ide the service are pensioned. In conmarks frequently heard about Congresse reason, to favor the pension system bewould not approve. I think that is more e, as has been said, many municipalities many States do it 11 true, but you are mistaken about that. ing outside, especially, of Washington. ad of equitable pension system. It looks r more efficient government, and for that wn views are about it; no secret about it. k home thinks those who are fortunate nent service are reveling in every luxury they do and so much less hours of work, they have back there-take the men on men and women in the shops and in the irectly they are being taxed to pay for know nothing of that. st giving you what the real facts are a who live in the Government service are 10 doubt about that. A great many of many of them do. At the same time, I thing from the broad general principle ircumstances. That is what they think, wn views. e back home that think they are being ystem to the Government employee, anyte to put his helpless grandfather on the pay. know that anyone would not. That I am not to ask Mr. Neagle a question. Do you overnment should retire those at present Brown before any others wh deck. Senator Wo parison betwe Dr. JORDAN the Bureau of any uning eise. we have got to get these figures om fore we are able to proceed. In the meantime if there s who want to be heard, we will meet next Thursday a WOLCOTT. Has anyone collected figures showing the etween the Government salaries in certain lines of work aid by private concerns in similar or analogous line DAN. Senator Wolcott, that has been imposed by Cong Bureau of Efficiency, of which Mr. Brown is the head, thority to report these figures to Congress at the reg WOLCOTT. That rough material has been gathered an g systematized and correlated? OWN. For the actuarial work to determine the cost of other inquiry concerning comparative salaries in the service and outside, the facts are being collected in sepa and have a broad intimate relation to this problem. em as thought the question is as to who shall pay for and that would depend somewhat on whether the emplo compensated. WOLCOTT. Yes; unquestionably. HAIRMAN. I would like for you to get the figures if you ca ree of the Governments that already have systems in vo compare with them. In other words, if we are going to his kind we ought to do it with the fullest information. OWN. Yes, sir. HAIRMAN. And pass one that will last for all time, that t any question about, so far as that can be done. ROWN. Several years ago, Mr. Chairman, in cooperation au of Labor Statistics I collected figures concerning pr the foreign Governments and their pension schemes. HAIRMAN. You will have that ready, too? ROWN. Much of it is ready for publication and some of it lished. At the instance of the Bureau of Labor, Mrs. Bi private concerns. meantime I want everyone who is interested ething of material benefit to us in advising like for them to submit it next Thursday, tee desires above all things is to be entirely is matter. ned until next Thursday morning at 10 nittee adjourned until Thursday, July 26, Mr. RALP very glad of The oldest en superannuate The CHAI get those fig Mr. RALPH present: Mr. Joseph E. Ralph, Director of the Bureau o and Printing, and Hon. Porter H. Dale, M. C.; Mr. , Miss Cynthia E. Cleveland, Mr. John J. Deviney, an I. Alcorn. ommittee resumed the consideration of Senate bills 157 for the retirement of employees in the civil service. HAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. I was det War Department, on some urgent business. Who is th to be heard? OBERT H. ALCORN. The first one will be Mr. Ralph, Di Bureau of Engraving and Printing, Treasury Depart HAIRMAN. Very well; proceed, Mr. Ralph. ENT OF MR. JOSEPH E. RALPH, DIRECTOR OF THE BU OF ENGRAVING AND PRINTING. ALPH. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. d of an opportunity to assist you by any information I to your committee after many years experience as a Go ployee and in administrative work. I regret that I di e time to prepare my remarks, but with your permiss d to the clerk of the committee some statistical data t ought to be incorporated. in favor of a retirement bill. My experience in an adı capacity for 14 years leads me to believe that the effic rganization would be materially improved by retiring s d people. I hurriedly ran over my index cards before co find that we have 147 people who are 65 years of age or est employee is 83 years of age. Of those 147 people wh s of 65 years of age, I would say that I have 30 inef nuated people. CHAIRMAN. How many are over 70? Did you have ti se figures? RALPH. I will give you the figures. as we conduct. e that I have fewer inefficient people in the in some of the departments, for the reason ave some physical labor to perform. They t soon develops that they are not able to d they come to me and admit it, and I find hich necessarily carries with it some reducake care of all of our people in that way, I therefore would not recommend fixing in I would fix a tenure of office. I think believe the Government ought to take care ple, and I would suggest that I am going ment the number of people I deem ineffihat it would cost to retire employees in our ou put in there what you think you could r, too? t? ne work done by new employees? at is not true in our bureau. Of course, I e to observe. I have got about 168 clerks y clerks perform more labor and receive y clerks in the Government service. Our has increased 165 per cent, and I have 10 years ago. So, it proves that our clerks iciency so as to eliminate the necessity of rks to take care of the increased work. ar because we must close up our work each partments it is possible that a clerk who day can accumulate his work on his desk do that. We must close up and balance to impress upon you what that means, I cing now bonds, interim certificates, gold eral reserve notes, and national bank cur they are a V efficiency qu been my ob nated again ernmet cler! to do somet reason of p 50 and 52 ar average 200 ployment o bureau, and service exan as clerks. 1 selves. The very difficul |