Male pensioners, Metropolitan Police Department, District of Columbia--Continued.

Sullivan, Jeremiah F.
Smith, William E..

Stringfellow, James R..
Smith, Hiliary M.
Tilling, Andrew.
Thorn, Homer R.
Turner, Henry..
Thrift, Richard T..
Thompson, Augustus...
Thompson, Albert C..
Trensi, Otis.

Upperman, Richard C.
Vander Schaaf, Rufus.
Vanderwalker, Louis S.
Wannall, Harry C..
Wright, Louis E.
Willis, Charles B.
Willingham, Charles H.
White, George C.
Watson, Robert C.
Walker, Edward A
Wilson, William S.
Wortz, Edward.
West, Robert F
Wheeler, Thomas S..
Weedon, Richard E.
Williams, George H.

Wheeler, William W

Walsh, Joseph G.

Wech, George.

Yates, Richard C.

Statement relative to retired members of the District of Columbia fire department

Statement relative to retired members of the District of Columbia fire department now on the pension roll-Continued.

The CHAIRMAN. What are the conditions under which a man who is on the retired list ceases to be a member of the police force?

Mr. OYSTER. Occasionally they desert, and we do not recognize them any more. When they desert they very often come back and apply for reinstatement.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by that?

Mr. OYSTER. They quit their posts or leave without permission. They are supposed to give us 30 days' notice when they want to resign. The CHAIRMAN. Sometimes they do not do that, do they?

Mr. OYSTER. Sometimes they take French leave and disappear, and when they make application for retirement, or want to resign within 30 days, we give consideration to the reasons why they want to retire. The CHAIRMAN. If a man resigns, can he go on the retired list? Mr. OYSTER. Not without serving a certain number of years.

The CHAIRMAN. I thought Mr. Donovan said he could not go on the retired list on his own application.

Mr. DONOVAN. No, sir; he can apply for retirement, and if his physical condition, in the opinion of the police surgeons, is such as to justify his retirement, the commissioners may retire him.

The CHAIRMAN. Did the board ever refuse to retire a man under those circumstances?

Mr. DONOVAN. Very frequently.

The CHAIRMAN. How does a woman get on the retired list?

Mr. DONOVAN. In case of the death of any policeman or fireman, while in the service, before or after retirement from the service, leaving a widow, the widow is entitled to a pension of not to exceed $60 a month and the children under 16 years of age are entitled to a pension not to exceed $10 a month each.

The CHAIRMAN. They are much better off than the widows and children of Army officers.

Mr. DONOVAN. The widows are allowed $60 a month.

The CHAIRMAN. That is according to law, is it?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes. sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Not according to the board's dictum?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, sir. The law fixes the maximum pension and the commissioners exercise a judgment within the limit, and determine the monthly rate of pension allowed in each case.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they ever give less than the maximum?

Mr. DONOVAN. The rule is to allow the maximum, and practically every pensioner on the roll is receiving the maximum.

The CHAIRMAN. You say $85,000 is needed now to take care of the relief necessary under the authorization?

Mr. DONOVAN. Until the close of the fiscal year; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. How do you arrive at that amount?

Mr. DONOVAN. Our present authorization for the entire fiscal year is $330,194.52. We have expended during the first six months $222,000, and that leaves us a balance as of January 1 of $107,000. On the basis of the monthly pension roll of $33,500, and this is subject to increase because there are several retirement cases now pending, it would require for the next six months $34,000 a month, or $204,000, against which we have $108,000.

The CHAIRMAN. You said a moment ago you had $107,000.
Mr. DONOVAN. I mean $107,000, leaving a shortage of $97,000.
The CHAIRMAN. You are only asking for $85,000.

Mr. DONOVAN. That is because about $12,000 will be taken care of by the monthly deductions from salaries.

Mr. DAVIS. Those figures are as of the 1st of January?

Mr. DONOVAN. I am speaking of the condition at the end of the first six months and figuring the conditions for the second six months on the basis of the first six months.

The CHAIRMAN. You are adding to the $330,000 the $12,000 which you will receive?

Mr. DONOVAN. In addition to the payment of pensions, we also pay out of this fund funeral expenses and hospital and surgical expenses for members injured in line of duty, and expenses of this character amount to about $25,000 a year.

Mr. DAVIS. That is after retirement?

Mr. DONOVAN. No; that is for the men in active service.

The CHAIRMAN. As a matter of fact, the men who have been in the service are about as fit when they get out as when they were in the service, are they not?

Mr. DONOVAN. If you set up a comparison of what the employees may receive under the employees retirement act and what firemen and policemen may receive from this fund, it is found the policemen and firemen are the best pensioned people in the District of Columbia.

Mr. BUCHANAN. What is the total amount of the retirement fund? The CHAIRMAN. They have only $107,000 on hand now. They need $204,000 to apply between the 1st of January and the end of the fiscal year; is that true?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The pension charges made to the recipients of the pensions only amounts to about one-twelfth of the total pension fund?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BUCHANAN. So they have to increase the sources of revenue or run behind on the year?

Mr. DONOVAN. The United States pays no part of the pension fund at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. That comes out of general taxes of the District? Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Anybody can go on the retirement roll when he makes application?

Mr. DONOVAN. I did not say that.

The CHAIRMAN. You said the next thing to it.

Mr. DONOVAN. If a man is physically or mentally incapacitated for active service the board of police and fire surgeons has to certify his condition to the commissioners, and the commissioners may then place him on the pension roll.

The CHAIRMAN. And do?

Mr. DONOVAN. I think there is no question about it but that the board of police and fire surgeons are very careful to see that only really meritorious cases are approved.

MEMBERS OF BOARD OF POLICE AND FIRE SURGEONS.

The CHAIRMAN. Who are the board of police and fire surgeons ? Mr. DONOVAN. You mean what are their names?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. DONOVAN. Doctor Kilroy, Doctor Brandenberg, Doctor Borden, and Doctor Murphy.

The CHAIRMAN. How are they selected?

Mr. DONOVAN. They are appointed by the commissioners under civil-service regulations.

The CHAIRMAN. How long do they serve?

Mr. DONOVAN. Their appointment is at the pleasure of the commissioners.

The CHAIRMAN. Can they apply for retirement, too?

Mr. DONOVAN. No, sir; they are not members of the police or fire departments.

The CHAIRMAN. What do they get for the services they render? Mr. DONOVAN. Their compensation is $1,840, including the bonus. The CHAIRMAN. A year?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. How many times a month do they have to act?

Mr. DONOVAN. They meet every day from 10 o'clock until 11.30 or 12 o'clock, or for such length of time each day as might be required, and they are subject to call for attendance on policemen and firemen at all times.

The CHAIRMAN. They render medical service to these men while they are on active duty?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes; they render such service to members of the police and fire departments and the park police. They are entitled to the services of these doctors without charge.

The CHAIRMAN. And their families?

Mr. DONOVAN. Not their families, but the members of the departments and the park police.

The CHAIRMAN. How do they differentiate between the men and their families?

Mr. DONOVAN. I presume they use their judgment in a case of that kind. There is no objection, if a police surgeon wants to attend the members of the family of a policeman or fireman. There could be no objection to that. But the members of the board of police and fire surgeons are required to attend members of the two departments without charge.

The CHAIRMAN. And they get $1,840 a year?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir; including the bonus, and they earn every dollar of it.

The CHAIRMAN. That is $1,600 without the bonus?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they have any other practice?

Mr. DONOVAN. Oh, yes; they are all general practicing physicians. Doctor Borden is a surgeon.

The CHAIRMAN. This is a sort of pocket-money job, is it?

Mr. DONOVAN. They actually earn their salary and a great deal more. They render constant, daily service.

ALLOWANCE TO PRINCIPALS OF GRADE SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

The CHAIRMAN. The first item, on page 19, is:

For allowance to principals of grade school buildings, for services rendered as such, in addition to their grade salary, to be paid in strict conformity with the provisions of the act entitled "An act to fix and regulate the salaries of teachers, school officers, and other employees of the board of education of the District of Columbia," approved June 20, 1906, $17,390.

That is something that the chairman of that subcommittee probably knows a great deal more about than I do, and I will ask Mr. Davis to handle it.

Mr. DAVIS. What is the service rendered for which you want this additional money?