a very efficient body of men and women. Nothing d y quite as much as discrimination. Too frequently y observation that very efficient people have been di gainst, and that lowers the standard of efficiency. Th clerk is underpaid. Therefore, I believe that Congress mething to relieve the conditions that now exist in so departments, and take care of some of the superan and I would suggest that each department should e number of employees that they deem to be ineffici of physical condition as well as old age, and you then to get some idea of the amount of money that ssary to put this in operation. Only experience can he wisdom of any legislation that might be enacted we can not foresee exigencies that might arise. We ate the numbers to be retired or the money necessary this, and we can not by any deduction we might mal age limit or any tenure of office, because, I say, of th over 65 years of age, not over 31 are superannuated, recommend that they be retired.

tor RANSDELL. How many superannuated people wou Ir. Ralph, under 65?

RALPH. I should say that I would have more under 6 5. I find by reason of physical conditions that people 52 and 54 might exceed those over 65. I have 5,402 em bureau this morning. Two thousand nine hundred of th

I should say that of these people, the average age of ployees, would not exceed 40. Women come in at 21, r age limit is 35, entrance age limit for employees-and e 200 resignations a year from the women who find oth ent or get married. Just now we are very, very busy , and I find a great many of our employees are taking examinations and getting appointments in the depar ks. I am very glad to see any of my employees better The civil-service list has been exhausted twice. I lifficult to get expert people now. The condition of l

ght to be done to start and get some exnd to the committee that in order to fix hat we get some information from the è conclusion that a certain per cent of 170 years of age—might be retired each tion on what it would cost the Govern

upies a very peculiar position as an em-
er recognized by promotion. In private
attracts the attention of his employer
velope he finds an increase in it. In the
works on faithfully and zealously and
elderly clerk there getting $1,600 per-
- work he is performing for $1,000 or
Washington is a very expensive place
the punch and ambition out of a very de-
comes into the Government service than
h for a promotion. The entrance grade
ey work 6, 8, or 10 years before they get
y office who have rendered me the most
are only getting $1,000. The only way I
gement for their promotion is that the
o is holding down a desk at $1,600 may
will move up.

be manifested immediately because noth-
o much as a little recognition in the way
ely in the Government service we do not
ght say I am an employee of the Bureau
representing the Government; I am the
lo. They are stimulated in that way.
he wisdom of making a start to demon-
I believe would be good business policy
mployees. Men might come to me and
superannuated people in your bureau.
their discharge?" I could not do it. I

Miss CLEVE just wish to en other day as to their services Department p been 52 years active clerks i

not look to be and officials, in best years and clerks as when new clerk migh knowledge of experienced of

me work could be done for about half of what thes eceive.

CORN. Miss Cleveland, of the Treasury Department, › heard.

HAIRMAN. Very well; proceed, Miss Cleveland.

ENT OF MISS CYNTHIA E. CLEVELAND, EMPLOYEE OF DITOR FOR STATE AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS, TREA TMENT.

LEVELAND. Mr. Chairman and members of the commit - to emphasize the statement that Gen. McCain made he y as to clerks being forcibly separated from the service vices might be all right. We have recently in the Tre ent promoted a woman 85 years of age to $1,800, wh years in the service, one of the most efficient, diligent erks in the department. I know a woman of 80 that to be 60. There is a large proportion of people, both ials, in the department who are over 70, who are still in s and do not look to be over 35 to 50 years, twice as eff s when they entered the service, and twice as efficient a k might be after five years of service, with an experienc ge of the work that is invaluable. I have never hear ced official say that he would not rather have any o

careful study of this problem, and in the any of the bills and hearings that have in different parts of this country on this : your experience here is exactly similar as taken place almost everywhere in that y that you are dealing with an exceptionprincipal features bearing on Government alph has just pointed out. The financial ex than the financial problems of any of nizations, and the social problems and the vast importance to the employees. It will intimately connected with the question of yees. In fact, it is a part of the question he men are going to get who serve the ce whether it be in money wage or whether ployment or retirement benefits. I think ommittee and the knowledge of all of us associated with the executive departments e whole question of compensation of Govcomplete study, investigation, and over

entioned cases in which employees in his than employees doing equally good work have frequent cases where one department r from the civil service list at $50 a month will have an entrance salary for exactly th or, perhaps, $83.333.

rnment in dealing with its employees has progress in its method since the adoption of selection in 1883. It has entirely failed experience in personnel administration of tions. It has failed to take advantage of governments in handling their employees, east of the more progressive States and opment of adequate systems.

ployment in
tion of the p
be a represen
the three par
Government
tirement of C

on it, first, th
representativ
men from th
are familiar v
representativ
which they h
which the G
sisted by expe
involved may
In this con

report of the
idea of the
started witho
idea of the a
to present to
lishing the n
i pamphlet on
finally, I shou
System for tl
This is not th
itself, it is a
amine it very
tirement prov
has a scientifi
A commissi
great mass of
Brown, of the
present to Co
a retirement s

1777-17

in the civil service, and the whole question of admin e personnel of the Government. Such a commission s esentative commission. There should be representativ parties that are involved in the question of compensati ent employees and in this question of providing for th of Government employees. This commission should in t, the Members from the House and Senate who wou atives of the people. It should include on it represent the administrative departments of the Government iar with the actual administration, and it should also in atives of employees who know the social conditions ey have to work, how they have to manage on their sa e Government pays. That commission should also b experienced actuaries, so that the financial problems th may be studied carefully.

s connection I should like to present to the committe the pension fund of the city of New York, which giv the trouble which can arise when retirement system without careful, thorough, actuarial work, and also giv he amount of work which is involved. I should als at to the committee the act of the State of New York he new teachers' retirement system. There is also a t on points explaining the New York teachers' bill, should like to give you this pamphlet entitled "Retir for the teachers of the Commonwealth of Pennsylva ot the law of the State of Pennsylvania. It is not th is a description of the bill. I have not had a chance very carefully, but it seems to me that it is the faire provision that I have ever seen adopted anywhere, a entific actuarial basis.

mission such as I have mentioned would be able to tak ass of material and material that is being collected by of the Efficiency Bureau, and would be able to digest i to Congress a bill which would be the commission's bi ment system, because I agree with everybody practically

7-17-14