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Gentleman to say that the purchases were lieved that they had the opportunity, in a made unfairly? There was not a particle pecuniary point of view, of receiving all of correctness in what the hon. and learned that they could wish; and the body of the Gentleman had said on the point. Nor proprietors unanimously agreed to listen were the purchases hastily made. In re-lo no terms, to take no money, which ference to this matter the public would : might compromise the safety of the setfind all the information bearing upon it in tlers. He ventured to assert that the the letter of Mr. Wakefield. He detailed safety of the colonists had been, was, and the manner in which the purchases had ever should be, the main object of the been made, and goods and money were Company. Satisfy them that the colonists fairly paid to the parties who sold the were safe, and they cared but little what land. What right, then, had the Attorney was done with them. They besought General to say that the purchases were Lord Stanley to settle other matters as he unfairly made ? In no one instance bad pleased, but to settle the land question at the Commissioners of Claims said that such once, and in the way which we conceived had been the case. The Company liad, to be alone the proper way. They took he believed, paid about 7,9001. as an ad- the agreement coupled with an express ditional compensation, in one case, at Nel- condition, that the grant should be made son, and all for the goodwill of the land. immediately. He would only sav, that As to the emigrants, they went out with a nothing had ever been concealed by the full knowledge of all the facts connected Company, and if the House wished for inwith the Colony. The Company did not formation nothing would be concealed. deceive them. Every particle of informa- With respect to what the hon. Baronet the tion which the Company had at its dispo- Member for Oxford (Sir R. Inglis) said as sal was published to the world. The emi- to his (Mr. Aglionby's) saying that the grants knew how and why they went out; missionaries had entirely under their connor had he yet heard any complaint made trol that portion of the island which was by them of the Company's proceedings. now the seat of disturbance, he had put it They complained of ruined hopes, of loss in the shape of a question to the Under of property, and of the want of safety to Secretary, and he could not deny it. It their lives ; but it was not of the Company was urged by the hon. Baronel that this they complained. In all its proceedings, showed the animus which actuated the the Company had ever preferred a pacific Company in regard to the missionaries. course, and in no one instance had it exhi. He (Mr. Aglionby) believed that Mr. bited any feeling but a desire to obtain Baring's Bill in that House had been peace, at any sacrifice but that of loss of thrown out by the influence of the Church honour. They preferred taking an agree. Missionary Society. That Society was ment (which was a compromise) to going managed by Mr. Dandeson Coates. That to a court of law. The Company took the gentleman asserted, on a subsequent day, agreement, and were satisfied with it. that so long as he could oppose it, New Who dared to say that the noble Lord the Zealand should never be colunized by the Member for London (Lord John Russell) Company. His opposition to the Comwas misled by what were called the inis- pany still continued, and it was a strong representations of the Company ? Every and powerful opposition. He had, at an document which they had at command, early period of the Session, called the atwas then, as now, at the command of the tention of the House to a fact, which he Colonial Office. The noble Lord knew would now beg leave to state again. He very well what he was about, and the had received a letter, or rather circular, Company were perfectly satisfied with his and a similar circular had been received by agreement. It was true, that when the many others; and when he stated its purCourt of Claims was established, they did port, he would ask whether the opposition not assent. Colonel Wakefield said, that, manifested in it, did not justify him in in his belief, the agreement of the noble saying, that the difficulties of the ComLord rendered the Court of Claims inappli- pany were greatly to be attributed to the cable to the case. To settle the question, opposition of Mr. Dandeson Coates? The they had placed upwards of 7,0001, in the hon, and learned Gentleman then read the hands of their agent. The peace, the circular, requesting the party to whom it harmony, and the prosperity of the settle- was addressed to present

Member ment was the main consideration with the for Cockermouth, and to desire him to use Company. The Company certainly be- his influence in order that the Members


might oppose the recommendation of the ferent districts, where their influence was Select Committee who had reported upon paramount; and he could easily conceive the state of New Zealand and the affairs the motives of their objection to colonizaof tļie Company. It was signed by John tion by any one but themselves. The third D. White. [Sir R. Inglis: It was not and the worst class were actuated solely by from Mr. Coates ?] No. [Sir R. Inglis : their wishes for their own selfish aggranNor from the Church Missionary Society?] dizement, who had set aside the instructions The hon. Baronet now wished to insinuate of the Society, and who had procured for that he was grossly in error, and was themselves large and extensive grants of grossly misleading the House, when he land. The Church Missionary Society mentioned that document as a proof that were not, as a body, large holders of land, Mr. Coates and the Church Missionary although they had about 11,000 acres. Society were still in opposition to the The missionaries to whom he now more claims of the New Zealand Company? He immediately alluded, had obtained nearly would now ask the hon. Baronet who Mr. 200,000 acres of land in New Zealand. White was? He would ask him now- These parties likewise had a direct personal

Sir R. Inglis: Did the hon. and learned interest, with Mr. George Clarke at their Gentleman wish him to interrupt him a head, and Mr. George Clarke, jun. ; they Second time? If so, he would give him an had a direct personal and pecuniary interest answer. If not, he would wait till the in the northern part of the island. He hon. and learned Gentlemen had done. would now ask the Government whether,

Mr. Aglionby would ask, for the informa- notwithstanding these missionaries, they tion of the House, who Mr. White really would or would not colonize New Zea. was? He would likewise ask, in reference land ? It was their duty now

to carry to Mr. Dandeson Coates, if the circular forward colonization to the advantage of quoted had been sent forth without his all parties and classes-natives and white knowledge or direction? The circular was persons. In addition to what he had thus written on the part of the Church Mission- advanced, he felt himself obliged to rise, ary Society. Did the hon. Baronet mean to trouble the House upon a matter of prito disavow Mr. White's proceeding - did vate and personal honour, which had been he mean to deny that Mr. Coates, either confided to his charge, and which, if he did directly or indirecily, sent the letter ? not bring before the House, he would feel Did he mean to deny that the Church Mis- himself guilty of a grievous dereliction of sionary Society did not cause it to be sent? his duty; and the House would pardon him If so, let him at once inform the House of it. for trespassing longer on their attention, It was sent with the cognizance, or by the when they called to mind how deep an inauthority of Mr. Coates, or of the Church terest he took in the Colony, and in all Missionary Society. In accordance with the those connected with it. What he was now Church Missionary Society, its mission about to bring before the House, was a aries in the Colony had a direct interest in matter of a more delicate and painful charobstructing colonization by any one but acter than any to which he had as yet althemselves. The missionaries might be luded. He had listened to the representadivided into three classes :—First, there tions of the Under Secretary with some were those who went out from the most surprise and pain. He did not think, howhighminded, the purest, and the most be ever, that he was personally called upon, nevolent of motives, and who thought that by anything which bad fallen from the the introduction of any European society Under Secretary, to make any remark; into the Colony would introduce with it but a letter had been sent to him, in conEuropean arts and luxuries, and with them sequence of these remarks on the part of European vices, and thus obstruct the the Under Secretary; and as the matter christianizing and civilizing the natives of deeply affected the character and the hoNew Zealand ; such men he could respect. nour of a gentleman of high character, and There was another class, not quite so high. formerly a Member of that House, he minded, but who had not the base pecu- was quite sure the House would forgive niary interest which others had. They him for calling their attention to the subformed a considerable body of the mission-ject, and reading the letter. It was signed aries, and were honest and intelligent me- by George Frederick Young, one of the chanics, who went out to preach the doc- members of the deputation who waited on trines of the Church Missionary Society. Lord Stanley about a fortnight ago, and They reigned as little kings in their dit- was as follows:VOL. LXXXII. {Series}

2 F

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"I have just heard, with equal surprise and placed almost in antagonism with Lord Stanley pain, the unqualified denial given by Mr. on a point of veracity. I have the most uniHope, on the part of Lord Stanley, of the as. hesitating confidence that his Lordship is ut. sertion made by the Directors of the New terly incapable of asserting intentionally an Zealand Company, that the fact of his Lord untruth. Those to whom I am known will, I ship having given instructions to Captain am sure, do me equal justice; and I must, Grey to grant primâ facie titles to the lands therefore, leave this unlucky discrepancy in claimed by the Company, was not communi- our statements to be reconciled in any manner cated by him to the deputation with whom the that Mr. Hope's declarations and this explarecent conferences have been held. As his nation may allow to be compatible with hoLordship is represented by Mr. Hope as de- nour, which, on my art, I commit to your claring on his honour that he did read those friendship, assured that you will not allow it instructions to the deputation, it is, of course, to be in any quarter impeached." impossible for me to contradict such an asser- He regretted that he was obliged to read tion; but I owe it to my colleagues and to such a letter to the House ; but he must myself equally unequivocally to declare that, having taken an active and attentive part in remark, that he was sure that when hon. the proceedings, I never heard a syllable, or

Gentlemen saw that so doing was necessary saw a letter, referring in any way to a grant to clear the honour and the character of of conditional titles, to which, as a member any Gentleman whose honour and charof the Court of Directors, I have ever been so acter were implicated by anything which decidedly opposed; that, had the principle fell from any hop. Gentleman in that been attempted to be revived in my hearing, House, they would admit that he had done I should have considered it the first of duties right in introducing both the subject and to have rejected it, and protested against it in the letter. He would only now say that the strongest manuer. One thing at least is certain. I waited on Mr. Wood, at the Land Mr. Young made the same statement to and Emigration Office, by desire of Lord them when the papers were transmitted to Stanley, an hour previous to the time fixed for them, and he now repeated his full assurthe last interview of the deputation, and there ance that he never heard of the other doreceived from Mr. Wood a paper, which he cument. He had no reason to doubt the stated to me was a copy of the instructions to perfect accuracy, so far as his recollection Captain Grey on the subject of the Company's served him, of the Under Secretary. The land claims. That paper I communicated to my colleagues, and afterwards returned to despatch of the 26th of June was confined Lord Stanley at the interview. It was the in

to two or three points; one, the settlement structions of the 6th of July, and contained of the Company's claims to the land, the no reference whatever to those of the 27th of other points referring to the government June. When the latter was transmitted to the of the Colony, whereas that of the 6th of Company, in supposed conformity with the July was confined solely and wholly to the promise given by Lord Stanley, I instantly claims to land. In the letter, enclosing pronounced them to be totally different ; and the despatch of the 27th of June, it was in order to clear up the question, went on stated that the deputation had that day an Thursday last to the Colonial Office, where I saw Mr. Hope, and told him that I had an im- interview with Lord Stanley, and that his pression, amounting to absolute conviction, Lordship placed in the hands of the depuihat they were not the same, and only hesitation the instructions issued to Captain lated positively to affirm it from an unwilling- Grey on the subject of the Company's claim ness to admit the possibility of intentional to land. Having stated this much he would substitution. And, in order to remove all doubt, I asked to see the original document, other remark.

now resume his seat, without oflering anplaced in my hands on the 4th of July, and returned to Lord Stanley... On its being cries for a division were so loud and so

Sir R. Inglis rose to explain, but the brought, I immediately identified it; and it is not pretended that it contained any refer- general, that the hon. Baronet's explanation ence to the instructions of the 27th of June. did not reach us. Mr. Hope then said, that these latter papers Mr. G. W. Hope begged to be allowed 'had been sent in a hurry by mistake," and to offer a very short explanation as to what permitted me to take with me the instructions had fallen from the hon. and learned Genof July 6, without the slightest intimation tleman. As the House would perceive, if That he supposed I was acquainted with the they looked at the Papers, there were exo:hers, which again I declare, upon my honour, I was not. I write in great haste, but hope tracts, and there was also a complete demy explanation will be intelligible. It is spatch. The complete despatch was placed truly mortifying to me, after the especial pains in the hands of the deputation, and was I thought I had taken to avoid any repetition taken away by the deputation. That was of former misunderstandings, to find myself the document which Mr. Young had had

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in his hand. When application was made / acter of the Constitution, and moved that for the extracts, it was pointed out to him, it be read a third time that day three in the minutes of the meeting, that his months. Lordship had placed in the hands of the

Colonel Sibthorp entirely agreed with meeting the instructions to Captain Grey. his hon. Friend the Member for the UniHe (Mr. Hope) consequently directed the versity of Oxford, whom he regarded as a extracts only to be sent. Mr. Young al- true Christian and Protestant. He would leged that they were not what he had pos- always be happy to record his vote with session of, to ihich he had answered that his hon. Friend against any measure introit certainly was not. There was no inten- duced by the right hon. Baronet ; and there tion to deceive Mr. Young or anybody was no measure which he did not believe else.

the right hon. Baronet, as a Minister, caDebate adjourned.

pable of introducing for the spoliation and

ruin of the Protestant Church. SLAVE TRADE (BRAZILS).) On the Mo- The House divided on the Question, tion for going into Committee on the Slave that the word "now" stand part of the Trade (Brazils) Bill,

Question :---Ayes 44; Noes 11 : Majority Mr. M. Gibson, looking at the Bill as a

33. penal act against the Brazilians, thought

List of the Ayes. it of importance that all the correspondence Aglionby, II. A. Hume, J. relating to it should be laid on the Table Baring, rt, bin. W. B. Hutt, W. of the flouse, and with this view moved Bentinck, Lord G. Kelly, Fitz Roy its committal on a future day, in order to

Bowes, J.

Lincoln, Earl of give the Government an opportunity of

Bowring, Dr.

MI'Neill, D.
Brisco, M.

Masterman, J.
producing the correspondence.
Sir R. Peel said, that any delay in pass-Cardwell, É.

Brotherton, J.

Moffatt, G.

Morris, D. ing the Bill through its stages would be Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. Muntz, G. F. most prejudicial to the public service. The Cripps, w.

Nicholl, rt. hon. J. main part of the correspondence alluded to Ferguson, Sir R. A. Northland, Visct. was in the Slave Trade Papers. He would Fitzroy, hon. I. O'Connell, M. J. postpone the third reading of the Bill, if Flower, Sir J. Pechell, Capt. the House would consent to the Committee Forster, M.

Peel, rt. hon. Sir R. being taken, so as to give time to look into Goulburn, rt, hon. H. Smith, rt. hn. T. B.C.

Fremantle, rt. hn.Sirt. Pusey, P. the correspondence. Mr. Milner Gibson said, he should not Greene, T.

Graham, rt, hn, Sir J. Somerville, Sir W. M.

Thesiger, Sir F. be performing his duty if he allowed the Hamilton, W. J. Warburton, H. Bill to proceed, and moved that the Com- Hamilton, Lord C. Wawn, J. T. mittee be postponed till Friday.

Ilawes, B. Sir R. Peel then proposed that the Bill Herbert, it. hon. S. now be committed pro formâ, so that the Ilinde, J. II, Young, J. Amendments be printed, the right hon. Howard, 2. II. Mackenzie, W.F. Baronet undertaking to move that it should

List of the Noes. be recommitted on Thursday. He had | Acland, T. D.

Hope, A. doubts as to the propriety of producing the Borthwick, P. Pringle, A. notice given by the Brazilian Government Buller, Sir J. Y. Spooner, R. of the termination of the Convention, and Darby, G.

Tollemache, J. but he would make inquiry, and if, "pon Ilenley, J. W. all the correspondence upon the subject; Dawnay, hon. W. II.

Dickinson, F. II. Inglis, Sir R. H. consideration, he founil that the Papers

Sibthorp, Col. could not be produced, the debate could

Bill read a third time and passed. be taken on some day subsequent to Thurs- Ilouse adjourned at two o'clock. day. Bill went through Committee pro forma


Tuesday, July 22, 1845. Jrwisy DISABILITIES] Sir R. Peel



MINUTES.] BILLS Public.-18. Church Discipline Act

Repeal; Railways (Selling or Leasing) ; Highways ; moved that the Jewish Disabilities Bill be read a third time.

9. Geological Survey; Silk Weavers. Sir Robert Inglis protested against the

Reported.---Art L'nions ; Militia Ballots Suspension ; Turn

pike Acts Continuance; Unlawful Oaths (Ireland); Cola Bill as inconsistent with the Christian char

leges (Ireland).

Bonded Corn.



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3. and passed :-Loan Societies ; Apprehension of Of- entering into the discussion of a measure fenders: Turnpike Trusts (South Wales) ; Highway which had been rejected in the other House Private.-1a. Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings Railway of Parliament, and which had not come (Hastings, Rye, and Ashford Extension).

under their Lordships' consideration. 20. Yoker Road (No. 2); Dublin Pipe Water; South

Lord Campbell repudiated the idea of
Eastern Railway (Tunbridge to Tunbridge Wells); Bir-
mingham and Gloucester Extension Railway (Stoke reviving a law that had been allowed to
Branch); Shrewsbury and Holyhead Road; Marquess lie dormant for more than a century; and
of Westminster's Estate.

under which his esteemed friend Sir David
Reported.Gravesend and Rochester Railway ;
Eastern Railway (Greenwich Extension); Londonderry Brewster—a man whose reputation was
and Coleraine Railway; Cromford Canal.

European - was in danger of being turned
34. and passed :—Lutwidge's (or Fletcher's) Estate; Ta-
cumshin Lake Embankment; Aberdeen Railway; Ber-

out of his office.
mondsey Improvement; Sheffield Waterworks; Edin-
burgh and Hawick Railway; Edinburgh and Northern

Railway; Caledonian Railway ; Clydesdale Junction
Railway; Dundee and Perth Railway; Newcastle and

WESTERN RAILWAY.] Lord Brougham Berwick Railway; Scottish Central Railway; London said, he had a question of privilege on and South Western Metropolitan Extension Railway ; which to claim their Lordships' attention,

Scottish Midland Junction Railway.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From General Assembly of Free

which, of course, had precedence of all Church of Scotland, and from Haddington, and several others, including that which his noble other places, in favour of the Universities (Scotland) Bill: Friend had just brought under their noFrom Presbytery or Synod of Munster, in favour of

tice. the Colleges (Ireland) Bill.

It was known to their Lordships,

that he was one of those--forming, he Scottish UNIVERSITIES.] The Mar- feared, a minority in their Lordships' quess of Breadalbane presented several pe- House-who entirely disapproved -- who titions from places in Scotland, praying for on principle disapproved-of all violent and the abolition of all religious tests in the forcible exercise of what were called the Scottish Universities. One of the petitions privileges—but what he would call rather was from the General Assembly of the the powers than the privileges of ParliaFree Church of Scotland, which embodied ment; and that, consequently, he confined several resolutions in which the exclusion his objections to the exercise of those priof all religious tests was not advocated, but svileges, to certain cases where they were in which the petitioners expressed them- not used in the nature of remedies, or reselves strongly against the exclusive system moval of obstructions; but that he, at the now sought to be revived by the members same time, constantly—and so did many of the Established Church in that country. noble Lords, noble Friends of his, who He begged, in presenting these petitions, agreed with him—entirely approved, as to express his sincere regret, that the mea- of necessity they must approve, of the exsure which had been brought forward in istence and exercise of privilege, where it the other House of Parliament for remedy- was confined to removing obstructions to ing this grievance, had been lost by the their Lordships' proceedings. Whether the opposition of Her Majesty's Government; case which he was about to bring before though they had originally expressed them their Lordships fell within that description selves favourable to it. The Scotch Col- or not, he would not say; but after the leges would now afford education to but a course which had been recently taken comparatively small portion of the popula- within the present Session, and only a few tion; whereas, if the Bill to which he had days ago, he felt it to be his bounden duty, alluded had passed, they would be able to that he should, even if he were not the afford the most important benefits to the person individually concerned in this people generally. In his opinion, the breach of privilege, bring it under their speech of the noble Lord opposite (Lord Lordships' aitention. It was necessary to Stanley), in introducing the Irish Colleges state, before he read to the House a stateBill, was the very best introduction that ment which had been published in a newscould have been made to a measure for paper, that they took notice elsewhere, as Scotland.

he was informed by common report, not Lord Stanley denied that the Govern- only of what passed in their Lordships' ment had acted inconsistently with regard House, but even in their Select and Secret to Ireland and Scotland. They required no Committees, designating the very persons new test in the latter country; and they who had spoken, and commenting on the expressed their determination to maintain speeches made. He did not choose to the existing test in the case of the Univer

retaliate by taking any notice whatever of sity of Dublin. He must, however, decline what passed in the other House, unless he

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