The CHAIRMAN - The Chair will inform the, enumeration of the inhabitants of the State shall gentleman that his amendment is not before the committee until the vote is reconsidered.

Mr. SEAVER-I understood the gentleman from Rockland [Mr. Conger] to be on the point of taking his seat, when the gentleman from Wyoming [Mr. Frank] rose to ask him a question. I hope he may be permitted to proceed.

Mr. SCHELL-I hope the gentleman will let me complete my amendment.

be taken, under the direction of the Legislature, in the year 1868 and in the year 1875, and at the end of every ten years after the last mentioned year; and the Legislature_shall, at the first session after the return of the enumeration in the year 1868, and upon the returu of every subsequent enumeratfon, apportion the State into thirtytwo districts, which shall be numbered from one to thirty-two inclusive; that each district shall contain as near as may be an equal number of inhabitants who are citizens, and shall remain Mr. E. BROOKS-I call the gentleman from unaltered until the return of another enumeration, Onondaga [Mr. Alvord] to order. He is not in and shall consist of contiguous territory, No his place and has not a right to call any member county shall be divided in the formation of a to order. senate district except such county shall be The queston was put on the motion to recon-equitably entitled to two or more Senators. sider the vote by which the amendment of Mr. Schell was lost, and it was declared lost.

Mr. ALVORD-I call the gentleman [Mr. Schell] to order.

The CHAIRMAN-The question now recurs on the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks] as amended.

Mr. BICKFORD-I call now for the reading of my amendment.

Mr. SCHELL-I now propose the original paper I presented with this addition as an amend

ment

The CHAIRMAN-The Chair is of opinion that it is not now in order.

Mr. CONGER-I appeal from the decision of the Chair.

Mr. SCHOONMAKER-I move that the committee do now arise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The question was put on the motion of Mr. Schoonmaker, and it was declared lost on a division by a vote of 29 to 62.

The districts, as the same are now constituted shall remain until the enumeration and apportionment as herein provided shall be made and the first election under this Constitution shall take place in 1869."

Mr. SCHELL-This is an amendment to Mr. Flagler's amendment.

The CHAIRMAN - Mr. Flagler's amendment is not now before the Convention. The amendment now before the Convention is the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks], as amended. Does the gentleman from New York [Mr. Schell], move this as an amendment to that.

Mr. SCHELL - Yes, sir.

The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Schell, and it was declared lost.

A count was called for, when the ayes were were taken and reported at 24.

The noes were called for, and delegates arose.
The CHAIRMAN - It is evidently lost.

Mr. CONGER-I wish to take an appeal from the decision of the Chair on the offer made by the Mr. E. BROOKS-I insist that the negative gentleman from New York, Mr. Schell, to present vote shall be counted. I think it is very doubta new proposition. Unless the Chair misunder-ful whether there is a quorum present. stood the gentleman from New York [Mr Schell]; he presented a further proposition. The CHAIRMAN - The Chair understood it was an amendmert to his former amendment that was lost.

Mr. SCHELL-I now offer the amendment in the hands of the Secretary, with the addition of the words I suggested.

The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment, as follows:

The question was again put on Mr. Schell's amendment, and, on a division, it was declared lost by a vote of 24 to 76.

Mr. TAPPEN-The hour of eleven has arrived; the thermometer is at 81°, and the stenographers have used up their pencils. [Laughter.] I, therefore, move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The question was put on the motion of Mr. Tappen, and it was declared lost, on a division, by a vote of 42 to 60.

Mr. SCHOONMAKER I offer the following amendment. The object of it is to have three Senators in each district, and to have one Senator elected in each district every year. The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment, as follows:

"Strike out the words 'thirty-two' whenever they occur, and insert fifteen,' so as to make fifteen senate districts. Strike out the word 'one' whenever it occurs as designating number of Senators for each district, and insert three." "Strike out four years' whenever it occurs designating terms of office, and insert three years.'"

The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Strike out after the words "four years' "and Schoonmaker, and it was declared lost, on a diviinsert and shall be constituted as follows: an sion, by a vote of 34 to 66.

call me to order, he not being in his place.

Mr. BOWEN-If it is in order I beg to offer an Mr. ALVORD-I rise to a point of order; the amendment to the amendment of the gentleman gentleman from Erie [Mr. Hatch] has no right to from Richmond [Mr. E. Brooks] by arranging terms of office so that one-quarter of the Senators shall go out every year instead of one-half every alternate year.

-

Mr. S. TOWNSEND-Not having the printed proceedings before me, Mr Chairman, I am unable to say exactly where my proposition should come The CHAIRMAN - It is. in; but the idea I wish to elucidate is this: Mr. BOWEN - The amendment is as follows: serious objections have been made to the census Amend by striking out that part providing for of 1865 in the State, the grounds of which the time when the term of office of the Senators have been alluded to by the gentleman from first elected shall expire and insert as follows: New York [Mr. Schell]. We have, I believe, "The term of office of those Senators elected for recognized the impartiality, validity, and cor the first, fifth, ninth, thirteenth, seventeenth, rectness of the United States census, and have twenty-first, twenty-fifth and twenty-ninth dis- confidently referred to it in our operations in tricts shall expire in one year, and the term of this State. As indicating the want of reliabil those elected for the second, sixth, tenth, four-ity in the census of 1865, I will refer to the fact teenth, eighteenth, twenty-second, twenty-sixth that the breaking out of the war caused a partial and thirtieth districts shall expire in two years, cessation of foreign immigration to this country. and the term of those elected for the third, But the increased demand for labor caused by so seventh, eleventh, fifteenth, nineteenth, twenty- large a number of men being absent in the third, twenty-seventh and thirty-first districts army, caused a tendency on the part of shall expire in three years, and the term of those emigration, both foreign and home, toward elected in the remaining districts shall expire in our larger cities, where the demand for four years. labor was most manifest, and where parties from other localities came in quest of labor. This tendency of unemployed persons toward our large cities, caused a great demand for dwellings, so great that it was impossible, in 1865 particularly, to get a house without paying most exorbitant rents, and even then vast numbers of people were compelled to board; and yet with these facts prominent to every man residing in the city of New York, there was an actual diminution in the population from 1860 to 1865, as shown by the census of 1865. The fact is incredible; and it has been developed that there were large districts which the census-takers omitted to visit entirely. I think there should be no disposition to hesitate to make restitution to the city of New York at the end of five years, of what it is entitled to, if anything, over the representation it now has in the Legislature; and that can be determined by the census taken by the Government of the United States.

I will detain the committee but a moment. One object in extending the term of office of Senators is that they may have experience, and another object, which is equally important, is that there should be more permanency to the Senate. The amendment I have offered, I think, will effect the purpose more effectually than the one proposed by my colleague.

The question was put on the amendment of Mr. Bowen, and it was declared lost.

Mr. CHESEBRO - I move that the committee rise and report progress.

SEVERAL DELEGATES-No! no!
Mr. CHESEBRO-I say Yes.

The question was put on the motion of Mr. Chesebro, and it was declared lost, on a division, by a vote of 23 to 68.

Mr. S. TOWNSEND-I believe that the committee have several times decided in favor of thirty-two senate districts. The main objection to the proposition offered by the gentleman from New York [Mr. Schell] is the expense of taking a new census of the State, apart from the 'regular routine in reference to taking the State census. I have an amendment which I propose to introduce somewhere in the article [laughter], and I would like to have the Chair inform me how the article stands at present that I may know where to introduce the amendment.

The PRESIDENT - The Secretary will read the section as at present amended.

The SECRETARY read as requested; "the State shall be divided into thirty-two districts." Mr. S. TOWNSEND-Right there I propose to bring in this proposition:

Provided, That after the U. S. Census of 1870 is made, the Legislature at its next session shall make a distribution of the State [laughter] into thirty-two contiguous Senate disricts upon the basis of the said census.

Mr. ALVORD-I would like to ask the gentlemau from Queens [Mr. S. Townsend] a question. Mr. HATCH-I rise to a point of order. The gentleman from Onondaga has no right to speak he is not in his place. [Laughter.]

The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. S. Townsend, and it was declared lost, on a division, by a vote of 23 to 64.

Mr. TAPPEN-As I believe the Convention can arrive at no practical result by further continuing the session to-night, I move the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

The question was put on the motion of Mr. Tappen, and it was declared lost, on a division, by a vote of 30 to 61.

Mr. E. A. BROWN-I move to reconsider the vote by which the term of office of Senator was fixed at four years, and I desire to have the motion lie on the table.

The CHAIRMAN - The Chair is of the opinion that the motion is not in order. There has been no vote taken on that distinct proposition by itself if the Chair recollects aright.

Mr. E. A. BROWN-The vote was taken on precisely that proposition.

The CHAIRMAN-It was taken on a division of the question. The motion to reconsider a part of the proposition, which was taken on a division, in the opinion of the Chair, is not in order.

Mr. MERRITT - I suggest that the object de- | sentatives. As I said the other day, I conceive sired by the gentleman can be reached in com- it to be desirable, that at every election there mittee by a motion to make a term the least term. should be as many inducements as practicable, We have already settled the matter of the four- to bring out the voters to the polls. By this years term. In order to reconsider, as I under-pending proposition, as amended, we have all the stand it, the gentleman must couple other things important officers elected in the years having even with it; and if he makes a motion to reconsider numbers, and a few unimportant officers elected he must take the vote now. It cannot lie on the in the years having odd numbers. So that electable. tors will feel comparatively little interest in the Mr. E. A. BROWN-I rely upon the Chair en-elections held in the years having odd numbers, tirely for my parliamentary law; and if the Chair is of the opinion that the motion cannot be taken in order, I will not press it.

and nearly all the interest will center about the elections held in years having the even numbers. I am in favor of having Senators elected one year Mr. WEED-It seems to me that the motion and Congressmen the next, as now, in order to of the gentleman who last addressed the create an interest among the people at every clecConvention [Mr. E. A. Brown], is a proper tion, and thus call out as full a vote as practicable. one. Although a vote was taken on a Mr. Chairman, as there seems to be a disposition division it was decided on a separate and inde- to stay here to-night, I wish to say a word or two pendent vote of the Convention. And the Chair pertinent to this particular proposition. Speakman, if he will think for a moment on the sub-ing for myself, from the position in which I ject, will, I think, see that two of the proposi- was placed by the distinguished gentleman tions might have been voted down and the other from Kings [Mr. Van Cott] when he argued to carried, or one voted down and the other this committee that I had, on a previous day, two carried, and it would have been the action made a fallacious argument in support of the of the Convention. If one of these propositions proposition that Senators should be elected by had been voted down and thrown out, certainly the proper and the only motion that could have been made would have been to reconsider the one lost. In reinstating the one that was lost you would not have to throw out the two that were carried. It seems to me, therefore, the motion of the gentleman is proper-to reconsider the vote by which the Convention had inserted "four" instead of "two" years, as the term for which Senators shall be elected.

Mr. E. A. BROWN-If I make a motion that is debatable, could I say what I desire to say, and assign reasons for the motion made?

The CHAIRMAN-The opinion of the Chair is as it stated, but it is willing to be corrected by the committee. The opinion of the Chair is that when a question is divided, and a vote is taken on one part it does not entitle the gentleman to move to reconsider the vote on that part. But when the vote is taken on the entire question, the motion to reconsider must be upon that question.

single districts. That portion of my argument to which he alluded was made by me in answer to a suggestion that I read in the newspapers, and which has been repeated over and over again on this floor, both before and since I mado these remarks, in some form or other, that the larger the district from which a Senator was elected the better was the Senator. The fair interpretation of these words I take to be that the prospect of electing able and honorable Senators will be more certain if they are elected from large districts than from small ones--in other words, the larger the constituency the better the Senator. In answer to that proposition and for the purpose of combatting it, I said that if it was true, why not make four districts or two districts in the State. or elect each Senator from the whole State. For, if the argument is true that the larger the district the better the representative, it is our bounden duty to take such measures as will give us the best Senator to discharge the duties of that important office. It will be better for the people of this State and so far as they frm a portion of this nation-and of mankind it will be for the benefit of the whole of mankind. I say, if that argument were true and correct we should adopt it to the full extent, in order to realize the greatest Mr. E. A. BROWN-Then I move as an amend- benefits and to accomplish the most beneficial rement to the proposition as it now stands before sults. Now, there is no fallacy in that argument. the committee to make the number of senate dis- My honorable friend, I am sorry to say, on the tricts and the number of Senators thirty-six, and permanent records of the debates and proceedings to make the term of office of Senators two years of this Convention, has sent me down to posterity instead of four years. Mr. Chairman, I desire to as using a fallacious argument. Now, being up, state the reasons why I prefer two years instead I desire to say one other word and say of four years as the term of office of Senator. This it seriously, too. It has been to me a matter of year, 1867, we vote throughout the State regret that it is assumed by honorable gentlemen for members of the State Senate, nearly the of this Convention, that we have habitually a cornumber of the members of the House of Rep-rupt Legislature within these halls-an assumpresentatives in Congress from this State. In tion that is scandalizing, not only to the legislators the year 1868 we vote for Representatives in that are elected by the people, but scandalizing Congress. On the proposition as it now stands and defamatory of the intelligent people of this we shall have to vote every two years for one-State who elect these representatives. If it be half of the State for Senators, and at the same true, as is intimated here, that the representatives ume to vote for members of the House of Repre- that come here, year after year, are corruptionists,

Mr. E. A. BROWN—As I said, I will take my parliamentary law entirely from the Chair. will assent to the correctness of the ruling.

The CHAIRMAN-The Chair will suggest to the gentleman he can attain his object by moving an amendment.

The SECRETARY proceeded to read the amendment, as follows:

Strike out "thirty-two," the number of districts, and insert "eleven."

Strike out "four," the number of years of service, and insert "three."

Strike out "one," the number of Senators for each district, and insert "three."

Amend other phraseology so that one Senator shall be elected each year.

our duty will be best performed by abolishing thegency, which existed previous to 1846, those Legislature altogether, and by electing a Governor halcyon days after which my friend from Ononwith the power of Louis Napoleon, to nominate daga [Mr. Andrews] seems to "hanker." [Laughand without question to appoint his own Senators ter.] Establish a government such as they have -and, if you please, to go through the formality in France or England, or anywhere else, and of electing under executive supervision and abandon our representative government, which control, a subservient Corps Legislatiff, and thus has proved itself, on account of its liability to relieve the people from this great responsibil- corruption and rottenness, unfit to be the instruity, which, if these assumptions are true, they mentality of expressing the power of a great have proved themselves so incompetent to State like that of New York. perform. For myself, sir, I was glad to hear the The question was then put on the amendment remarks of the honorable gentleman from Mout-of Mr. E. A. Brown, and it was declared lost. gomery [Mr. Baker] and others on that subject, Mr. CONGER-I offer the following amendand I regret ed to hear the remarks of the honorable ment: gentleman from New York [Mr. Evarts] following in the train of others, in answer to the suggestion which was made, and made upon the basis of historical truth, that the Senate of this State, under our present Constitution had demonstrated itself to be as honorable and as honest as any preceding Senate, for the reason that no man of its members had ever been expelled from the body, or specific charges made against them on which they could be expelled. The answer was, in substance, that the whole body of the Senate was so corrupt Mr. CONGER-The plan that seems about to that it would not expurgate itself from its dishon- be adopted by the majority of the committee fails ored and its corrupt members. Sir, it is an in many important particulars. You have the old allegation, and an imputation that is undeserved single senate district system, and you have memby the Senate of this State, and is an unmerited bers elected every other year from the alternate slander upon the people of this State. Historical-districts. What is the first consequence? That ly, how is it with regard to the charges which have you have only one-half of the Senate in at a been made of corruption? In 1812, I believe, time, and you have no majority of the Senate Governor Tompkins prorogued the Legislature retained in place and possessed of experience on of this State on account of alleged corruption the eve of any election, and thus the great conserof its members, in connection with the old Bank of vative powers of a Senate sought to be secured, America. Charges of bribery and corruption were are effectually swept aside. The first proposition made against that body, and the Governor pro- made by the committee in favor of large districts rogued it. Now, sir, if these foul charges which is utterly slaughtered. The great object of attain. are made against the last Legislature were believed ing conservatism in the Senate, is to have at all to be true, I ask if the Governor of this State had times a majority in that body, not exposed to the the power (which perhaps he has not), did he not risk of any new election. Unless you have a fail, miserably fail, in the discharge of his duty, majority that remains, with experience, that is that he did not prorogue the Legislature on personally suggestive of mischiefs, you have no account of its corruptions, and because they failed more effective provision against the inexperience to expurgate themselves from their corrupt mem- of new members than is to be gained by the bers? Sir, that Governor has not failed in the printed register of the doings of the last body. discharge of important duties. He has the cour- Sir, the lobby manages legislation by taking age, the high standing in community, the inde- advantage of the ignorance of inexpert and unadpendence, to discharge that duty if it was in his vised members, and perhaps also through the power, and if he believed it ought to be dis- insincerity or duplicity of some of the old charged. And I will show you the fact histori- ones. I remember well, that a claim which cally, that but a few years since a member of the was advanced against the State, of nearly Assembly, sitting in this hall by virtue of the $20,000, from the Sing Sing prison, which was votes of the people of this very county, was effectually resisted during two regular, and charged with corruption in connection with the ex-one extra session of the Legislature, in 1852 and ercise of his functions as a member of the Legisla- 1853, immediately after the assembling of the ture, and a gentleman who is a member of this Con- Legislature in 1854, was brought to the Senate vention, and probably within the sound of my and passed, was sent down to the House and voice, reported, after due examination, to the passed, the bill sent to the Governor and signed House, charging him with having entertained and the money paid within twenty days after the corrupt propositions with regard to his official assembling of the new Legislature. Shortly thereinfluence and action, and he was expelled from after, a resolution was presented by a member of that body, and the votes of only eight members the lower house, and the reason of his presenting of the one hundred and twenty-eight were the resolution. was, that somebody had sent in found recorded against the expulsion. Sir, another claim from the same prison of some $30,if that corruption exists, as assumed and 000, and he desired to have the opinion of the alleged, I say we fail in the discharge of Attorney-General whether there had been any our duty if we do not abolish the Legislature validity in the claim presented and paid by the altogether and establish again the old Albany re- State, and if not, whether the money could not be