hon. and learned Gentleman had pointed out a discrepancy between the promise and the fulfilment of it. [Mr. C. Buller; Hear.] By that cheer the hon. and learned Gentleman seemed to recognise his accuracy. But the hon. and learned Gentleman had in reading the despatch omitted one whole sentence. If the hon. Member read the whole of the despatch, he would find that there was no such discrepancy as the hon. and learned Gentleman mentioned, for it contained a statement that there were, at the time at which it was written, many objections to the plan, one of which was the condition of the natives. Did the hon. Member mean to say that he would include the natives of New Zealand in the representative Government? If so, the Europeans would be in a minority. Would he then exclude them from the plan? How, then, in that case, could they be considered as their fellow subjects under one system? The discrepancy to which the hon. Member alluded, between the conduct of Lord Stanley and the promise of his right hon. Friend at the head of the Government did not, in his opinion, exist. For his own

port to the Government in this Motion, as he had so often given them on former similar occasions.

had not exhibited a courtesy and self-devo- | tion which had not often been equalled since the days of Bayard, and which cer tainly had not been excelled? The hon. and learned Member for Liskeard could no longer look upon New Zealanders as children or savages; and as a further indication of the condition in which that people were, he (Sir R. Inglis) would remind the House that during the late disturbances there, a young woman and her child, who were taken by the New Zealanders--by those whom we in the self assumption of our pride call savages—was restored, unharmed, and without insult, by a flag of truce; and that two English officers, who were taken by the native chief, were sent back without having received any injury, and returned in such a manner as many other countries would not have returned them, namely, with their arms-their swords and pistols having been left with them. Let the House recollect what would have been the character of that war if it had taken place thirty years ago; and then he would ask, was not the influence of Christianity and of the exertions of the missionaries apparent? He would also refer with grati-part, he should give his confidence and suptude and satisfaction to the conduct of the Bishop of New Zealand, which had been spoken so highly of since his arrival in the Colony, but particularly during the later disturbances. Lieutenant Philpotts stated in one of his letters, that the conduct of the bishop in bringing off the women and children, and wounded, under a heavy fire, was deserving of the highest admiration; whilst his attendance on the wounded, performing the most menial offices for them, and administering both spiritual and temporal comfort to them, was equally praise-ness, or calculated to excite irritation. He worthy. With respect to the conduct of would not follow the hon. and learned the Government, he admitted they com- Attorney General through all the documitted two faults-one in deputing the in- ments to which he referred in his speech, vestigation into the state of New Zealand as he thought that a Committee would be to a Committee of that House; and the the most proper tribunal before which to next in appointing to the Government of lay those documents. He could not allow that Colony an officer, who, if alive when the misconceptions, and consequently the the appointment reached him, might de- misrepresentations of the hon. and learned cline to accept it. Referring to the in- Attorney General to pass unnoticed, for structions given by Lord Stanley to Cap- that hon. Gentleman had misunderstood tain Grey, the hon. and learned Gentleman the proceedings and conduct of the New (Mr. Buller) regarded them as being di-Zealand Company. The hon. and learned rectly contrary to the promise alleged to have been given by the right hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, that there should be a representative government given to New Zealand, and, quoting the instructions sent out in pursuance, as they ought to have been, of that promise, the

Mr. Aglionby deeply regretted to be called on to address the House on that occasion; but it was a subject of such importance that he could not avoid addressing some observations to the House, and in the course of his remarks he hoped he should not be induced, by any feeling he might entertain as to the treatment of the colonists, to use any expression of harsh

Gentleman was mistaken in the assertion that the Company went out without any land whatever. They had purchased land from private individuals, and from the native chiefs, who were qualified to sell it. There was no illegality in that. What right, therefore, had the hon. and learned

Gentleman to say that the purchases were lieved that they had the opportunity, in a made unfairly? There was not a particle pecuniary point of view, of receiving all of correctness in what the hon. and learned that they could wish; and the body of the Gentleman had said on the point. Nor proprietors unanimously agreed to listen were the purchases hastily made. In re-lo no terms, to take no money, which ference to this matter the public would : might compromise the safety of the setfind all the information bearing upon it in tlers. He ventured to assert that the the letter of Mr. Wakefield. He detailed safety of the colonists had been, was, and the manner in which the purchases had ever should be, the main object of the been made, and goods and money were Company. Satisfy them that the colonists fairly paid to the parties who sold the were safe, and they cared but little what land. What right, then, had the Attorney was done with them. They besought General to say that the purchases were Lord Stanley to settle other matters as he unfairly made ? In no one instance bad pleased, but to settle the land question at the Commissioners of Claims said that such once, and in the way which we conceived had been the case. The Company liad, to be alone the proper way. They took he believed, paid about 7,9001. as an ad- the agreement coupled with an express ditional compensation, in one case, at Nel- condition, that the grant should be made son, and all for the goodwill of the land. immediately. He would only sav, that As to the emigrants, they went out with a nothing had ever been concealed by the full knowledge of all the facts connected Company, and if the House wished for inwith the Colony. The Company did not formation nothing would be concealed. deceive them. Every particle of informa- With respect to what the hon. Baronet the tion which the Company had at its dispo- Member for Oxford (Sir R. Inglis) said as sal was published to the world. The emi- to his (Mr. Aglionby's) saying that the grants knew how and why they went out; missionaries had entirely under their connor had he yet heard any complaint made trol that portion of the island which was by them of the Company's proceedings. now the seat of disturbance, he had put it They complained of ruined hopes, of loss in the shape of a question to the Under of property, and of the want of safety to Secretary, and he could not deny it. It their lives ; but it was not of the Company was urged by the hon. Baronel that this they complained. In all its proceedings, showed the animus which actuated the the Company had ever preferred a pacific Company in regard to the missionaries. course, and in no one instance had it exhi. He (Mr. Aglionby) believed that Mr. bited any feeling but a desire to obtain Baring's Bill in that House had been peace, at any sacrifice but that of loss of thrown out by the influence of the Church honour. They preferred taking an agree. Missionary Society. That Society was ment (which was a compromise) to going managed by Mr. Dandeson Coates. That to a court of law. The Company took the gentleman asserted, on a subsequent day, agreement, and were satisfied with it. that so long as he could oppose it, New Who dared to say that the noble Lord the Zealand should never be colunized by the Member for London (Lord John Russell) Company. His opposition to the Comwas misled by what were called the inis- pany still continued, and it was a strong representations of the Company ? Every and powerful opposition. He had, at an document which they had at command, early period of the Session, called the atwas then, as now, at the command of the tention of the House to a fact, which he Colonial Office. The noble Lord knew would now beg leave to state again. He very well what he was about, and the had received a letter, or rather circular, Company were perfectly satisfied with his and a similar circular had been received by agreement. It was true, that when the many others; and when he stated its purCourt of Claims was established, they did port, he would ask whether the opposition not assent. Colonel Wakefield said, that, manifested in it, did not justify him in in his belief, the agreement of the noble saying, that the difficulties of the ComLord rendered the Court of Claims inappli- pany were greatly to be attributed to the cable to the case. To settle the question, opposition of Mr. Dandeson Coates? The they had placed upwards of 7,0001, in the hon, and learned Gentleman then read the hands of their agent. The peace, the circular, requesting the party to whom it harmony, and the prosperity of the settle- was addressed to present

Member ment was the main consideration with the for Cockermouth, and to desire him to use Company. The Company certainly be- his influence in order that the Members

to

a

a

answer.

might oppose the recommendation of the | ferent districts, where their influence was Select Committee who had reported upon paramount ; and he could easily conceive the state of New Zealand and the affairs the motives of their objection to colonizaof tļie Company. It was signed by John lion by any one but themselves. The third D. White. [Sir R. Inglis: It was not and the worst class were actuated solely by from Mr. Coates ?] No. [Sir R. Inglis : their wishes for their own selfish aggranNor from the Church Missionary Society?] dizement, who had set aside the instructions The hon. Baronet now wished to insinuate of the Society, and who had procured for that he was grossly in error, and was themselves large and extensive grants of grossly misleading the House, when he land. The Church Missionary Society mentioned that document as a proof that were not, as a body, large holders of land, Mr. ('oates and the Church Missionary although they had about 11,000 acres. Society were still in opposition to the | The missionaries to whom he now more claims of the New Zealand Company? He immediately alluded, had obtained nearly would now ask the hon. Baronet who Mr. 200,000 acres of land in New Zealand. White was? He would ask him now- These parties likewise had a direct personal

Sir R. Inglis : Did the hon. and learned interest, with Mr. George Clarke at their Gentleman wish him to interrupt him a head, and Mr. George Clarke, jun.; they second time? If so, he would give him an had a direct personal and pecuniary interest

If not, he would wait till the in the northern part of the island. He hon. and learned Gentlemen had done. would now ask the Government whether,

Mr. Aglionby would ask, for the informa- notwithstanding these missionaries, they tion of the House, who Mr. White really would or would not colonize New Zea. was? He would likewise ask, in reference land ? It was their duty now to carry to Mr. Dandeson Coates, if the circular forward colonization to the advantage of quoted had been sent forth without his all parties and classes_natives and white knowledge or direction? The circular was persons. In addition to what he had thus written on the part of the Church Mission- advanced, he felt himself obliged to rise, ary Society. Did the hon. Baronet mean to trouble the House upon a matter of prito disavow Mr. White's proceeding - did vate and personal honour, which had been he mean to deny that Mr. Coates, either confided to his charge, and which, if he did directly or indirectly, sent the letter? not bring before the House, he would feel Did he mean to deny that the Church Mis- himself guilty of a grievous dereliction of sionary Society did not cause it to be sent? his duty; and the House would pardon hiin If so, let him at once inform the House of it. for trespassing longer on their attention, It was sent with the cognizance, or by the when they called to mind how deep an inauthority of Mr. Coates, or of the Church terest he took in the Colony, and in all Missionary Society. In accordance with the those connected with it. What he was now Church Missionary Society, its mission about to bring before the House, was a aries in the Colony had a direct interest in matter of a more delicate and painful charobstructing colonization by any one but acter than any to which he had as yet althemselves. The missionaries might be luded. He had listened to the representadivided into three classes :-First, there tions of the Under Secretary with some were those who went out from the most surprise and pain. He did not think, howhighminded, the purest, and the most be- ever, that he was personally called upon, nevolent of motives, and who thought that by anything which had fallen from the the introduction of any European society Under Secretary, to make any remark; into the Colony would introduce with it but a letter had been sent to him, in conEuropean arts and luxuries, and with them sequence of these remarks on the part of European vices, and thus obstruct the the Under Secretary; and as the matter christianizing and civilizing the natives of deeply affected the character and the hoNew Zealand; such men he could respect. nour of a gentleman of high character, and There was another class, not quite so high- formerly a Member of that House, he minded, but who had not the base pecu- was quite sure the House would forgive niary interest which others had. They him for calling their attention to the subformed a considerable body of the mission-ject, and reading the letter. It was signed aries, and were honest and intelligent me- by George Frederick Young, one of the chanics, who went out to preach the doc- members of the deputation who waited on trines of the Church Missionary Society. Lord Stanley about a fortnight ago, and They reigned as little kings in their dit was as follows: VOL. LXXXII. {Series}

2 F

Third

"I have just heard, with equal surprise and placed almost in antagonism with Lord Stanley pain, the unqualified denial given by Mr. on a point of veracity. I have the most unHope, on the part of Lord Stanley, of the as- hesitating confidence that his Lordship is utsertion made by the Directors of the New terly incapable of asserting intentionally an Zealand Company, that the fact of his Lord- untruth. Those to whom I am known will, I ship having given instructions to Captain am sure, do me equal justice; and I must, Grey to grant primâ facie titles to the lands therefore, leave this unlucky discrepancy in claimed by the Company, was not communi- our statements to be reconciled in any manner cated by him to the deputation with whom the that Mr. Hope's declarations and this explarecent conferences have been held. As his nation may allow to be compatible with hoLordship is represented by Mr. Hope as de- nour, which, on my part, I commit to your claring on his honour that he did read those friendship, assured that you will not allow it instructions to the deputation, it is, of course, to be in any quarter impeached." impossible for me to contradict such an asser- He regretted that he was obliged to read tion; but I owe it to my colleagues and to such a letter to the House; but he must myself equally unequivocally to declare that, having taken an active and attentive part in remark, that he was sure that when hon. the proceedings, I never heard a syllable, or Gentlemen saw that so doing was necessary saw a letter, referring in any way to a grant to clear the honour and the character of of conditional titles, to which, as a member any Gentleman whose honour and charof the Court of Directors, I have ever been so acter were implicated by anything which decidedly opposed; that, had the principle fell from any hon. Gentleman in that been attempted to be revived in my hearing, House, they would admit that he had done I should have considered it the first of duties right in introducing both the subject and to have rejected it, and protested against it in the letter. He would only now say that the strongest manner. One thing at least is certain. I waited on Mr. Wood, at the Land Mr. Young made the same statement to and Emigration Office, by desire of Lord them when the papers were transmitted to Stanley, an hour previous to the time fixed for them, and he now repeated his full assurthe last interview of the deputation, and there ance that he never heard of the other doreceived from Mr. Wood a paper, which he cument. He had no reason to doubt the stated to me was a copy of the instructions to perfect accuracy, so far as his recollection Captain Grey on the subject of the Company's served him, of the Under Secretary. The land claims. That paper I communicated to despatch of the 26th of June was confined my colleagues, and afterwards returned to Lord Stanley at the interview. It was the in- to two or three points; one, the settlement structions of the 6th of July, and contained of the Company's claims to the land, the no reference whatever to those of the 27th of other points referring to the government June. When the latter was transmitted to the of the Colony, whereas that of the 6th of Company, in supposed conformity with the July was confined solely and wholly to the promise given by Lord Stanley, I instantly claims to land. In the letter, enclosing pronounced them to be totally different; and the despatch of the 27th of June, it was in order to clear up the question, went on stated that the deputation had that day an Thursday last to the Colonial Office, where I saw Mr. Hope, and told him that I had an im- interview with Lord Stanley, and that his pression, amounting to absolute conviction, Lordship placed in the hands of the deputhat they were not the same, and only hesitation the instructions issued to Captain tated positively to affirm it from an unwillingness to admit the possibility of intentional substitution. And, in order to remove all doubt, I asked to see the original document, placed in my hands on the 4th of July, and returned to Lord Stanley. On its being brought, I immediately identified it; and it is not pretended that it contained any reference to the instructions of the 27th of June. Mr. Hope then said, that these latter papers had been sent in a hurry by mistake,' and permitted me to take with me the instructions of July 6, without the slightest intimation that he supposed I was acquainted with the others, which again I declare, upon my honour,

I was not. I write in great haste, but hope my explanation will be intelligible. It is truly mortifying to me, after the especial pains I thought I had taken to avoid any repetition of former misunderstandings, to find myself

Grey on the subject of the Company's claim to land. Having stated this much he would now resume his seat, without offering another remark.

cries for a division were so loud and so Sir R. Inglis rose to explain, but the general, that the hon. Baronet's explanation did not reach us.

Mr. G. W. Hope begged to be allowed to offer a very short explanation as to what had fallen from the hon. and learned Gentleman. As the House would perceive, if they looked at the Papers, there were extracts, and there was also a complete despatch. The complete despatch was placed in the hands of the deputation, and was taken away by the deputation. That was the document which Mr. Young had had

in his hand. When application was made | acter of the Constitution, and moved that for the extracts, it was pointed out to him, it be read a third time that day three in the minutes of the meeting, that his months. Lordship had placed in the hands of the meeting the instructions to Captain Grey. He (Mr. Hope) consequently directed the extracts only to be sent. Mr. Young alleged that they were not what he had possession of, to which he had answered that it certainly was not. There was no inten-duced by the right hon. Baronet; and there tion to deceive Mr. Young or anybody else.

Debate adjourned.

SLAVE TRADE (BRAZILS).] On the Motion for going into Committee on the Slave Trade (Brazils) Bill,

Colonel Sibthorp entirely agreed with his hon. Friend the Member for the University of Oxford, whom he regarded as a true Christian and Protestant. He would always be happy to record his vote with his hon. Friend against any measure intro

was no measure which he did not believe
the right hon. Baronet, as a Minister, ca-
pable of introducing for the spoliation and
ruin of the Protestant Church.
The House divided on the Question,
that the word
stand part of the
Question:-Ayes 44; Noes 11: Majority
List of the AYES.

now