The CHAIRMAN. It says "negligence," does it not? Mr. SHOEMAKER. Yes, negligence. Now, is it not negligence to pack this stuff improperly? Is it not negligence if it is allowed to remain out in the rain? Mr. BUCHANAN. Certainly it is. Mr. SHOEMAKER. Is it not negligence if it is thrown off the ship and damaged thereby? The CHAIRMAN. You might have to put it out in the rain, you know. When you went to unload the ship, it might be raining, and you could not stop the unloading of the ship because it was raining. Mr. SHOEMAKER. Oh, no; not that. But here is one case that I have in mind the case where the property was left out in the rainstorm all night, when that was not necessary. The CHAIRMAN. The man who left it out would be the man in command. Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes; and he would be negligent. The point is this, so far as I am concerned: If we are going to pay anything that anybody wants to submit from any department without requiring the department to show the negligence and who was negligent, the first thing we know you will be submitting them here without any statement of any kind, and there will be nobody anywhere in the Government service who will care; they will just create any kind of a bill. Mr. SHOEMAKER. I will say that we turn down a great many claims. The CHAIRMAN. You can not turn down too many. Mr. SHOEMAKER. I am asking for information now. The CHAIRMAN. We are not going to decide this case for you, you know, until you come to us officially. Mr. SHOEMAKER. No; but I mean I want to understand definitely whether or not, unless we can show what person in the naval service was responsible for the damage, we need to send any claim here. The CHAIRMAN. No; you need not send any claim here. That is right. Mr. BYRNS. If you find that there was negligence, it seems to me that the ascertainment of the person who is guilty of the negligence is easy. Here is the proposition: If there was negligence on account of packing, you know who had charge of the packing. Mr. SHOEMAKER. How can we tell who did the packing? Mr. BUCHANAN. You know who had the right to have the packing done? Mr. SHOEMAKER. Yes. Mr. BUCHANAN. Then he ought to see that it is well done. The CHAIRMAN. We can not appropriate money unless you comply with the law; that is certain. Mr. BUCHANAN. I think, Mr. Chairman, we should let him go on and adjudicate his cases and bring us a concise, succinct statement of the facts upon which they base the negligence and submit it to us, and then we will decide it. We do not want to decide these things for the future. The CHAIRMAN. I think you are right about that. Mr. SHOEMAKER. As I understand it, Mr. Buchanan, you mean that we shall put in the letter which we refer through the Bureau of the Budget the facts the committee requires? Mr. BUCHANAN. It really ought to be sent in a document. Mr. SHOEMAKER. Well, we do not send them in documents. Of course Congress prints these. We send a letter and the letter is printed in the document. Mr. BUCHANAN. That is right. Mr. SHOEMAKER. Now, you want our letter to contain all the essential facts in each case? Mr. BUCHANAN. The facts upon which you base negligence. WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 1924. POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT. OFFICE OF POSTMASTER GENERAL. STATEMENT OF MR. ROBERT S. REGAR, CHIEF CLERK. CONTINGENT EXPENSES, POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT. FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM FOR CITY POST OFFICE BUILDING. The CHAIRMAN. "For miscellaneous items, including the same objects specified under this head in the Post Office Department appropriation act for the fiscal year 1924," you ask $12,000. What is this estimate for? Mr. REGAR. Mr. Chairman, the supplemental estimate of $12,000 submitted is to cover the cost of a fire-sprinkler system for the new city post-office building. The CHAIRMAN. Is that a deficiency estimate? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir; it is a deficiency. The CHAIRMAN. When was this authorized? Mr. REGAR. It is an estimate for a supplemental appropriation. The CHAIRMAN. Then it is not a deficiency? Mr. REGAR. No, sir; it is a supplemental estimate of $12,000 to cover the cost of a fire-sprinkler system. The CHAIRMAN. What is the importance or necessity of this? Mr. REGAR. In a report dated April 30, 1923, the deputy fire marshal of the District of Columbia makes the following statements relative to his inspection of the new city post-office building, North Capitol Street and Massachusetts Avenue: For the better protection of this building and the large amount of supplies contained therein from fire, I recommend that an automatic sprinkler system be installed in all portions of the basement and subbasements, and that this system be provided with an alarm gong, placed in a prominent location. In my opinion this sprinkler system is very essential, for the reason that should a fire occur in this portion of the building, members of the fire department would experience much difficulty in fighting same, as there is but very little ventilation and consequently little chance for heat and smoke to escape and in all probability in fighting fire in the basement or subbasements of this building firemen would be overcome by smoke and heat. The CHAIRMAN. That report was made on April 30, 1923? The CHAIRMAN. Why was it not submitted for our consideration before this time? Why is it now submitted in a deficiency bill? It has not been considered very urgent, has it? Mr. REGAR. It has, Mr. Chairman. When I took charge, or assumed duty on May 1, 1923, I looked into the matter very carefully, and I included this item in our regular estimates, but the Bureau of the Budget thought that it was so essential that we should submit it as a supplemental estimate. Now, at the request of the department, the Globe Automatic Sprinkler Co., of Baltimore, made a survey of the basement and sub-basements in the city post office building, and they have advised us that it will cost approximately $12,000 to install the sprinkler system recommended by the deputy fire marshal. In this connection, attention should be called to the fact that most of the space in the basement and sub-basements of the city post office building are occupied by the Division of Equipment and Supplies for the storage of thousands of dollars worth of supplies used in the Postal Service. The CHAIRMAN. How long has this building been occupied? The CHAIRMAN. Has anybody ever thought about installing a sprinkler system before? Mr. REGAR. Apparently not, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. It is a strictly fireproof building, is it not? The CHAIRMAN. How many watchmen do you have there? Mr. REGAR. We have in the new city post-office building 15 watchmen. The CHAIRMAN. What do you know about the practice of putting sprinkler systems in strictly fireproof buildings? Mr. REGAR. Well, of course, I would follow the recommendation of the deputy fire marshal who is an expert on fire hazards. Further, it is the practice of the business world to install sprinkler systems in fireproof buildings where large quantities of valuable supplies or equipment are located. For your information I would state that the value of supplies located in the basement and subbasements of the new city post-office building is approximately $1,055,082. The CHAIRMAN. Have you taken any bids on this installation? Mr. REGAR. No, sir; we just found out what it would cost, approximately. The CHAIRMAN. How did you find out? Mr. REGAR. I have a letter here from the Globe Automatic Sprinkler Co. The CHAIRMAN. Are they promoting the installation of this system? Is it a fact that they promoted this matter, and called it to the attention of the department? Mr. REGAR. No, sir; the deputy fire marshal called it to our attention. The CHAIRMAN. Who called it to his attention? Mr. REGAR. About a year ago we asked the fire marshal to make an inspection of the building, and to submit any suggestions that he cared to make, and this is included in the report. He not only recommended the installation of the sprinkler system, but he recommended other improvements which we have made. The CHAIRMAN. Who would have charge of this installation-the postmaster or the chief clerk? Mr. REGAR. The chief clerk would have charge of it. The CHAIRMAN. Does he have charge of such installations all over the country? Mr. REGAR. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. This is the same as post offices elsewhere in the country, is it not? Mr. REGAR. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is it a different sort of post office? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The post offices throughout the country are under the jurisdiction of the supervising architect, and this particular one is under the chief clerk and superintendent of the building. The CHAIRMAN. Is not this post office in the same category with other post offices? Mr. REGAR. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Why not? Mr. REGAR. This building is under the jurisdiction of the chief clerk and superintendent of buildings of the Post Office Department. It must be remembered that we have in that new city post office building departmental employees to the number of about 400. The CHAIRMAN. Some of the departmental employees are employed down there? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The division of dead letters, the divisions of postal savings, stamps, and registered mails, the division of equipment and supplies, and the division of topography are located in that building. That is the reason I made reference to the supplies that are stored in there. The CHAIRMAN. Are the people employed there allowed to smoke during office hours or during work hours? Mr. REGAR. We have this unwritten law in the department, that if anybody objects to smoking in an office, no smoking is allowed there. Of course, we do not allow smoking in the basement and subbasements where the supplies are stored. The CHAIRMAN. Is there any order to that effect? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir; there is an order put up forbidding smoking. The CHAIRMAN. Is it adhered to or observed? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir; so far as I know it is adhered to, because I have not received complaints, and the watchmen are given strict instructions to see that all notices and orders are carried out. The CHAIRMAN. The watchmen themselves do not smoke, do they? Mr. REGAR. No, sir. Of course, the watchmen make their rounds every hour and punch their check clocks, but, inasmuch as the deputy fire marshal recommended this installation The CHAIRMAN (interposing). You do not consider this a deficiency? Mr. REGAR. It is a supplemental estimate. The CHAIRMAN. Why did you not include it in your general esti mates? Mr. REGAR. This item was included in our general estimates, but the Bureau of the Budget was of the opinion that it was of such importance that it should be included in a supplemental estimate instead of in the regular estimates, and I have followed the recommendation of the Bureau of the Budget. Mr. LEE. Is this sprinkler system only desired for the basements? Mr. REGAR. Only for the basement and subbasements. The CHAIRMAN. It seems to me that with a strictly fireproof building it would be hardly essential, and the building has been there for 10 years without it. Nobody has ever suggested it before, it appears. Did the fire department ever inspect this building before? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How frequently do they inspect it? Mr. REGAR. Whenever we make the request. The CHAIRMAN. This is the first time they have recommended a fire-sprinkler system? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You are quite sure that this fire-sprinkler company did not promote the suggestion. Mr. REGAR. No, sir; they did not. This report of the deputy fire marshal was submitted on April 30, 1923. The CHAIRMAN. You have read that. Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir; Under date of June 11, 1923, they wrote us a letter, and I have the letter here. The CHAIRMAN. Whom is that letter from? Mr. REGAR. The letter is from the Globe Automatic Sprinkler Co. The CHAIRMAN. As soon as the fire marshal made the inspection and recommendation, they wrote you the letter? Mr. REGAR. We asked for it. The CHAIRMAN. They made that estimate in response to your request? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You have not asked for bids on it, have you? The CHAIRMAN. Therefore, you do not know whether it would cost $12,000 or $50,000. Is there any other fire-sprinkler system except that of the Globe Co. ? Mr. REGAR. I understand there are about half a dozen throughout the country. Of course, if the appropriation was granted, we would send out specifications to those people inviting bids, and, of course, the lowest responsible bidder would get the contract. The CHAIRMAN. This Globe Co. would not necessarily be the successful one? Mr. REGAR. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What do you know personally about the importance of the installation of this system? Mr. REGAR. As I stated a few minutes ago, I find that there are in the basement and subbasements throughout the year about $1,055,000 worth of supplies. The CHAIRMAN. You have always had them there, have you not? Mr. REGAR. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. So there is nothing new about that. Mr. REGAR. No, sir. I am coming up here asking for this because the fire marshal recommended it. The CHAIRMAN. How often did you say the fire marshal has made examinations of this building? Mr. REGAR. The fire marshal makes an examination of this building whenever we request it. |