expressly authorize the Chair to appoint special subcommittees in such numbers and for such purposes as he feels may be necessary, subject to the previous requirement of consultation with the minority member.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that is sound and necessary, because there will arise occasions when I shall want to appoint two or three members from one subcommittee, two or three from another subcommittee, to study some special problem in which they are interested and which they are well qualified to handle. I think Mr. Smart might well try to work out an amendment to that resolution and incorporate it therein.

Mr. SMART. Then do I understand that it is the sense of the committee that an amendment be prepared and, subsequently, be submitted for the committee's consideration?

Mr. VINSON. I think we should do it now.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, that the Chair shall have the authority to appoint special subcommittees when in his judgment that is

necessary.

Mr. VINSON. That is correct, in his discretion.

Mr. COLE. I think the record should contain a full statement of what the committee wants to do.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any objection to such an amendment? The Chair hears none, and it is so ordered.

Mr. WICKERSHAM. Mr. Chairman, following up Mr. Durham's suggestion of a little while ago, there was a subcommittee composed of three members in the other body that have been holding up many highly classified projects, projects that were very essential. We knew on October 31 of many projects in States where the acquisition of land was involved which had to do perhaps with only 1 percent of a whole project, but those matters were being held up. Two of those members are no longer on that committee, and I think it would be well if that were brought to the attention of the chairman of the Armed. Services Committee in the Senate, because it is important.

The CHAIRMAN. I shall try to have a conference with Senator Saltonstall to firm up that matter.

Mr. NELSON. Mr. Chairman, do I understand that the record will show that we have reconsidered the motion by which we adopted the resolution, and that we have adopted the amendment suggested by Mr. Cole, and that the committee has passed the resolution and the amendment?

The CHAIRMAN. The appropriate resolution to amend is No. 5; and, without objection, it is so ordered. Now I want to get the sense of the full committee about the continuation of our special investigative committee. Personally, I have never been too enthusiastic about investigations. They spend a lot of time and there is a lot of hurrah about it, but we frequently wind up without too much action.

It is quite obvious, I think, to any reasonable person that with the vast sums of money being spent on our national defense through annual appropriations-it comes to something like three-fourths of the total budget which goes for defense-it is imperative that we have a "watchdog" committee or an investigating committee to observe what is being doen, to try to eliminate waste and duplication, and certainly to prevent fraud. Now, if other members of the committee feel that

we should continue to have an investigating committee, then let us have a real one. I hope the House will not be niggardly with us in that. I do not think they will be. I think they should give us, to start with, $150,000. I think we should not go to the House and ask for $25,000 and then ask for $50,000 and then come back and ask for more. Of course, we did not spend all the money they gave us the last time. We turned back, I believe, something like-was it $47,000, Mi. Smart?

Mr. SMART. I think it was $67,000, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I feel that, if that committee is continued, we should get it properly staffed, obtain the best staff available, and get an adequate staff and have a real investigation.

I believe the psychological effect would be very good. It would be a deterrent to wrongdoing. I believe we should have a keen lawyerinvestigator and perhaps should have a builder-contractor who knows real estate, who can go out on the job and observe first-hand what is being done. And I think we ought to have an expert accountant to check the various items.

Of

There are several different people that we have had in mind. course, they are difficult to find, because we are not able to pay them enough and in the past we have not paid them enough. We have got to be able to pay a pretty good salary to anyone who is well qualified. There is no use having an investigating subcommittee unless we get capable, competent men to staff that committee.

Mr. BROOKS. What do you think of giving this a little more thought before action is taken? I have been thinking for several years that when a committee temporarily assumes the prerogative of passing judgment on these projects as they come up, that that is really essentially a part of the investigative authority of the committee.

Mr. VINSON. I do not think so.

Mr. BROOKS. It could not be construed any other way. way. I am afraid I must differ with my distinguished colleague from Georgia on that. I am sorry he disagrees with me on it. You may get opposition to a project. The matter finally blossoms out to where a subcommittee is appointed to investigate the project. The subcommittee goes out to investigate, as we did last year when we went to New York and we are faced with a full-blown investigation, but without facilities. We had no staff set up for that particular purpose. It seems to me that it is part of the investigative authority of the committee.

Also it seems to me that members of the committee who really want to serve on some special subcommittee, some investigating subcommittee, should be given the opportunity to do so. It is true that some of them will not want to serve on that special subcommittee, because they are members of still other committees. Some members are members of special or joint committees, or special investigating committees doing some other investigating. But there will be those who are especially interested in the subject and I think they should be given an opportunity to take part in those investigations.

So that I say now, Why not give this matter more thought and work it out so that we may have a better set-up for the handling of these investigations? What I am saying is not intended to reflect whatsoever on the personnel of the subcommittees that we have had. I

Mr. VINSON. I feel this very keenly. I think it is absolutely essential that we re-create, or reestablish an investigating committee. When I was chairman of the Naval Affairs Committee we had an investigating committee and, growing out of the post-audit and scrutiny of contracts that we did then, we had testimony from people sitting in the very place where Mr. Smart is sitting now, evidence of companies that were earning $75 and $100 million more than they should have on certain contracts. As a result of that we submitted reports that showed that over $3 billion was saved as a result of those investigations.

During the Eighty-first Congress and the Eighty-second Congress I asked the committee to approve the establishment of an investigating committee because, as the chairman has alredy well said, perhaps 75 percent of our total expenditures are being made through defense expenditures and legislation before the Armed Services Committee. It is highly important, with such enormous expenditures, that the servants of the people have some knowledge of what is going on.

So I certainly hope that it will be the sense of this committee that the Chair will be authorized to introduce a resolution and obtain the necessary authority from the House to accomplish this purpose, and following that, there will be another resolution giving the chairman the authority to designate the staff and to appoint the subcommittees to carry on this work.

With reference to the question raised by Mr. Brooks, I do not share with him the thought that it is the duty of the investigating committee to inquire into such things as the acquisition and disposal of realty. That is done under acts of Congress specifically passed by Congress, so that we may keep posted on what is going on. No property may be acquired unless we authorize it. I took the position, and the Congress followed that point of view, that the property belonged to the Government and none of it should be disposed of until some group of Congressmen, some committees specifically the two committees having this jurisdiction-had a voice in it. I think it is being channeled in the right course in accordance with the law. I do hope that this committee will authorize the chairman to proceed to establish, as he sees fit, an investigating committee, and to staff it as it should be staffed and authorizes him to go to the floor of the House and obtain the necessary authority to carry out this purpose. We should know what is going on.

I am one who is rather inquisitive by nature. I want to know, and I wanted to know what the administration was doing during the 4 years when I was chairman. I am inclined to think that there are other Members who are also inquisitive, Members of the majority, who will want to know what is going on. I believe you will get good results from this action. I hope there will be no dissent on the part. of any Member to authorizing the chairman to take the necessary steps to establish in any way he sees fit, such an investigating committee.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I heartily agree with what Mr. Vinson has said. There is one point that I think we should think about. I do not think that we should have one investigating committee to handle all the investigations. The chairman will remember

committee, and those committees brought out important facts that the public and we ought to know. My idea is that the chairman should appoint one committee to handle one problem and then another committee to handle another problem.

The CHAIRMAN. You will wind up with more machinery than you have car to drive it.

Mr. JOHNSON. If you have one committee handling all of the different problems that should be investigated, I think they will have too much to do. I have been thinking of one that I have been talking about for a long time, and it would take an awful lot of work just for that one investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. How much personnel would you have to employ? Mr. BROOKS. Mr. Chairman, my idea is along the line of Mr. Johnson's, that we give greater scope to these investigations, see that the committees are more adequately staffed and have more facilities than they have had in the past. Further, I think that we should give members of the committee full opportunity to participate in these investigations, if they want to do so. We should give them an opportunity to serve on these investigations and not confine it to one small group, to represent the whole committee. I have no criticism. of what has been done in the past, but I do think that if a man does not want to serve on one of these committees, he should not be compelled to do so. He may have another committee covering such a subject as atomic energy, or he may be a member of some joint committee, which will take all of his time and perhaps he will not want to serve on this special committee. But I would like to see the investigative power of the committee expanded.

Mr. JOHNSON. The point is that the checkrein will be the chairman himself. He will not permit these committees to blossom out all over the landscape. But I believe we should not confine it to one group to do all the investigating.

Mr. BROOKS. I am in full accord with the idea that the Chair should be given this authority. My suggestion was not in any sense a challenge to the authority of the Chair. My suggestion was that we have well-organized investigations and that we give full opportunity to all members who want to serve on those committees to do so.

Mr. VINSON. Mr. Chairman, in reply to Mr. Brooks, we have just given the chairman authority to appoint any special committee that he sees fit and any one of those special committees could cover whatever subject anyone has in his mind. That is entirely separate and distinct from the point that the Chair raised first, We have first got to get the authority of the House.

Mr. JOHNSON. Is it contemplated to give the chairman the authority to appoint special subcommittees and that those special subcommittees would investigate whatever needs investigation?

Mr. VINSON. Certainly; to do anything that the Chair feels needs to be done.

Mr. HARDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make this observation. I think these special subcommittees are highly desirable. There may be situations where you will need a special subcommittee but unless you have a regular investigative subcommittee that is adequately staffed, to carry on these investigations, you are not going

that is properly set up can have a tremendous effect on the amount of money that is spent.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to say that the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Hardy, did an excellent job himself and it is just that type of work that we are thinking of.

Mr. VINSON. May I say this, that if this committee does not protect its own jurisdiction, some other committee of the House will move in. Now, in connection with Mr. Hardy, I invite his attention to the debate in the Senate yesterday, where somebody referred to his report as the Porter-Hardy report. Apparently they think Mr. Hardy is two men.

Mr. Chairman, I move the adoption of the resolution that we have been discussing.

Mr. SMART. Mr. Vinson, I have a proposed resolution which covers that subject.

The CHAIRMAN. We had this subject in mind, but I wanted to present it fully and frankly to the whole committee before we submitted the resolution. Proceed, Mr. Smart.

Mr. SMART. This is the resolution:

Resolved, That the House Committee on Armed Services shall have a special investigating subcommittee, the size and membership of which shall be determined by the chairman and the ranking minority member of the full committee; be it further

Resolved, That the chairman is authorized to prepare and introduce appropriate resolutions in the House of Representatives for the accomplishment of this purpose; be it further

Resolved, That upon obtaining appropriate authority from the House of Representatives, the chairman of the full committee is authorized to designate a special counsel to direct and coordinate the professional activities of the special investigating subcommittee and that the chairman, the ranking minority member and the designated chairman of the special investigating subcommittee are authorized to select additional staff personnel as may be required by such special investigating subcommittee, the salaries of each to be determined by the chairman of the full committee.

Mr. VINSON. I move the adoption of the resolution.

Mr. VAN ZANDT. I second the motion.

Mr. KILDAY. Is there anything in the resolution pertaining to subpena powers?

Mr. SMART. That would be included in the resolution which would be passed by the House.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the adoption of the resolution as amended by Mr. Cole's amendment previously discussed? The Chair hears none and it is adopted unanimously.

Gentlemen, we are not going to have, in my opinion, too many very important pieces of legislation before our committee in this session of Congress. I do not want to leave the impression that we will not have any important legislation, but I think we have passed enough laws already to last us for a long time. We are overloaded with them, in fact, and I would like to get out of here by July 1, as I think most of the members of the committee would also. But we do not want to consider legislation which we feel is not of essential importance. That is my own personal view.

Mr. GAVIN. Mr. Chairman, with reference to the matter of project. authorizations, last year we sat week after week and week after week on those. It seems to me that we should develop some more simplified