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SEC. 20. That the Act of June 18, 1929 (Public, Numbered 13, of the Seventyfirst Congress), shall remain in full force, except that the census of agriculture and livestock shall be taken in the year 1935.

SEC. 21. That the salaries or compensation of all technical, statistical, and temporary employees, as well as all special agents, supervisors, supervisors’ clerks, enumerators and interpreters, employed or appointed under this Act shall be paid by the Administrator of the Civil Works Administration out of the funds appropriated by Congress for Federal emergency relief and for the continuation of the Civil Works program.

Mr. ELLENBoGEN introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Census and ordered to be printed

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A BILL To provide for a census of population, occupations, and unemployment, to advance the date of the census of agriculture to November 12, 1934, and for other purposes

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That in order to provide accurate and quickly available information as to the extent of unemployment and the present distribution of population as an aid to the formulation of public relief policy, to indicate recent changes in the employment, occupations, and social well-being of the American people, and to obtain the information necessary for intelligent planning of our economic system, a census of population, occupations, and unemployment shall be taken by the Director of the Census as of November 12, 1934. SEC. 2. That the period commencing July 1, 1934, and ending December 31, 1936, shall be known as the “census period”, and the reports of the census herein provided for shall be completed within such period.

SEC. 3. That the census of population, occupations, and unemployment shall be taken in accordance with the provisions of the Act providing for the fifteenth and subsequent decennial censuses, approved June 18, 1929, and all the provisions of that Act regulating the conduct and organization of the decennial census of 1930 shall be followed in taking the census herein provided for, except that all clerks, technical or statistical advisers, special agents, supervisors, supervisors’ clerks, enumerators, interpreters, and all other persons who will be employed for the purpose of preparing, conducting, or assisting in said census, shall be appointed by the Director of the Census without regard to the civil service laws and rules and without regard to sections 661 to 674 of title 5.

SEC. 4. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized to make available, from the funds which have been appropriated by Public Law Numbered 93, Seventy-third Congress, approved February 15, 1934, or from funds which have been or which may be hereafter appropriated for expenditure subject to the discretion of the President of the United States, the amount which in his judgment is necessary for the purpose of carrying out the above-mentioned provisions of this Act.

SEc. 5. To facilitate and improve the quinquennial census of agriculture, authorized to be taken as of January 1, 1935, under section 16 of the Fifteenth Census Act, and to coordinate it with the census on unemployment and population therein provided for, this census of agriculture and livestock shall be taken as of November 12, 1934.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kerlin, you are appearing as a representative of the Department of Commerce and of the Secretary of Commerce? Mr. KERLIN. I do. The CHAIRMAN. You may state in your own way your views, as to the necessity of census legislation, and the scope that legislation should take. Mr. KERLIN. Mr. Chairman, first let me present to you the compliments of the Secretary of Commerce and say that he very much regrets not being able to be present this morning. He had planned to come before the committee and render such assistance as he might in connection with this proposed legislation, but at the last moment he found it impossible for him to attend. He wanted me to inform you that if, in your consideration of this proposed legislation, you feel that he can be of any material aid, you will be entirely free to call on him to come before you personally and assist you in any way he can.

For more than a year the Department of Commerce has been receiving a large and increasing number of communications, principally from outside sources at first, requesting legislation of this type. They came from scientists, statisticians, people engaged in social welfare work, and organizations interested in relief work.

However, these in themselves were not sufficient to convince Secretary Roper that there was a broad enough demand for a special census of this type. But as the relief program of the administration developed and has been administered during the past several months, there grew an increasing demand for those activities engaged in the i. program for statistics of the very types contemplated by these

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We have had a number of requests from Federal organizations, such as the Agricultural Department, the Labor Department, the Interior Department, the N.R.A., the Public Works and Civil Works Administrations, every one of which seemed to be interested in this type of legislation. It was the demand from the Federal sources that convinced the Secretary that we should have some authority to conduct such a census for the purpose of securing information in regard to employment and occupations, and, as you stated, limited information on population. :

I have here a letter from Secretary Roper which I would like to have - o in the record, and if it pleases the chairman, I will be glad to read it.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it is so ordered.

Mr. KERLIN. The letter says:

DEPARTMENT of CoMMERCE,
OFFICE of THE SECRETARY,
Washington, April 28, 1984.

Hon. RALPH. F. LoziER,

Chairman Committee on the Census,
House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

MY DEAR MR. LoziER: This Department has considered two bills (H.R. 7765 and H.R. 8436), introduced in the House of Representatives by Mr. Ellenbogen, providing for a census of unemployment, occupations, and population. I am transmitting to you copies of two letters pertaining to the proposed census, both dated April 26, which P. received from the Director of the Budget.

The first of these raises certain objections to the bills as introduced. The second accompanies a draft of a new bill which was prepared in collaboration with representatives of the Census Bureau and the Central Statistical Board. You will note Mr. Douglas' statement that this bill would not be inconsistent with the financial program of the President.

As chairman of the Committee on the Census, I think you will wish to consider whether, and in what manner, the proposed legislation should beintroduced and handled in the House of Representatives. I believe that Mr. Ellenbogen is a member of your committee and you will doubtless consult him on the matter. The inquiries contemplated, in my opinion, are of vital importance to the recovery program, as is evidenced by letters we have received from the Federal agencies administering various phases of that program. I have received hundreds of communications from organizations and competent specialists in the fields concerned, demanding legislation of the type here submitted.

I shall be glad to render every assistance possible in furthering the enactment of the bill to which Mr. Douglas' letter refers.

Sincerely yours,
DANIEL C. RoPER,
Secretary of Commerce.

(The letters of the Director of the Budget above referred to are as follows:)

BUREAU of THE BUDGET,
Washington, April 26, 1934.

The Honorable SECRETARY of Commerce.

MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: Further consideration, as requested in your letter of March 14, 1934, has been given to H.R. 7765, a bill “To provide for a population, unemployment and agricultural census to be taken as of November 12, 1934, and for other purposes.”

A census of agriculture as of January 1, 1935, is already authorized and appropriation for the first year has been made. The bill merely advances the date of this census to November 12, 1934, which is not inconsistent with the President's financial program.

The scope of the census of population and unemployment proposed seems more extensive than necessary to obtain the information required to meet present needs, and the bill includes provisions not consistent with present law, such as the authorization in section 18 of payment of allowances in excess of legal rates now applicable in the regular activities of the Government.

If the bill were amended to authorize a census of unemployed persons and their dependents within the limits of the continental United States, to provide information necessary to aid in the formulation of relief and other public policies, providing that such census may include such enumeration of population as may be appropriate and necessary for this purpose; to correct the inconsistencies therein with present law, and to authorize allotment from emergency funds of not to exceed $7,540,000 for taking this census, exclusive of agriculture, the expenditures contemplated by such legislation would not be in conflict with the financial program of the President.

Very truly yours,
L. W. Douglas, Director.

BUREAU of THE BUDGET, Washington, April 26, 1934. The Honorable SECRETARY OF CoMMERCE. MY DEAR MR. SECRETARY: I am enclosing draft of a proposed bill, prepared in collaboration with representatives of the Census Bureau and the Central Statistical Board, to provide for a census of unemployment, employment, and occupations, which would not be inconsistent with the financial program of the President. I assume you will take such steps as you may consider desirable with reference to this draft. Very truly yours, - L. W. Douglas, Director.

(The draft of the bill referred to is as follows:)

A BILL To provide for a census of unemployment, employment, and occupations to be taken as of November 12, 1934, and for other purposes

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That to provide information concerning the numbers, types, and locations of unemployed persons and their dependents, and concerning employment and occupations, necessary to aid in the formulation of a program of unemployment relief, the Director of the Census shall take as of November 12, 1934, a census of unemployment, employment, and occupations in the forty-eight States and the District of Čolumbia: Provided, That such census may include such enumeration of population as may be appropriate and necessary for the purposes of this section.

SEC. 2. That the provisions of the Act providing for the fifteenth and subsequent decennial censuses, approved June 18, 1929 (46 Stat., p. 21), shall apply, so far as now applicable, to the taking of the census provided for in the foregoing section: Provided, That temporary personnel in the District of Columbia, employed under the provisions of this Act, may be allowed leave of absence with pay at the rate of one and one fourth days per month.

SEC. 3. That to meet the expenses of section 1 of this Act, the President is authorized to make available not to exceed $7,540,000 from funds which have been or may be appropriated for expenditure in his discretion.

SEc. 4. That the census of agriculture and livestock, authorized to be taken as of January 1, 1935, by section 16 of the said Act of June 18, 1929, and appropriated for in the Department of Commerce Appropriation Act, 1935, shall be taken as of November 12, 1934, conjointly with, and covering the same geographical limits as, the census provided for in section 1 hereof.

SEc. 5. The President is authorized, from funds which have been or may be appropriated for expenditure in his discretion, to make available not to exceed $368,465 for the printing of reports, collected and now being compiled, on the census of American business, census record preservation, urban tax delinquency, and real property inventory.

(NotE.-The foregoing draft was revised and introduced by Chairman Lozier as H.R. 9391.) Mr. KERLIN. I might say, Mr Chairman, that the Secretary, as stated in his letter, has received hundreds of communications, and if it should be the desire of the committee, he would be more than pleased to file those with the committee, or make them available for the information of the committee at any time. Mr. RANKIN. What is the estimated cost of this bill? Mr. KERLIN. The estimated cost of the bill as introduced now is $7,540,000. - Mr. ELLENBogEN. I understand that comes out of the funds already appropriated for Mr. Hopkins' work. Mr. KERLIN. That was the proposal made by the Budget Bureau. Mr. RANKIN. What was the cost of the census of 1930? Mr. KERLIN. The entire census of 1930 cost $39,500,000. Mr. RANKIN. Would this be a complete census of population such as was compiled at that time? Mr. KERLIN. This does not contemplate a complete census of population such as was taken in 1930. Mr. RANKIN. If you are going to the trouble of taking a census, I am not sure but that you ought to include a complete census of population. Mr. ELLENBogEN. A census of population is contemplated, but it does not contemplate including numerous questions asked in 1930. Mr. RANKIN. But as to the number of people in every community, county, State, and so forth, that would be included, so far as population is concerned? Mr. LEMKE. As I understand it there will be a complete census of population, of agriculture, and of unemployment. Mr. KERLIN. I was going to suggest at this point that Director Austin, the head of the Census Bureau, be permitted to testify and go into the details of the bill for the information of the committee. The CHAIRMAN. Nave you anything additional to offer? Mr. KERLIN. Nothing at all, Mr. Chairman, except to repeat that if during the deliberations of the committee you would like to have Secretary Roper come before you he will be glad to respond. Mr. ELLENBoGEN. Mr. Kerlin, what is the difference between the bills that I introduced and the bill that you have before you, that is, the Department's bill? What is the main difference, if you can give it to us very briefly? Mr. KERLIN. The main difference between the bill as introduced by you—and I presume you have reference now to the later bill? Mr. ELLENBogEN. Yes. Mr. KERLIN. Not the first one?

Mr. ELLENBogEN. I refer to the later bill, but they are both the same, except that the language in the second one is much shorter. The purpose of both bills is the same. Mr. KERLIN. I think these bills are the same in purpose, and there is merely some change in the wording, and the reference to the census of population has been somewhat subordinated in this bill. It does not appear here quite as broad as in the original bill. Mr. ELLENBoGEN. In my bill, in section 4, I did not specify the amount to be expended because I wanted to leave that for the determination of the committee. I notice you say that $7,400,000 would be sufficient. Do you think that would be sufficient? I had thought the amount would be in the neighborhood of $10,000,000. That is the figure I had in mind. Mr. KERLIN, Mr. Austin has a complete breakdown showing how that money is to be expended and to what projects it will be apportioned. Mr. ELLENBoGEN. It may be you are correct in saying that that is the amount. But the committee should understand this does not involve the appropriation of additional money. The money has already been appropriated for disposal by Mr. Hopkins, subject to the orders of the President. This is only one specific project to be undertaken out of those funds. Mr. KERLIN. This bill does not authorize, nor do I believe your bill authorizes the expenditure of money out of any specific appropriation, but merely out of any funds which had been made available for expenditure, in the discretion of the President. Mr. ELLENBoGEN. What I had in mind mainly was the $950,000,000 appropriated for the employment relief fund. Mr. KINZER. Do I understand you to say that the census of 1930, or the data obtained in that census are not of the kind your department requires at this time? Mr. KERLIN. As to the census of 1930, owing to the depression there have been more than the ordinary, usual, or customary changes in population. There has been that migration which does not ordinarily obtain during a period of 5 years. Mr. KINZER. How will this proposed census add to employment? I understood you to say this is an emergency measure. How will this add to employment, other than the employment it will give by this expenditure of money? Mr. KERLIN. It will place in the hands of these departments and agencies which are now engaged in the recovery program current information as to the population and its location, as to where relief funds should be expended, and how they should be apportioned. One of the difficulties at the present time in connection with the Civil Works Administration and the Public Works Administration, is to get accurate information as to the location of the people in greatest need of relief. Mr. KINZER. Referring to the provisions of this bill, can you cite any example where lack of information is responsible for the present unemployment? Mr. KERLIN. May I suggest, Congressman Kinzer, that you have available here for testimony as the hearing develops, representatives from those agencies, and I would suggest that perhaps it would be preferable for you to obtain information direct from those represent

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