pass

ision granting the heads of every one of the department ment power to create a committee to pass on these c that is impossible. I think that we should here, in a leg ty, state that there shall be created a board for this ] the appointments, let the President appoint them, t of the Senate, or, for that matter, name them in the le for their successors. I think the proper thing to do is d appointed for all. I have studied this thing for a goo

. MCCAIN. That is a detail, Senator, that can be worke ator SMOOт. Yes.

. MCCAIN. The main interest I have is to provide a wa of the clerk who has ceased to give full value to the Gov ot to turn him loose in his old age.

CHAIRMAN. How would you pay for it, General?

1. MCCAIN. I would have the Government pay for it. e CHAIRMAN. The whole amount, and no contributions? 1. MCCAIN. The whole amount, without any contribut A base it, we will say, for instance, that you are going to ain percentage of his pay at the date of retirementit that way-but base it on the average pay he has rec st ten years. That will prevent

e CHAIRMAN (interposing). You mean, if there was no n?

n. MCCAIN. Yes. If you retire them on 75 per cent, a the clerk's pay at the date of retirement-base it on 75 e average pay for the last 10 years, as I stated, that wo the sudden promotion of anybody.

nator SMOOт. General, you would prefer, however, to ha lation with some contributory plan than none at all? n. MCCAIN. Yes.

he CHAIRMAN. Your idea is that it is very much needed ernment?

en. MCCAIN. Yes; because I have clerks I can not tur ould be inhuman.

nator SMOOт. Doing the Government no service at all.

nany?

Thirty are over 70 years of age.

s talking to Senator Smoot and got that rdon.

Seventy are over 65 years of age-I beg the figures; 44 are over 70 years of age; it

many altogether?

Nine hundred and fifty-two. Now, we hat The Adjutant General was just stating. ho are very efficient and could hardly be good many who if they were retired-for etired we could put in one good, well-paid th the difference between their retired and no would do the work better. I do not bemy own experience goes, that the retireway left to the discretion of the heads of ee entirely with Senator Smoot's suggestion eneral board, which would take care of these le whose services are invaluable, and there

at there to be any preliminary work in the minary hearing of any kind before the debe entirely extraneous?

Of course, the recommendation of the dest weighty with the board.

essarily would be.

It necessarily would. And there ought to question of retirement is passed on without g either by the head of the office or by the t simply in mind the possibility of feeling of v: there is a humiliation which comes from anuated and retired, which humiliation will

on as a cопапион от retirement when the peopre oug at once. I do not know whether that has been

ator SMOOт. That could be taken care of in any legislat be even submitted, and particularly will it be taken c passes and becomes a law.

missioner EWING. Yes; because there are many instanc at time. There is one aspect of this business that I thin e mentioned. It is not merely that the elderly people ca d work as they have been doing. There is a certain di that comes about from their being there. They ca s strictly to the work, and the younger people are like the same sort of treatment for themselves. They talk for they like to reminisce. They are people of dignity, sy to discipline them, and the mere removal of them would enable the application of a stricter discipline. that point of view I think the retirement plan would

n glad to answer any questions that you wish to ask, bu iven very much study to the matter, as it does not com ary work.

e CHAIRMAN. We are very glad, indeed, to have your vi nissioner.

. ALCORN. Mr. Satterfield, of the Department of Justic -o be heard, Mr. Chairman.

e CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad, indeed. to hear Mr

TATEMENT OF MR. CALVIN SATTERFIELD, CHIEF OF DIVISION OF ACCOUNTS, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

. SATTERFIELD. Mr. Chairman, the Department of Justi e that is not very much affected at the present time. It in the department about 16 employees or clerks that of whom are 70 and over, and out in the field we possi 30.

1777-17- -12

ly one or two unfit for work. We lost one or nd one of them was over 80-83-and he has work for several years, but he considered that o live on, and he stayed on.

here is anything that I could add, except that act itself ought to say what is necessary to be and any mooted questions should be left to provided. Let the board inquire into and conse. That is all I have to say.

are very much obliged to you. We will hear

HENRY P. BIRMINGHAM, OFFICE OF THE
GENERAL, WAR DEPARTMENT.

would like to say that Gen. Gorgas is out of come here and represent him. I have very Gen. McCain has already told the committee. rly the needs of the clerks of the War Departadd to it. The conditions are much the same very much similar in the Surgeon General's ant General's.

many employees are there in the Surgeon

couldn't state just now, Mr. Chairman. We
any lately, and I came here unprepared.
e you any that are incapable of working?
hey are all doing some work Mr. Chairman,
re is an old man 80 years of age—I forget his
nths has been unable to do anything, and of
ay. It is a sad case and one of the cases that
he action you gentlemen of the committee

favor this kind of legislation?

are at the
are render
service.
een reall
men year a
becomes in

carry then

unable to ciency of be made t man name He was re on duty a

that he co

service he

but to disc place, a te

who had to not do the I am qui

of straight

I think he retirement viduals wo

a year pas ency. I d departmen The CH Senator have to be stay longer The CH

སཥུ

་་་ Mu

any of them have been getting the higher rates of pay 1 as $1,800, but due to age and infirmity they have slo ve been reduced in compensation until they now, most o he lower rates. Of 49 in our office perhaps 60 per cent C dering fair service; 40 per cent are rendering hard

The office has followed the policy that I presum eally about a sort of unauthorized pension of reducin ar after year from a higher to a lower grade as their ef es impaired, until we finally get them at the lower ra them on, and although they show up in the office th to render much service. That accordingly impairs t of the office, and some provision I am quite certain or de to remove that defect. I have in mind a tragic ca amed Ming, who has had nearly 40 years' service as pack as reduced from $100 a month to $60, later to $40, and ty at Fort Huachuca as watchman. He became so d e could not render service as a watchman; after 40 e he was dropped in March last, as we had no other r discharge him, and there is a case of another man at th a teamster, for 35 years, faithful, efficient, and hard w ad to be dropped, as there was no place to put him. H o the work or render any service.

m quite certain that the Quartermaster General favors t aight pensions-that is, the Government to pay all of th k he does favor the idea of a central board passing up ment of the individuals. Of course the names of thos Is would reach the central board from the office report passing upon the qualifications of these men and thei I do not think the Quartermaster General is in favor tment board. I do not think there is anything else I have CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you.

ator SMOOт. Mr. Chairman, I will ask you to excuse 1 to be in the Senate to present a resolution. I would onger but I will have to go to the Senate.

CHAIRMAN. Very well, Senator.