The next bill is the large bill of the reporters for certain portions of the work in the Morse case, amounting to $1,411.20. Another one is a bill of $239 for taking a prisoner from the Federal penitentiary at Atlanta and transporting him to Washington and return to testify, on a writ of habeas corpus ad testificandum.

Another item is the bill of the reporters in the case against Raymond Gray; and there is also a bill of the Underwood Typewriter Co. for repairing Judge Siddons's typewriter.

The CHAIRMAN. How much was the bill for repairing the typewriter?

Mr. KENNARD. $15.50.

The CHAIRMAN. It must have been badly worn.

Mr. KENNARD. That makes a total of $2,024.53.

The CHAIRMAN. You had a deficiency already amounting to $15,500 for 1923, in addition to the regular appropriation.

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That makes a total of $38,000.

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir: which with this $2,000 makes a total expense for 1923 of about $40,000.

This throws a considerable light on the supplemental estimate we are submitting for the current fiscal year of $21,000. The appropriation for the current year was only $20,000, and at the close of business on December 31, it was already overincumbered.

A portion of the expense of the Morse case was incurred in this fiscal year, quite a considerable portion, and the small appropriation of $20,000 has already been exhausted.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this total of $21,000 that you are requesting obligated?

Mr. KENNARD. The amount obligated at the close of business on December 31, on a six-month basis, was $20,573.97. That is, the total liability, as we calculate liabilities, on that date was $26,685.47. But from that total liability, in order to get a six-month basis, we deduct one-half of the annual allotment for heat, light, and power and telephones, and that reduces it to $20,572.93. As a matter of fact, the money is practically all expended.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean the total of $21,000?

Mr. KENNARD. The total already appropriated, of $20,000. No portion of the supplemental estimate is expended, of course, but it is a part of the incumbrance.

As I was about to say, a portion of the reporting in the Morse case was executed in 1924; nearly $4,000 was expended for reporting in the Morse case, subsequent to June 30, 1923. In addition to that, we have had some other unusual expenses.

The CHAIRMAN. What are they?

Mr. KENNARD. The court ordered the payment of Mr. Harper, examiner in chancery, who has been at work in connection with the interests of the United States in some lands on the Potomac River during this fiscal year; although he has been at work for a number of years, under the established rules his entire compensation of $1,022.40 must be paid from the appropriation for 1924.

We also have had to authorize reporting the case of the United States against Barry. That is the man who killed a conductor at the Union Station. It is estimated it will cost $2,200 for reporting this case alone, and there are other important cases, I am advised.

Mr. DAVIS. During the years 1922, 1923, and 1924, has not the District subcommittee given you every dollar you requested in the Budget and otherwise?

Mr. KENNARD. No, sir.

Mr. DAVIS. I do not know about last year; I was not here.

Mr. KENNARD. The Budget figure for this current year was $22,500 and Congress appropriated $20,000.

Mr. DAVIS. That is in the last bill, for 1924?

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir.

Mr. DAVIS. What about 1923?

Mr. KENNARD. In 1923 the Budget figure was $30,000, and Congress appropriated, in the first instance, $22,500, and afterwards gave us $15,500.

Mr. DAVIS. My impression was that so far as these courts are concerned, the regular District appropriation bill has always given you practically all that has been estimated for and submitted to us.

The CHAIRMAN. There is no way you can control the expenditures in connection with these matters, is there?

Mr. KENNARD. Only by making the very best possible contracts for reporting and by curtailing minor items as much as possible.

We pay not only for reporting cases, but we also pay, by transfer, to the Department of the Interior, or to Colonel Sherrill, about $12,000 for heating the courthouse.

The CHAIRMAN. For heat and light?

Mr. KENNARD. For heat. It is piped over from the Interior Department plant and the courthouse building. This item consumes a large portion of the appropriation.

The next major item is for reporting cases; and in addition to that there are minor expenses.

Mr. DAVIS. Quite a number of unexpected cases have happened? Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir; and in addition to that important cases are very much in evidence at the present time in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia. We expect the expenses on that account this year will be at least as great as they were in the preceding year.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there more courts at work?

Mr. KENNARD. No; I think the number of judges is the same. Mr. DAVIS. I think they have increased the number of judges. I think they keep one of the judges from the Court of Customs Appeals at work all the time, practically, and sometimes two of those judges. I think there are two of those judges that are kept there at work nearly all the time.

Mr. KENNARD. If the marshal were here, he would be able to tell you about that exactly, but he is unable to be present on account of the death of his brother.

SUPPORT OF CONVICTS.

The CHAIRMAN. For the support, maintenance, and transportation of convicts transferred from the District of Columbia, etc., you are asking $10,105.58 for the fiscal year 1923.

Mr. KENNARD. This amount is needed simply to complete the settlement of the last transfer account in favor of the Atlanta Penitentiary. It does not represent an actual expenditure of money, but a transfer or refund to the Federal institution for the support of District

of Columbia prisoners. It is necessary to make this refund in order to have the effect of charging the District of Columbia with 60 per cent of the expense.

The CHAIRMAN. This is for prisoners sent to Atlanta or other Federal prisons from the District of Columbia?

Mr. KENNARD. To Atlanta and Leavenworth, mainly. A few of the District prisoners are cared for in other institutions.

Mr. VOTAW. All of the women are.

The CHAIRMAN. It took $10,105.58 more than the appropriation for 1923 amounted to?

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir; this is an ascertained liability.

The CHAIRMAN. Indicating that there were more prisoners that year than usual?

Mr. KENNARD. The expense has been increasing and it now runs at the rate of from $180,000 to $190,000 a year, whereas in former years it was about $160,000. There has practically been no change in the per diem cost and the increase is due to a larger number of prisoners. The CHAIRMAN. What is the per diem cost?

Mr. VOTAW. It runs from 85 to 90 cents a day for subsistence and other things. That covers guards and clothing. We just divide it up. We know what it costs for the whole number of prisoners and we just charge the District of Columbia for its share.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1924.

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR.

BUREAU OF IMMIGRATION.

STATEMENTS OF MR. W. W. HUSBAND, COMMISSIONER GENERAL OF IMMIGRATION, AND MR. HENRY H. CURRAN, COMMISSIONER OF IMMIGRATION, ELLIS ISLAND, N. Y.

ELLIS ISLAND, N. Y.

ALTERATIONS, REPAIR, AND REMODELING OF BUILDINGS.

The CHAIRMAN. You are here before us with a request for $326,000 for various purposes, including repairs and remodeling of buildings and the purchase of supplies. You have $100,000 for this purpose in the bill that becomes effective the 1st of July. How do you differentiate this from that?

Mr. HUSBAND. The $100,000 in the bill is for all immigration stations.

The CHAIRMAN. And this is just for New York?

Mr. HUSBAND. This is for extraordinary repairs at Ellis Island.

CRITICISM OF CONDITIONS EXISTING ON ISLAND.

The CHAIRMAN. Before you enter into the details of this item, tell us what general situation emphasizes the necessity for any expenditures between now and the 1st of July for this purpose.

Mr. HUSBAND. I was going to ask if I could do that, Mr. Chairman, and then so far as the items are concerned let you talk with Major Curran, who lives at Ellis Island every day.

Generally speaking, this is an effort to secure some money for certain repairs in order to eliminate the sources of very just criticism that has been leveled at Ellis Island, not only from this country but from all over the world, as you probably know.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it not about as good as or better than most of the places that they have in other countries in the world? It is better than anything I have ever seen in any other country; I will say that.

Mr. HUSBAND. Here is the main difficulty with Ellis Island. It was built as an immigration station. It has become a hotel. It was built as a place where immigrants should come for examination, and where a limited number would be detained overnight, or perhaps longer; and it served that purpose very well. It has been necessary, especially during the last two years, as the laws have become more restrictive, to detain people there for two or three weeks, sometimes longer, in large numbers. I think I can put it this way: The immigrant who stays at Ellis Island only a few hours gets the best of it. It is very comfortable. The immigrant who is detained there longer gets the worst of it. This is an attempt to remodel the buildings so that the immigrant who passes through rapidly will do so in comfort, and with greater convenience to the officers of the Immigration Service, while some of the room that is now utilized almost for show purposes will be made available for the poor people who have to stay there longer, for their comfort during the day, and better places for them to sleep during the night; the main purpose, as I said, being to eliminate the cause of what I think we all admit is a very just criticism. The CHAIRMAN. What is the thing that justly subjects you to criticism?

Mr. HUSBAND. The "herding of people in the Black Hole of Calcutta," is the common remark. We want to get them out of the "Black Hole of Calcutta" into a place about which there can be no complaint; and such a place can be made available with a reasonably small expenditure of money. Then, as to the sleeping quarters, we want to get them out of the "cages." They speak of sleeping cages, which is true.

in

us.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by that? Just explain it to

Mr. HUSBAND. The bunks are in tiers-two and sometimes three. At the ends and between every tier is wire netting, so that the occupant of the bunk climbs into what is really a cage, with one side open only. Now, that was put there for a purpose, for the protection of the alien himself, but it has become almost a world scandal. We want to clean out those cages and substitute a better arrangement.

The CHAIRMAN. Tell us how it becomes a scandal.

Mr. HUSBAND. It comes about in this way: We have been obliged to detain at Ellis Island, under the quota limit law, the passport regulations, and the more restrictive immigration laws of recent years, classes of people who were perfectly desirable from a personal standpoint. They get the ear of the public in the countries from which they come, and their friends here get the ear of the American public, and their complaints appear in letters published in Australia, South Africa, Scotland, Sweden, and all over the world; letters in which they describe the awful conditions that they have encountered

at Ellis Island. If you wanted to insert some of them in the record I would be glad to furnish a dozen typical complaints.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not want to know what they think about it: I want to know what you have to say about it.

Mr. HUSBAND. What I have to say about it is that I can not say, in reply to those criticisms, that it is not so, because it is so.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, if they tell the truth the statements are not so awful.

Mr. HUSBAND. Well, they tell the truth very largely, Mr. Madden. When they talk about the indignities heaped upon them by our officers that is not so as a rule.

The CHAIRMAN. We can not spend any money for changing the partitions of rooms that will stop that thing.

Mr. HUSBAND. No; but it is the fact of detention, and I will admit that there is a good deal other than the condition of detention which troubles them.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, you have got the detention. That is one thing that we can not remedy. These people are coming in. They must be detained. The question is, are they being detained under conditions that are justified? That is the question.

Mr. HUSBAND. That is the question; and I will say very frankly that they are not.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, what about the indignities that they complain about?

Mr. HUSBAND. Well, so far as indignities are concerned, that is another matter. Anyone, I think, who is detained under the law, no matter what the law is, would be inclined to feel that they suffer indignities from those who have to do with their detention.

The CHAIRMAN. Are the statements they make justified?
Mr. HUSBAND. Occasionally.

The CHAIRMAN. What is done in cases where they are justified? Mr. HUSBAND. Where they are justified, the person who was responsible for it usually seeks another position.

The CHAIRMAN. What kind of indignities do they complain about? Mr. HUSBAND. The usual indignities. Mr. Curran knows more about those things than I do. They would include such things as pushing about, herding, yelling, waiving arms, driving, and that sort of thing.

INCREASE IN DETENTION OF IMMIGRANTS-CHARACTER OF IMMIGRANTS ARRIVING.

The CHAIRMAN. That leads me to ask you this question: Is it necessary now, with the restricted immigration, to detain more people at Ellis Island than when we had unrestricted immigration? Mr. HUSBAND. Absolutely.

The CHAIRMAN. Why?

Mr. HUSBAND. Because of the restrictive character of the law. The CHAIRMAN. That does not answer my question very well, does it?

Mr. HUSBAND. In a general way, let me say this: When three or four thousand immigrants or more were coming through Ellis Island almost daily there was no quota law, there was no literacy test, there was no passport regulation or anything of that sort, and the whole system was established on a well-ordered basis. But the war upset it, and people came looking for friends rather than coming to friends.