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highways alone, and the business we have in and around Dayton is not on national highways.

Mr. Beardslee has referred to the standard they are proposing to use in St. Louis, and I am glad to say that in Wilmington, Ohio, which is one of our properties having a population of 5000, we have two 5 lamp standards, equipped in the same manner, in front of a bank building. Each standard has four side lamps and there is a reflector on top which throws the illumination upon the building

I think we were all interested in what Mr. Seelman had to say regarding their business in Brooklyn I had an opportunity to make a study of their proposition when I was in Brooklyn in January, but in this as in many other matters that are discussed on this floor, we cannot all agree, and apparently Mr. Scherok has the same idea a number of the members of this Committee have, that merchant lighting as followed in Brooklyn is not the best thing in every city.

Mr. Macbeth's suggestion regarding the method of re eiving help from manufacturers' engineers is a dover one, and Mr. Young, a member of this Committee, has also brought up some god points. The portance of atten hing neetings I. personally, think is great and it is something that we, in the different communities we serve insist upon Our different superintendents attend the coun il meetings, not only with the idea of getting street lighting, but also of keeping in torch with the governing by in the muni pality.

LIGHTING-A BY-PRODUCT OR A BUY

PRODUCT

BY WILLIAM A DURGIN

DISCUSSION

CHAIRMAN BECKER: I think Mr. Durgin's reception and the applause he has received for his masterly presentation of this important subject are evidence of our appreciation. Mr. Durgin is an optimist. A pessimist is a fellow who says, "Is there any milk in the pitcher?" An optimist says, "Please pass me the cream." I think he has passed us a treat in great shape, and our appreciation has been marked by our demonstration.

MR. BEARDSLEE: This has been a wonderful demonstration of what we should have in electric lighting and I think all of us have had in mind the same thought during this lecture. We would like to take this lecture home with us and give it to every employee in our companies; we would like to give it, with some changes, to the people in our cities. Now, I want to suggest to our Executive Committee that it take up for serious consideration the question of having the lecture arranged for delivery before the employees of our different companies. I think it is a thing we should have.

MR. MACBETH: This certainly was a splendid demonstration, but don't forget the point Mr. Durgin most desires to drive home. It was a demonstration for central station men. They are the men who need it. You cannot afford to go to the general public at this time and stimulate them toward better lighting. The difficulty of the situation is that the general public are now relatively over stimulated in lighting.

What would your power men do now if you said, "Gentlemen, due to the remarkable progress in our field we now have apparatus available that enables us to deliver power service at a saving of 85 percent over what you have been charging your customers." Would they run away from it? No. Would they (See abstract, Author's Index)

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seek other outlets for their service, remarking that power business would no longer pay? But under exactly similar conditions they run away from lighting.

Lighting is the hardest thing to sell if you don't know how to deliver it, and it is the central station man and the contractor the men that I characterize as the "men in-between" the manufacturer and the consumer, who must be trained and educated, who need a better appreciation of every word that has been brought out here. Most of all, they need to be straightened out on the point that although lighting service is not expensive, it nevertheless requires expert attention to insure its proper use. We have power salesmen and expert engineers because they wore found to be necessary in assisting to deliver to the customer the service he needed The techn abties of power engineering were beyond the average e nsumer So are the technicalities of light ing, and, with a few exceptions, they are also beyond the central station salesman of today His education in the use of light is but little in a Ivance of the consumer's and as a consequen e he feels that the consummer may well be left to arrange his own installation.

Mr. Durgen's lecture is for central station men and it fully instifies his statement that the consumer ein he sold several times the kilowatt hours he is now buying if the central station men will quality in the delivery of 14 ting service Tat men hours are not expensive is a decided advant age Why not recognize the station fr ink'y? Take the cat italization of the dollar the consumer wants to save on S 1mg bils Ile da"ar save! on 1.bring will not buy any more than a du” r's worth of other merchandise and there are many

ray be more easily saved There isn't a thing that co our hoe es that is as inexpensive as effective ele # 1 Incidentally, there is no comment on in 1 ̧****

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considered what you pay for furniture, for rugs and the other necessaries and luxuries in your house?" Check up the service you get for a dollar in lighting with anything you buy, and then see how easily you may save many dollars in places where the pinch will not be as evident as in your lighting service. If you want to sell lighting service you must know what it is, live with it, use good lighting yourself.

I was talking with a publicity man a while ago about writing copy and I made the suggestion that he become familiar with his products. He said, "I don't know that that is a good suggestion, that I can carry it into practice. I had to prepare copy last winter on a heater. I took a heater home with me, set my alarm clock for six o'clock on Sunday morning, jumped out of bed in the cold room and turned on the heater, then went back to bed until nine o'clock. When I got up that darned room was just as cold as ever." What was the result? It made it hard to write convincing sales copy for heaters. Some heaters were sold, but where they were purchased for heating cold rooms they were a failure. They might have been a success had they been sold to take the chill off a room that was not cold. If you will only take your lighting stuff and live with it, become familiar with the finer points, with what it is worth, try some of it out in terms of the dollar you spend for anything else, you will have no trouble in selling it.

As a matter of fact, lighting salemanship is rarely as necessary as a sufficient familiarity with your product to properly inform the consumer. You don't sell to him anyway. He merely wants to buy and will buy if you can only tell him what you have. He needs good lighting service badly and knows he needs. it. In very few instances however, does he know where to get it, and in still fewer cases is it possible for him to find a central station man who is not indifferent to the needs of the situation. and who does not believe that lighting is too expensive to use properly and too cheap as a sales proposition for him to bother with. Rather a paradox.

MR. ARTHUR WILLIAMS, New York City: In my opinion not a word can be added to the paper to which we have just listened. It seems to me the most comprehensive and valuable contribution to the subject to which I have ever listened. I am

very gratified to have reached Chicago in time to hear the paper, to have listened to the eloquence of the speaker and seen the practical demonstration which he so ably presented It is a singularly in portant contribution to our industry. Mr Chairman, I think that all I might add in the way of contribution is to move a special vote of thanks and that such a vote be recorded upon the manutes of the Convention.

(Motion seconded and carried)

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