and whom the House would no doubt rejoice to see again in the chair. But it might be objected, that that gentleman already filled a very high political situation, from which he could not be removed without imminent danger to the public service. This objection was, however, easily to be got over, for the gentleman now proposed for the chair would, with perhaps equal ability, fill that high ministerial office; for great offices had a wonderful power in bringing out latent talents, which even the possessors did not dream that they possessed, until thus placed in an eminent station. There was a certain friction connected with a great place, that elicited a blaze of abilities equal, if not superior, to the office itself. Besides, the office of Speaker disentangled the mind from all the shackles of partiality; the practice of that impartiality begot a principle which made a man stifle even his private wishes; and if he afterwards passed into a greater situation, he carried that principle of impartiality along with him. This the House must have seen realized very recently; for this habit of the chair so prevailed of late with a right hon. gentleman (whom he wished to see again in that office) that after several hours contest, it was impossible to say whether that right hon. gentleman, on the occasion alluded to, was more disposed to support his old friends or his new allies. Perhaps, however, there might be some parliamentary impediment in the way of his reelection to the place of Speaker: if so, Mr. Ley would explain. All that he had in view was to see every man in the station for which he was best fitted.

Mr. Abbot said:-In offering myself to the notice of the House upon the present occasion, it is impossible that I should not feel the strongest emotions of respect to the House, and gratitude to my friends. But I cannot persuade myself that the partiality and kindness of my hon. friends, who have stood forward to-day, can be accepted by the House as proofs of my fitness for the high and honourable office which is now vacant. To reflect upon the learning, the talents, and the virtues which have for so many centuries successively dignified that Chair, must fill any man with a just apprehension of his own insufficiency to execute its various duties with the dignity and ability which so im portant a trust demands. If, indeed, an ardent zeal for the constitution, a rooted attachment to the privileges of this House,

and a sincere admiration of its invaluable forms of proceeding, may be considered as sufficient qualities for such a choice,— I believe they belong in common to every member of this House:-and so far unquestionably, if the House shall think fit to grant its indulgent support to any of its members in that high office, he may accomplish much; although if that support be withheld, or withdrawn, his best endeavours will be ineffectual. I have only to add, that my humble services are at the disposal of the House; and whether they shall be pleased to accept, or reject them, no event can diminish my respect for its determinations.

Mr. Charles Dundas frankly confessed that, in point of abilities, he could not come in competition with the learned gentleman who spoke last. His habits of life precluded him from such pretensions. They were the habits of a country gentleman, who aimed at nothing more than honestly doing the business of his constituents in parliament. The eminent talents which distinguished the two hon. gentlemen who had lately filled the chair, bad given him a full idea of the great qualities necessary to the discharge of such an arduous duty, and made him sensible that he was incapable of the same exertion. He hoped, therefore, he should be permitted to decline an office which he was not qualified adequately to fill, and that the hon. gentleman who made the motion in his favour would withdraw it.

Mr. Ormsby said, it was highly gratifying to Irishmen, that his majesty had been pleased to reward, with a high situation in Ireland, a right hon. gentleman who had been so eminent for his political services in this country; and at the same time he must observe, that by the vote of that day, the sister kingdom would lose as useful and persevering a friend, as ever had the management of her affairs. The right hon. gentleman now proposed to fill that chair, had shown as much zeal to promote the best interests of Ireland as ever any man had done; the whole island was unanimous in his praise.

The question being put by the clerk, "That the right hon. Charles Abbot do take the Chair of this House, as Speaker," was agreed to. Whereupon Mr. Abbot was conducted to the chair by the master of the Rolls and Mr. Baker; where, standing upon the upper step of the chair, he again addressed himself to the House, and made his respectful acknowledgments to

the House, for the high honour conferred upon him; and assured the House that it should be his constant endeavour to merit their good opinion, by a diligent and impartial discharge of his duty. And then he sat down in the chair; and the mace (which before lay under the table) was laid, by the serjeant, upon the table. And Mr. Secretary at War congratulated Mr. Speaker elect. After which the House adjourned. On the following day, Mr. Abbot was presented in the House of Peers, for the royal approbation, and approved of by the king.

King's Message respecting the Civil List.] Feb. 15. Mr. Chancellor Addington presented the following Message from his Majesty:

"GEORGE R.

"His Majesty feels great concern in acquainting the House of Commons, that the provision made by parliament for defraying the expenses of his household and civil government has been found inadequate to their support.-A considerable debt has in consequence been unavoidably incurred, an account of which he has ordered to be laid before this House. His Majesty relies with confidence on the zeal and affection of his faithful Commons, that they will take the same into their early consideration, and adopt such measures as the circumstances may appear to them to require. G. R."

The Message was ordered to be referred to a Committee of Supply; and on the following day, the chancellor of the exchequer, by command of his majesty, presented the accounts respecting the civil list.

Debate in the Commons on appointing a Committee to consider the Civil List Accounts.] Feb. 17. Mr. Chancellor Addington rose and said:-Sir; I rise in pursuance of notice, to move that the several accounts relative to the expenditure of the civil list, be referred to a committee. If I were to follow the practice usually adopted upon these occasions, I should merely move, that the said accounts be referred to a committee of supply. But it appears to me to be due to the House, to the public, and to his majesty himself, that the circumstances which have occasioned such an accumulation of debts as appears upon these accounts should be fully investigated, as I am thoroughly convinced, if it should be the pleasure of [VOL. XXXVI.]

the House to appoint the committee, that the result will convince every member that the causes which have occasioned this accumulation were, in a great degree, unavoidable. It will be recollected, that sixteen years have now elapsed since the arrangements and schedules were made, with reference to the various branches of the civil list to be provided for by parlia ment. Let the House recollect what has been the operation of the numerous articles of expenditure of which that civil list is composed. Let gentlemen advert to their own domestic concerns, and they will not be at a loss to account for a very large portion of that debt, the particulars of which are submitted to the House in these accounts. Sir, it would be inconsistent with the purpose for which the committee is to be appointed, if I were to enter into an enumeration of the receipts or expenditure of the civil list. All I wish is, that the House should go to the inquiry without any preconceived opinion, with respect to the nature of the debt, or the circumstances which have led to its accumulation. If the committee should be appointed, when the report shall have been made, I should wish the discussion should be as minute and ample as the importance of the subject undoubtedly requires. At present I shall move, “That a committee be appointed, to take into consideration the several accounts which were yesterday presented to the House by Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, by his majesty's command, relating to his majesty's civil list; and that they do examine the said accounts, and report the same, as they shall appear to them, together with their observations thereupon, to the House."

Mr. Manners Sutton (Solicitor General to the Prince of Wales) said:-I hope, Sir, it will not be deemed improper in me to state to the House a circumstance relative to the affairs of his royal highness the prince of Wales, which appears to me necessary to be mentioned. It is well known, that the revenues of the duchy of Cornwall are a part of the revenues of the crown, till the birth of the eldest son of the king; and that on the birth of such eldest son the title becomes immediately vested in him as proprietor of the duchy, with all the rights, immunities, and privileges belonging to the same. Of course, these revenues are a fund to be secured during the minority of the prince of Wales, for his benefit. In the present [Y]

instance, these funds were not so applied, but were applied in aid of the civil list, which must have been increased from other sources if these funds had not existed. Therefore, in taking the account, though it may be said to be a question between his majesty and the prince of Wales, yet in reality, the question arises between the prince of Wales and the public. The public have received that revenue which was the property of the prince of Wales. If that could be a question between his majesty and the prince of Wales, I know his royal highness would readily consent to forego much of his right-he would sacrifice any thing to the feelings of his majesty on such a subject. The House may rest assured, that what I have stated are the genuine sentiments of the prince of Wales; but, Sir, this is certainly not a question between his majesty and his royal highness it is a claim he has on the public, for that which the public have received and not accounted for. When I state that the prince of Wales has an undoubted right to the dukedom of Cornwall, I state it not on my own opinion, but I speak from the concurrent testimony of many of the most eminent men in the profession of the law; and particularly of one of the most experienced and learned men at the bar, I mean Mr. Mansfield, who in concurrence with another gentleman of equal celebrity, has given the most decided opinion in favour of the right. I am aware, that some years ago, when this question was likely to be agitated, two very high and distinguished persons expressed doubts as to the right; but if the same state of facts had been laid before the learned gentleman to whom I have alluded, and my learned friend on my left hand, they would not, I am persuaded, have expressed any doubt as to the right of the prince of Wales to the revenue of his own property. The amount of this revenue, from the year 1762, the period of the birth of the prince of Wales, to the year 1783, when his royal highness came of age, is little short of 400,000%. Calculating this fund, with the rate of interest, it would have amounted, upon a fair estimation, to 900,000l. I do not mean to say, that some deduction should not be made on account of the expenses of the prince of Wales during his minority for this I deduct 12,000l. a-year, granted out of the civil list, and 6,000l. more provided out of his majesty's privy

purse. Whether the revenues of the duchy of Cornwall were applicable to the prince of Wales as an establishment for him till the year 1781, or not, yet, giving credit for the deduction and the allowance by his majesty, there would still remain, due to his highness, for the residue of the revenue of his duchy a sum of at least between 6 and 700,000l. Now, Sir, in the several provisions made for the establishment of the prince of Wales, as heir apparent to the crown, this was never taken into consideration; and I am convinced, it never could have been considered that any of the supplies voted by the House to his royal highness were intended as a satisfaction, in lieu of the revenue of the duchy of Cornwall. If I am not in an error, the account will stand thus: In 1781, there was a sum of 60,000l. voted to defray those expenses which occur to every one in the outset of life, and naturally to be expected with regard to the heir apparent. In 1787, there was a further sum of 160,000l. and 20,000l. for completing Carlton-house. In 1795, there was a sum of 20,000l. granted for the purpose of defraying the expenses of the marriage of his royal highness with the princess Caroline. The whole of this amounts to 260,000l.; and with respect to those items which relate to Carltonhouse, the money ought not to be considered as spent by the prince of Wales, as it was laid out in the completion of a building in which the public has an interest. This will reduce the sum received by his royal highness to about 240,000/. a sum very short of what he is entitled to. I have certainly not taken into this calculation the annual income voted by parliament to the prince of Wales. It would be very unreasonable, indeed, that the income of his royal highness should be diminished, because he happens to be a creditor of the public. If we compare the income granted to the present heir apparent, with that which was allotted by parliament to his predecessor, the father of his majesty, it will be found that, with reference to the different periods, the amount is nearly the same. In 1742, the sum of 100,000l. a-year was granted to his royal highness Frederick prince of Wales. He was then only twenty-four years of age; and it was stated, that an income to such an extent was not entirely necessary to defray his expenses, but to enable him to support his rank and dig

nity. The income to the present prince of Wales was, in 1783, 50,000l. In 1787 it was increased to 60,000%., and in 1795 to 120,000l., of which 70,000l. a-year was appropriated, by act of parliament, to the liquidation of his debts. Every one knows how much his royal highness has reduced every expense in his establishment. I think, when I state what has been, and is, the income of the present prince of Wales, and compare it with what was the income of his grandfather, prince Frederick, when I state, that in 1742, 100,000l. was not thought too much for those necessaries and luxuries which a prince has a right to expect, it will not be conceived, by any one, that the income of his royal highness has been increased on account of any debt supposed to be due to his royal highness from the public. I hope, Sir, in making this statement, I have not said any thing that for a moment may excite an idea, that his royal highness has authorised me to express, on his part, any disappointment or dissatisfaction, or that he means to make the least complaint of the proceedings of parliament with regard to him: on the contrary, I know his royal highness feels impressed with gratitude for the obligations he owes to this House. I am persuaded he is satisfied, that, when ever his interest has been the subject of deliberation, the House has discharged its duty to the public and to himself. I have been anxious to state thus much, that the House and the public should be in full possession of the fact. It is important to the prince of Wales, that the public should know, that great as are the expenses imposed on him by his high rank and illustrious situation, they have not fallen heavy on the people of the country, or added to the distress and difficulty of the times. Looking, Sir, to the accounts, and considering them in the point of view in which I have submitted them to the House, I am convinced it will be found, that his royal highness has not received more than he is entitled to, but that a considerable balance is due to him, and that he is the creditor, and not the debtor, of the public. I have been desirous of removing any wrong impression which might have been entertained with respect to that illustrious personage, in whose honour and welfare every well-affected man in the kingdom is so deeply interested. I hope I have said nothing that has the remotest tendency either to embarrass the present government, or to reflect upon the conduct of

the former. As to the rights of the prince of Wales to the revenues of the dukedom of Cornwall, though they unquestionably exist, yet I admit it is not the business of the chancellor of the exchequer to assert them. If the House shall think proper, at any time, further to investigate this matter, it will be my duty to afford every assistance in my power; but the House will forgive me for observing, that I think a motion upon such a subject would come with more propriety from some gentleman who is better known to the House than I have the honour to be.

Mr. Fox said :-Sir, I feel myself called upon to say a few words. The House, I am sure, is much obliged to the hon. gentleman for his very clear and able statement of the claims of the prince of Wales to the arrears of the duchy of Cornwall. I agree almost in every thing he has said, and sincerely hope that the matter will be seriously taken up by the House. Inot only agree with the positions of the hon. gentleman, but I highly approve of the way in which he has unfolded them. If I do not agree with him when he says that no blame is to be attached to the present or former administration, I must admire his prudence in making the concession. But I must beg leave to set him right, when he says that his royal highness's claims have never been asserted. That they have never been effectually asserted, I allow. I myself have had the honour to state them several times, and to urge that they should be satisfied. If I do not now make any motion in support of them, it is not that my opinions are changed, but because I judge, from past experience, that there are others by whom they may be asserted with greater effect. In my opinion, his royal highness's claims are just; at any rate, they are well entitled to a candid discussion. The hon. gentleman says, he will press no motion, but will leave the subject to be taken up by others. In this I must differ from him. I think his royal highness could not have been better advised than to make this application to the House. I am clearly of opinion, that the sums voted to pay his royal highness's debts ought to be deducted, whatever may be said of the 60,000l. granted him on coming of age. But it is the duty of the House, either immediately to allow him the remainder, or to declare that his demands are groundless. He has laboured under hardships, and suffered vextion which, to an individual of any rank,

must be almost insupportable. All his private affairs have been disclosed; his debts have been stated and commented upon; when, if he had received what was due to him, he never would have had occasion to apply for assistance. You have conferred upon him as a favour, what perhaps you would have been unjust in withholding from him; and perhaps he had a right to more than he has ever obtained.-The learned gentleman said, his royal highness has never complained of the restrictions under which he has been laid. If he were dissatisfied, I am the person whom he ought chiefly to blame: the measure of appropriating 70,000l. a year to the liquidation of his debts was of my proposal. His royal highness knows that, besides the respect I owe to him as heir apparent to the crown, he has ever had my best wishes for his honour, prosperity, and happiness. I therefore found it painful to propose such a step, but I considered it as my duty. I thought 120,000l. by no means too large an income to be granted to his royal highness. If Frederick prince of Wales, in 1742, was allowed 100,000., 125,000l. was by no means an increased allowance. There is another mode in which its amount may be estimated; let it be compared with the civil list, and particularly with the sums appropriated to those parts of it which correspond with the establishment of the prince. It will then be seen, that it was liberal, but by no means extravagant. Why, then, did I suggest and support a scheme which reduced it to 50,000? His allowance was at first too small, and the debts incurred, through this ill-judged parsimony, I thought the House bound to dis. charge. But when a settlement had been made, and his royal highness, though imprudently, had professed himself satisfied, I did not think it consistent with his honour to accept of money from the public to pay the debts which he had subsequently incurred. If this reasoning was just, and if this plan was judicious, they will apply equally well to the civil list; and I should think most meanly of myself indeed, if I should not act in the same manner to his majesty himself. This will be a most material consideration, when the report of the committee shall come to be discussed. I believe there was nothing wrong in showing the usual respect to his majesty by referring his speech to a committee of supply; and as it is very necessary that an investigation should take

place previous to this committee being gone into, I readily support the motion. But I should be extremely sorry if this vote should be construed into an acquiescence in the prayer of the message. On a future occasion I shall deliver my sentiments more at large; at present I shall content myself with laying down one general principle:-It is a material feature in our history, that, ever since the Revolution, immediately upon the accession of the prince to the throne, a grant has been made of the civil list for life. Upon this point, considerable contrariety of opinion prevailed, and some imagined that the grant should only be from year to year. Strong arguments in support of this opinion may be advanced, but it is not necessary here to adduce them. I shall merely say, that I have long considered the question with all the attention of which I am capable, and that, after the most mature deliberation, I am persuaded that our ancestors were wise in granting the civil list for life. When the question is revived, if my advice be taken, their example will be imitated. But, though an ample provision is made, it ought to be limited; a contrary system combines the disadvantages of both the others. If the civil list is frequently brought into parliament for aid, the provision is without limits. To say that expense has been increased by unforeseen circumstances, is nugatory; every period is subject to a variation of circumstances; and to pretend that, on this account, the allowance should be varied, is directly to abet the system of granting the civil list from year to year. If you cannot judge what will be a sufficient allowance for a series of years, a grant for life is absurd. Why will you vote 800,000l. a-year, when you are not sure but 1,000,000l. or 1,200,000l. will be required? The public in this way must be losers. The allowance cannot be diminished, whatever happy change of circumstances should occur; and whenever there is a pretended occasion for increased expense their burthens are augmented. I am friendly to a grant for life; but it is of the essence of such a provision that it should be strictly limited. I would have his majesty's ministers suit the expenses to the provision, not the provision to the expenses. These appli, cations are founded upon quite a different principle, and suppose that the limitation of a particular sum by parliament is a mere form, and that every expense, how.