tion, which includes an executive committee; an electric powe committee (a long-time standing committee of the institute keeps close watch on load forecasts across the country and the scheduled to meet these loads, and reports on new transmiss ities planned; a committee on interconnection agreements, w vides a means of exchanging information on coordinating ments; a committee on coordinated area planning, which information on the planning aspects of pooling and coordina cedures and criteria; and, a committee on coordinated area of which exchanges information on the operating technical a pooling and coordinating procedures and criteria.

These committees work closely with the FPC advisory co In fact, the same people serve on some of the advisory com times.

The record of accomplishments made by the electric util try in this country offers no evidence to indicate a need fo posed legislation. There has been no showing of any abuses legislation would eliminate.

We respectfully submit, therefore, that a more orderly nomical development of the electric utility industry can be through the continued reliance on voluntary cooperation segments of the industry than can be accomplished by legislation.

Furthermore, we seriously question whether it is the pr tion of a Federal regulatory agency to take over operationa to the extent envisaged in these proposals, and to so posit fere with management judgment in a technological area, decisions which should be made by those having the respo serving their customers.

Senator LAUSCHE. Mr. Clapp, in the paper of Mr. Hob a discussion of what it would cost to install one 700-ki $18,000 for the clearing of the right-of-way per mile. I on to show what it would cost to clear 13.5 lines-do graph?

Mr. CLAPP. Yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. At a cost of $135,000. He therefore through lack of cooperation, unneeded costs has been building too many lines, when through coordination less be built at a less cost and provide the same kilovolts. May views on his argument?

Mr. CLAPP. As far as what has happened, I think it h over a period of a long time, and the load conditions were justify the higher voltages at the time lots of these line originally. And as the load increases, additional faciliti installed and that would be the case whether it be on a basis or without coordination, as far as that is concerned.

These additional lines were brought about by growth. and improvement in technology and the use of high vo high voltage and all have only come about in more recent

Certainly I am sure that all of these coordinating gr working toward the future are going to utilize as much as possible, extra high voltage as possible, in order to omies such as this gentleman expressed here.

Senator LAUSCHE. Does the survey deal with this subject of coordinated activities so as to reduce the cost and reduce the acreage of land needed?

Mr. CLAPP. The survey deals with that aspect, I am sure, to some extent. But the prevailing thing I think would be the fact that it would work out from an economic standpoint to better advantage to use the extra high voltage. But a great deal of work is being done by these coordinating groups, not only within our segment of the industry, but jointly with other segments of the electric utility industry. We are cooperating in research from the esthetic angle.

Senator LAUSCHE. Mr. Hobart raised several issues pointing toward the achievement of greater economy, the preservation of land, the maintenance of landscape beauty, if the coordination was supervised by the Federal Power Commission rather than determined by the power companies.

May I hear your comment on that argument?

Mr. CLAPP. We dealt with that in our statement in a general way, where we said that a voluntary program in our mind is preferable to being ordered to do something because of the many technological problems that we have to get into, and this involves a great deal of complex study.

For years our groups have been coordinating on the original concept of the need of the area as a whole for transmission lines. Jointly we go to what we call a board study, General Electric, Westinghouse, various universities over the country have computers of the proper type for use in studying load conditions of the future and in determining the size of the lines to be built from the source of power to these various loads as this increases year by year over the next 5 or 10 years, whatever period the study covers.

All of that is so involved and so complex and takes such a long time that it is felt that jointly it can be accomplished better, on a coordinated cooperative basis, that we are now working on with Federal Power Commission and all other interested parties.

Senator LAUSCHE. You state that America has the largest network of transmission lines in the world, over four times the miles of the Soviet Union, which has almost three times the land area. I don't suppose you are able to give an answer to this question, but if you have many powerlines with low kilovoltage, the mileage, in length, is greatly enhanced than if you have high kilovoltage on a particular line. Is that a fact?

Mr. CLAPP. Well, in planning for the future, we are taking that into consideration; yes, sir. With one of the exchange groups of the State Department, I had the privilege of visiting Russia on the matter of electric power supply in their area compared with ours. And I do know that these figures are in order and in line.

They have done a great deal of high-voltage work, extra-highvoltage transmission work, but their distances are so great over there that they have to go to higher voltages, and they are trying to pick up as much of the hydro which is primarily a great distance away from industrial loads, so they do have extra high voltage, have done considerable work on it. And we have access now to a great deal of the information that they have collected over there.

Senator LAUSCHE. When I practiced law a number of yea I tried many condemnation cases for the Cleveland Metropo Board and one of the experiences was that the moment it wa where the metropolitan park board intended to acquire land demanded jumped.

I want you to elaborate on what you said about a pren closure of plans would greatly hamper the orderly and securing of rights-of-way.

Mr. CLAPP. Well, I think our condition would paralled experienced by the metropolitan board which you speak o If they see us coming, why, the price goes up automaticall do have to try and work these plans out as far ahead as p insure the procuring of the land on a basis that we do no with a price that is out of order, because after all, it wou our rate base if the prices were increased.

Senator LAUSCHE. Is it your judgment that under thes we have under consideration that disclosure would happ the line that was to be adopted would become known ar would rise?

Mr. CLAPP. Yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. Do existing Federal departmental regulations on lines crossing federally managed lands o stacles which you feel need a legislative solution?

Mr. CLAPP. Without access to any of the information as position on the part of Edison Electric Institute on tha point I would say personally, yes, the legislation where we lines across Federal property puts us in a position of be mon carriers between the terminal points on either side of land.

Senator LAUSCHE. That is, the question is do you feel w lative action to solve problems in getting permission to c managed lands with powerlines?

Mr. CLAPP. Well, as far as getting the permission of generally I would say we were able to work it out. But i that hangs over our head of making any such line that putting us in the position of being a common carrier.

Senator LAUSCHE. All right. Some States will not al corporation to use condemnation for rights-of-way. Sor bid condemnation across railroad rights-of-way. Do you be useful to have Federal eminent domain procedures? Mr. CLAPP. No, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. You do not think it is necessary? Mr. CLAPP. No.

Senator LAUSCHE. Now, the title of your institution is tric Institute. Will you describe its membership? Is th that does research work and is made up of power com

Mr. CLAPP. It is made up of investor-owned pow About 180-some-odd power companies. And it repres mately 97 or 98 percent of the total number of custon investor-owned companies over the country.

Senator LAUSCHE. What is the function that you pe Edison Electric Institute?

Mr. CLAPP. We have some 84 committees that are formed together into the various aspects of the operation and objectives of our business, research, development, operation procedures, all are studied constantly by some 2,400 people that are members of these 80-some-odd committees. It is our purpose, our objective is to render as reliable service as possible and keep the price down as low as possible to the

consumer.

Senator LAUSCHE. All right. Thank you very much. Now I have here a paper from Hr. Hartung.

Mr. HARTUNG. My name is Philip H. Hartung. I am the vice president in charge of power pooling of Public Service Electric & Gas Co. I am currently the Public Service Electric & Gas Co. representative on the management committee of the Pennsylvania-New JerseyMaryland Interconnection (PJM). It is on behalf of the management committee that I am appearing before this committee today.

The Pennsylvania-New Jersey-Maryland Interconnection is a formal power pool including in its fully coordinated operation and coordinated planning a total of 12 operating companies. The power pool is established by a written agreement which sets forth the respective rights and obligations of the participants and appoints the necessary committees and central operating office. Through an extensive and active organization, the operation and planning of the power pool provides for more dependable, economical, and efficient service to the public.

Nine of the systems are signatories to this agreement. Three systems are included in the power pool through separate agreements with two of the signatories to the main agreement. The 12 operating systems included in the fully coordinated operation and coordinated planning of PJM are the following: Public Service Electric & Gas Co.; Philadelphia Electric Co. Group, composed of the Philadelphia Electric Co., Átlantic City Electric Co., and Delmarva Power & Light Co.; Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. Group, composed of the Pennsylvania Power & Light Co., Luzerne Electric Division, UGI Co.; Baltimore Gas & Electric Co.; General Public Utilities System, which is composed of four operating groups, Jersey Central Power & Light Co., Metropolitan Edison Co., New Jersey Power & Light Co., Pennsylvania Electric Co., and the Potomac Electric Power Co.

Perhaps a brief review of the history of the development of PJM would be of interest. During the mid-1920's, three systems operating in portions of Pennsylvania and New Jersey undertook studies to determine the justification and need for high-capacity interconnecting transmission lines to realize certain of the benefits of power_pooling. The outcome of these studies was the formation of the Pennsylvania-New Jersey interconnection, the predecessor of PJM. By agreement dated September 16, 1927, Public Service Electric & Gas Co., Philadelphia Electric Co., and Pennsylvania Power & Light Co. initiated the construction of 230-kilovolt interconnection lines and also the basic operating practices establishing the "one system" concept. Under this concept, the system of a power pool are operated as though they were one system, without regard for territorial division or ownership. The greatest benefits are thereby obtained, and these benefits are then shared among those systems creating the benefits and by the customers of the respective systems.

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Senator LAUSCHE. By what you have thus far said, is th justified that you are now attempting through coordinate achieve the objectives that have been spoken about here some of the witnesses?

Mr. HARTUNG. Yes, sir; that is the objective and that we wish to make, that the objectives as detailed in the bill being done voluntarily.

Senator LAUSCHE. Mr. Hobart's testimony was to the Federal supervision is required to achieve what you hav stating has been done through this pool in which you are Mr. HARTUNG. Yes, sir.

Senator LAUSCHE. All right. Proceed.

Mr. HARTUNG. As the systems grew, and as interconn were established with adjacent companies, their operati part of the operation of the Pennsylvania-New Jersey tion. Recognizing the improved technology of operati Cesirable inclusion of more systems, studies were initiate expand the original power pool. By agreement dated Se 1956, the PJM interconnection replaced the former Pennsy Jersey interconnection. In addition to the original th Baltimore Gas & Electric Co. and the four operating of the General Public Utilities Corp.; that is, Pennsy tric Co., Metropolitan Edison Co., New Jersey Power & and Jersey Central Power & Light Co. entered into that By a supplemental agreement dated January 28, 1965, Po tric Power Co. became the ninth signatory to the PJM ag This power pool presently serves more than 20 millio about 10 percent of the Nation, in the States of New Jers vania, Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia, as well as her trict of Columbia. Geographically, the PJM service sembles a huge triangle, stretching from Erie, Pa., 350 m to the Hudson River, then 350 miles south to Cape Charle marva Peninsula, and finally back to Erie, Pa. This area more than 48,000 square miles and contains some of the industrialized and commercially vital sections in the Uni

The installed generating capacity of the PJM memb now totals 18,907 megawatts. The alltime peakload to o megawatts was experienced on July 13 of this year. By 1 installed capacity is expected to reach 31,000 megaw annual peakload of over 26,000 megawatts.

PJM is operated under the one-system concept, as a s area with minute-to-minute economic dispatch of genera free-flowing ties. A requirement for such operation is a mission system which presents a minimum of limitatio restricted free flow of power.

From the power pool's inception, its backbone has ordinated development of a strong 230-kilovolt bulk-po sion system interconnecting the facilities of the memb From its modest beginning of a 290-mile ring in the e has grown to more than 2,000 circuit miles. Present p mitments call for the installation of an additional 80 near future.

The transmission system is designed for full utilizat parent excess capacity existing from time to time is eithe