of having the different branches of the legislature represent different feelings and interests, and thus to secure in them a dissimilarity of character, and provide the one as a check upon the other. The constitution of the United States furnished a happy illustration of this principle. The house of representatives were the immediate delegates from the people, and chosen by them for the term of two years, and expressly to represent the local feelings and interests of the people. The senate was composed of persons chosen for six years; not by the people of the states, but by the legislatures of the several states, and elected expressly to represent the state sovereignties-to guard state rights, and prevent a consolidation of the Union. A perfect harmony was thus produced in the system of our government, and its several branches and different interests were protected and made safe in its every diversity of character. The same principle had been wisely adopted in the formation of our state government, and to create this diversity of character in the two branches, the assembly was elected by the counties, and the senate by districts, composed of several counties. The one representing local views, and the rival interests of contiguous villages, or adjoining counties, produced constant collisions between the representatives of counties, while the senators, coming from larger districts, presided over the common good, and harmonized conflicting feelings, and moderated rival contentions. This important principle ought not to be departed from, and its consideration had induced him to adopt the plan which he had submitted, to divide the state into eight districts of equal population and contiguous counties. This plan gave another important and essential benefit.-It allowed four senators to each district, to hold for the term of four years. Thus an annual election of one senator from each district was provided. Upon this plan one quarter of the senate is changed annually, and the feeling and common sentiment of the people is thus continually and gradually, and yet so tem perately, introduced into the body of the senate, as to give to it great stability of character, while it is properly affected by public feeling. MR. E. WILLIAMS had flattered himself, when the proposition of the gentleman from Oneida (Mr. Bacon) was presented, that if it could be demonstrated that the state could be divided into single districts, without the cutting up of counties, or great inequalities in population, that it would have received the support of the honourable gentlemen (Messrs. Duer and Tallmadge) who now opposed it. The principle seemed to have been aequiesced in on all sides of the house, and the practicability of its application appeared to be the only difficulty to surmount. But it seems that subsequent reflection has convinced those gentlemen, that their pre-conceived opinions were erroneous. But as he (Mr. W.) had not learned until this morning, the reasons which had operated to produce that change, it could not be expected that his mind should be immediately affected by them; and he should, therefore, be permitted to retain the sentiments which he had previously expressed. The honourable gentleman from Orange (Mr. Duer) utterly disclaimed all party considerations; although he contended that the statement which I had the honour of submitting to the committee, would produce the extraordinary effect of giving to a minority, the power to control a majority of the state. [Mr. D. explained, and Mr. W. proceeded.] But he (Mr. W.) was prepared to show that it would have a contrary effect. He had been too long in public life, and mingled too much in public concerns, not to fear that what had been, might be again; and he was not quite so foolish as to offer a party proposition for the acceptance of a towering majority. Mr. W. then adverted to the various districts he had proposed, and contrasted them with those reported by the committee; and what, he asked, might not be the possible result of the doubtful majorities in Queens and Westchester, as taken in connexion with Suffolk and Kings? But who could doubt the political complexion of a district composed of Suffolk and Queens, as he had proposed? And where could be the doubt of the entire orthodoxy of the second district, composed of Westchester, as united either to Putnam or Rockland? Mr. W. went further into detail, to show that the division he proposed would operate rather unfavourably than otherwise, to the party to which he was attached. If, then, the question was cleared of all considerations of party, it resulted to inquire whether it was practicable in its operation, and wise and correct in principle. On the latter point, he would not enlarge. The minds of the committee were undoubtedly fixed and determined on the subject. And he could not but think it a little extraordinary, that gentlemen should have this morning avowed a change of sentiment in relation to the principle, and have pressed "the Federalist" into the service to support that principle, when the doctrines of that book must have been long since fully known and understood. It was written in that particular with the view of shewing the extent and bearing of numbers and sovereignty. To shew the weight which the small state of Rhode Island should have in relation to the great state of New-York; and that, in one branch of the legislative department, state sovereignty should be represented, without regard to numbers. Mr. W. then went into a long and minute detail to shew that the proposition that had been submitted in favour of small districts, was less unequal in regard to population than that which had been submitted by the select committeethat it would bring the elections nearer home and present fewer fractions. He did not need the statement of the honourable gentleman from Queens (Mr. King) to convince him that a perfect numerical equality, could not be made without a severance of counties. He was fully aware that the exact number of 41,176 would not exactly suit every county, especially if a county should happen to have an odd number, and in that case, in order to make it precisely even, it would be necessary to split an individual. He did not expect to descend so far but his object was to shew, that the integrity of counties might be preserved, without any great inequality or injustice in relation to the amount of popula tion. Mr. W. then proceeded to examine and compare the population and situa tion of the various counties in the state, and contended that the districts might be so constituted as to present, in many cases, fewer, and in no case more, proportionable inequalities, than the districts as reported by the select commit tee. He replied to the argument of the honourable gentleman from Orange, (Mr. Duer) that large districts were preferable to small ones, on the ground that as you enlarge the circle of election, you are presented with elevation of character; and enquired why, on that principle, we should not open the state at large, constitute a great district, and elect our senators by general ticket? The argument proved too much, and the idea that it was necessary to vary from the mode of electing members of assembly, in order to diversify and bring into the legislative department a greater variety of interest, was, in his opinion, equally fallacious, as applied to the case in question. It was to be regretted, however, that gentlemen did not perceive the force of this argument before, when the question was under consideration relative to the freehold qualification. That principle, which in his opinion was the best test that could be resorted to, had been buried. He had attended its obsequies as a mourner to its grave, and it was too late to expect its restoration to life. But if gentlemen were at length convinced of the expediency of introducing "a dissimilarity in the genius" of the constituent branches of the legislature, it was not too late to adopt an expedient that would effectually secure it, and preserve the same balance of power. It would be recollected that senators of the general government are elected by the respective legislatures, and the representatives by the people in the congressional districts.-The counties bear the same relation to the state as the several legislatures do to the general government, and the towns bear the same correspondent relation with the congressional districts. By districting the state, therefore, by towns or otherwise, for the choice of members of assembly, the same relative balance of power would be retained, and the choice brought home more immediately to the doors of the people. And on this subject he could not but put his eye on the county of Richmond, about one-tenth of the population of which consisted of slaves-and even including them, by the same ratio of population, the city of New-York would be entitled to twenty-six members of the assembly. If the blacks were deducted, that county would not, upon the principle of equal representation, be entitled to quite one half a representative;—and yet what would not that county lose if it were not represented? On this subject of division, the committee were told by the honourable gentleman from Örange, that the state was practically divided into single districts now. If that be the case, why should the form of connection be retained after the practice had ceased to exist? In a district composed of nine counties, according to that idea, you give to one county the privilege of nominating a candidate, and compel the other eight to vote for him. A political meeting assembled at Durham, or at the Devil's Half Acre, at the head of the Delaware, dictates the senatorial candidate for distant counties, and if they cannot agree-perhaps they raffle for it. Alr. W. agreed with the gentleman from Orange, that it was unwise to go too far in adopting innovations on the constitution that were not called for by public sentiment, but on this subject he did not think the Convention would outrun the public anticipation. It was desirable to bring home to the knowledge of the constituent, the merits of the candidate. It was by adopting this system that the state of Connecticut, with the most democratic form of governmeat in the union, had been the most stable in its administration. The same man, annually elected, had sometimes represented the town in which he lived for fitty years in succession. And why, and how has this happened? The secret is, that no man is there paid so much for his public services, as to excite the cupidity of his neighbour. He is not, therefore, an object of envy. He is not regarded as a debtor, but a benefactor to the public. Hence it is, that the office of secretary of state there, continued in the family of WYLLYS for near an bundred years, and until the family had almost become extinct. The reward for public services should be a mere indemnity for the expense. The state would not then be exposed to perpetual fluctuation. Here, as soon as a man is warm in |