Son at the head of his class, intelligent, and will make a good Daughter the recipient of gold medal in mathematics, three subjects, and holder of a letter from board of education for ha per cent in English and grammar in three tests.

Money saved to provide against old age, none; but I trust the community has lost nothing by my family having lived.

That, gentlemen, is my argument.

Mr. DIES. That is a splendid argument; the best I have hea been a member of the committee.

Mr. GOLDSCHMIDT. It has all been prepared with the same idea Mr. ALCORN. Mr. Chairman, Mr. J. W. McConnell w on the question of retirement.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. McConnell.

STATEMENT OF MR. J. M. M'CONNELL, A FOREMAN IN GUN FACTORY AT WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. McCONNELL. I would like to say, Senator, in t that we are deeply appreciative of your interest in thi the motives which actuated you in calling this hearin the object of this hearing is to bring out by successive

ALVI IVlČ WIu ཨvསIV བསམ་

udgment that action should be taken at once upon tiring superannuates now in the civil service.

- What age limit would you fix, Mr. McConnell? L. Our ideas of the ultimate system would set the r voluntary retirement. We would also set the age h disability ceases and superannuation begins.

. You are like Dr. Osler. You would have a man en he passes 60.

L. Oh, no; but I do not think he should be retained he has to be assisted to his desk, and, when the stress I is done he has to be assisted to leave it. To take liate situation it is strongly recommended to your e present superannuates be retired upon a supportthat the problem of devising a permanent system of then be taken up more leisurely and with a great in can be given to it at this time.

1. Will you let me interrupt you a moment, Mr. was suggested that there were 7,000 that would be ed in the event of the passage of such a law. What at contemplate?

eventy.

No; there would be more if the limit were set at 65. hat is right.

L. No matter how many, they should be provided tion with that matter, we are only asking that Conretiring at a certain age limit, and also those who rtain degree of superannuation, to relieve them as icient and no longer profitable employees for the

. Would you have that determined by means of a tion? Would that be your idea of how to arrive at perannuated?

L. I would have that determined very easily by tal examination and by the evidence of the heads ts and the evidence of the employees themselves. I

would not be a loser, and the amount paid in pensions much smaller than the amount you would pay in sala annuated employees for services not performed. It is you were paying a high rate of interest on Governm retire them and reissue the bonds at a lower rate of int That is precisely what happens if the superannuate retired on a portion of his salary which you turn o the form of an annuity.

I wish to say briefly that I do not believe there would spread objection to the enactment of a retirement thing similar to the one represented in the Keating bill There are some provisions there which should and wou but it embodies practically what we desire at this tim the retirement of the present class of superannuates It is going to take a number of years to work out a satis ment system because the principles are not broadly und administrative officers of the Government are not i thorough understanding of the matter. Congress is to any great degree upon legislation of that kind, a facing a condition with offices choked with superannua and something must be done. For that reason we are most practical method now the retiring of the super supporting annuity.

The CHAIRMAN. How many civil-service employee were there on the 1st of January, 1917?

Mr. McCONNELL, Senator, in that connection I desir tion to the fact that we have in the United States Bureau of Efficiency. This bureau, under a Senate required and requested to get certain data concernin employees their ages, salaries, length of service, and pertaining to them, with the object of working out t retirement system that might be proposed. The bu ample time to get this data together for this specific I should be made public so that we may all see about wha

The city of New York has revised its pension sche an accurate estimate of its cost, based on facts and e

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except that she is one of the finest old ladies that e lost-money department of the Treasury. She is experts in the world, I reckon, in putting money mining what kind of a piece has been lost and the like; and the law authorizes it to be reproabsolutely retire her? She looks to me to be ould you require her to be retired?

. Senator, I believe everyone of the speakers has ental principle that nobody should be retired who ming his or her work.

I would not like to say as to that lady's age, but elderly lady and one of the most competent ones me in contact with. It was a perfect surprise to would have the marvelous capacity to put together clusion from the small facts that she had before arvel to me.

. Our first plan is to provide for superannuation, form work, to be determined by the report of ad3 and evidenced by an examination of the persons

You do not think it should be wholly voluntary ary, but determined upon the facts?

. Not for the present, but we want to get someelieve those who have to hobble to their desks. re goes past my house at 8 o'clock an old man on kes him an hour to reach his place of work at 9 now his name, but I do know from his appearance not perform the work he has to do.

You represent the industrial workers?

To some extent; yes.

You say the industrial workers are in a different those in the clerical forces are?

. That is my opinion, sir.

Do you think that the industrial workers would lan, such as an assessment plan?

Mr. MURPHY. I represent the Post Office Departmen ter. I have been in the Post Office and have seen it grov small affair to its present dimensions. I have been ther

The CHAIRMAN. If you are not ashamed of your age pose you tell us. I never tell mine. I am a bachelor, th son. What is your age, sir?

Mr. MURPHY. Sixty-seven.

The CHAIRMAN. All right; proceed.

Mr. MURPHY. The bill that we propose would not ernment anything. We only want this for the Postal S The CHAIRMAN. Has that bill been introduced? Mr. MURPHY. No; this bill

Mr. FLAHERTY. Mr. Murphy is referring to the Rous applying only to the Postal Service.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I am acquainted with it.

Mr. FLAHERTY. That bill has been referred to the Office Committee, of which you are a member, Senator, is not specifically in front of you this morning, yet I formation he can impart to you would be most useful. The CHAIRMAN. The clerk will procure the bill for m have it before us.

Mr. MURPHY. The bill we propose had at first 4 per cut it down to 2.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean 2 per cent assessment ployee?

Mr. MURPHY. Yes; and afterwards we cut it down now we find that 1 per cent from the employees in the s more than sufficient to carry it through, if there is any

There are about 140,000 in the Postal Service, and makes $140,000, or $1,680.000 in each year. Out of thi would retire on a scale of 25 years' service. Men will be 25 years' service so that about 4 per cent, after the flood is for the first time, would be dropped after 25 years' over 70 years of age would have to go, and it would b would be up to 90 years, if there are men of that age i from the first. Of course, the first year there will be