SMALL DEBTS (No. 3) BILL.] The Solicitor General said as this was a Bill of the utmost importance to the mercantile classes, it would be necessary to have it passed through the House with the least possible delay. He had had several communications with hon. Members on both sides of the House who were connected with the mercantile interest, and they had expressed their approval of the measure. He proposed, then, with the leave of the House, that the Bill should be read a second time, and that they should afterwards go pro formá into Committee this evening, for the purpose of making certain alterations and adding some clauses to the Bill which were deemed necessary to render it completely satisfactory. The Bill, with the amendments, could then be printed, and delivered into the hands of Members to-morrow or Monday. Bill read a second time. On the Motion for going into Committee pro formá, Mr. Wakley suggested to the hon, and learned Gentleman the propriety of at once stating those amendments he intended to propose. The Bill, as it then stood, he thought was a satisfactory measure to the public generally, and was decidedly an improvement on that of last year. He should, therefore, like to know at once the character of the changes that were to be made in it. Sir J. Graham thought that the course which his hon. and learned Friend proposed to take was decidedly the most convenient one, and to which no reasonable objection could be well urged. 1 Bill committed pro forma, and ordered young women, should be made an example to be recommitted. The deposition in respect to the latter prisoners, which had been laid before another magistrate, stated that they were two young girls-one only eleven years of age, and the other fourteen. The first was apprehended by a constable on the charge of stealing a halfpenny worth of coals, and the latter for stealing a waistcoat of little value. The deponent, who was sister to one of these unfortunate girls, stated that she went to the constable, on the evening of her committal, who had Eliza Price in custody, when she found her sister in a back kitchen; that she asked him whether she could have a bed, when he replied in the negative, as he had not one there; that she then offered money to procure her sister a bed, which was also refused. On the following morning she again called, when she found her sister with bandcuffs upon her, and chained to the grate. On the next morning she called and found her sister in the same dreadful condition, and the other prisoner, Emma Woodall, also chained in like manner to the grate. Her sister said that she had never been washed since she was taken into custody, and asked deponent for some soap. This statement was corroborated by another sister of the deponent. It appeared that Mr. Briscoe, before whom these two young girls were brought, had desired the constable to take them to his house, where they were confined for four days, and were both chained to the grate in the back kitchen. He (Mr. Duncombe) observed that this appeared to be a most monstrous case of cruelty, and that the constable, if found guilty of having acted so to these of, and the most effectual means taken to put an end to such a system that was alleged to prevail in the neighbourhood of Mr. Briscoe's magisterial authority. PUNISHMENT IN STAFFORDSHIRE.] Mr. T. Duncombe wished to ask the right hon. Baronet whether he was prepared Sir J. Graham said, he should not have to lay on the Table of the House the the least objection to produce the minutes Report of Mr. Robins, relative to the sys- of evidence which had been taken before tem pursued by a magistrate and certain the Commissioner in respect to the cases constables in Staffordshire in respect to referred to, and the report of the Commisthe punishment of Eliza Price; and also sioner himself upon such evidence. He whether, in addition to such report, he would be also happy to lay upon the Table would also produce a copy of the corre- of the House a copy of the letter which he spondence between the Government and had addressed to the Lord Lieutenant of the Lord Lieutenant of Staffordshire upon Staffordshire on the subject, enclosing the the subject? He had recently received a Report of the Commissioner and the micommunication from the same neighbour-nutes of evidence. The hon. Member for hood, where it appeared that the same kind Finsbury would then see that he had of treatment had been pursued against two pointed the attention of the Lord Lieutenwomen under the warrant of a Mr. Briscoe, ant to this practice of chaining prisoners her captain was required to ask permission from the French commander, and he was also commanded to salute the French flag. The captain of the Talbot hereupon objected to comply with these demands; and upon mere night charges, which he stated was most reprehensible, and he had pointed out to the Lord Lieutenant the necessity of directing the magistrates' attention to the subject, with a view of inducing them to use their influence to check this prac-it was said that the French authorities tice, which he was sorry to see had prevailed in that district. The conduct pursued in respect to the recent cases mentioned by the Hon. Member was also most unjustifiable. CHARITABLE BEQUESTS BILL (IRELAND).] The Earl of Arundel wished to know whether it ever was the intention of Her Majesty's Government to introduce. any amendments into the Irish Charitable Bequests Bill? Sir J. Graham said, the subject to which the noble Earl referred was under the consideration of Government. The Roman Catholic Commissioners appointed to preside at the Board under this Bill had represented to the Government the objections which they had to more than one point in that measure. They pointed out, especially, the duty that was imposed on them by the Act, of deciding as to who possessed ecclesiastical authority, according to the rules and canons of their Church. They stated that this point should be left altogether to the decision of an ecclesiastical authority, and not of a civil authority. This objection he had a desire, as far as possible, to remove. Another point was also dwelt upon as most objectionable, in respect to which they stated that the Bill had put them in a worse situation than they had been in before. He could only say it was not the intention of Government to place them in a more disadvantageous position than they had been heretofore. With respect to these objections generally, it was the intention of Her Majesty's Government, during the recess, to give every attention to them, with a view of ascertain ing how these difficulties could be removed. would not allow any communication to be Sir G. Cockburn was understood to say that no report of such a circumstance as had been stated by the hon. and gallant Officer had, he believed, been received at the Admiralty. MILITARY PUNISHMENT AT WINDSOR.] Mr. Wakley said that, pursuant to his notice, he wished to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War a question having reference to a report that had lately appeared in the Morning Chronicle, of a transaction which had occurred last Saturday, in connexion with the 2nd battalion of Coldstream Guards, at Windsor. By that statement, it appeared that a whole company of soldiers were ordered to strip themselves naked, for the purpose of being examined by the surgeon of the regiment; and in consequence of two of the soldiers refusing to obey such an order, a courtmartial was held upon the spot, and an order made that these soldiers should receive one hundred lashes each, which was at once inflicted on them; the whole proceedings, including the court-martial and punishment, only occupying a period of two hours and a half. could give to the question of the hon. Mr. S. Herbert said, the best answer he Member for Finsbury was, to state the facts that had occurred as briefly as possible. It appeared that for some time past, in a battalion of Guards at Windsor, many of FRENCH SQUADRON AT TAHITI.] the soldiers were affected with a certain Captain Pechell said, that a paragraph had disease, which, if suffered to continue, must recently appeared in the public newspapers have been attended with serious results. relative to the French squadron at Tahiti, He had reason to believe that these men, in which it was stated that a letter had whether from a dislike to going into the been lately received from that place, giving hospital, or from some other cause, had enan account of the arrival of the Talbot deavoured to conceal the fact of their suffrigate there, which was towed by the Sala-fering under this disease. In consequence mander steamer. Before the Talbot could of this being made known to the military get leave to stop there, it appeared that authorities there, a rigid medical examinaVOL. LXXXII. {} Third fore which the facts, as he had stated, were fully proved, and the punishment of one hundred lashes ordered to be inflicted upon them; which punishment was immediately carried into effect. With respect to the paragraph alluded to by the hon. Member, the statement as to the dissatisfaction which existed amongst those who were witnesses to the proceedings, was quite unfounded. He did not wish a false impression to be made in respect to the facts of this case. The punishment that was inflicted on those men was not for refusing to comply with the examination of the surgeon, but for insulting their commanding officer by persisting to disobey his orders. tion was ordered ; the result of which was, | The court-martial was accordingly held, bethat sixteen men were found to be infected, who otherwise would have passed the ordinary examination, and would have remained without the application of any proper treatment to arrest the progress of the disease. In consequence of the great indisposition of the men to make known their peculiar situation, and thereby to avoid the necessity of going into the hospital, great dissatisfaction had been excited among them at the order for this examination, and two of them absolutely refused to submit to such examination. On the surgeon reporting the conduct of these men, they were called before the commanding officer, who took some pains to warn them of the serious offence they had been guilty of in refusing to obey the orders of the surgeon, who was a commissioned officer. He need not state how essential it was to the discipline of the army, that the orders of the commanding officers should be strictly obeyed; and in this case, it was most essential to the health Mr. W. Williams observed, that the right hon. Gentleman had not answered the most important charge that had been made, namely, whether those men had been ordered to stip themselves naked, in the presence of the whole regiment? of the men that the authority of the medi-known custom in the army for the men to Mr. S. Herbert said, that it was a wellcal officer should not be held in contempt. The officer in command, therefore, informed these men that they were committing a most serious offence; but finding that they persisted in their disobedience, he ordered them to be confined for forty-eight hours in the black hole. The men made no remonstrance at the time to this order, and were marched by the serjeant into the guard room. On being ordered into the black hole by the serjeant, they refused to go; and on the commanding officer being again informed of their disobedience, he sent for them, and again explained to them the serious offence which they had, a second time, been guilty of. Having done so, the serjeant again gave the men orders to march; but they were still obstinate in their refusal. The commanding officer himself then gave the command, which he repeated two or three times; but the men continued to stand fast. He then ordered them back to the guard room, where he again and again remonstrated with them on the impropriety of their conduct. They, however, persisted in their refusal to obey; and the commanding officer being fully aware of the danger of this insubordination spreading, he immediately ordered a regimental court-martial, as he thought the immediate punishment for an offence of this description was much more important than if he had called a district court-martial, when the punishment would be necessarily delayed, and of a more severe character. be obliged to strip occasionally for the examination by the surgeon. Also, when a regiment was ordered down to bathe together, and for the medical inspection, which generally took place in the rooms of the men in the morning. The exception in this case, as to the mode in which the men were ordered to undergo this examination, was in consequence of this disease, which was prevalent among them. Mr. Wakley would undertake to say, that by a more private examination, a more searching inquiry could be made into the case of each particular man, than by adopting such a course as had been stated. Nothing could be more indelicate or indecent, or more repulsive to a proper and correct feeling that should be encouraged among men, than for soldiers to be placed under the necessity of undergoing such an examination naked, in the presence of a large company of their comrades. He knew that it was highly danpeal on these occasions; but when he fullygerous to make this House a court of apknew that in the House of Correction, in this metropolis, there were at present seventy soldiers confined, it was quite clear that there was something wrong in the government of the army. Mr. W. Williams thought, that every means should be taken to put a stop to a practice so indecent as had been described | 21st July, there were not 100 fit for ordinary duty, and of her ship's company, more than half were on the sick list. Fore and aft, her in the present instance. Admiral Dundas begged to differ in the opinion expressed by the right hon. Gen-lower deck, every berth, was occupied by a tleman the Secretary at War, when he room, which was used as a hospital, the men sick man in his hammock, while in the gun stated that it was customary for whole were lying side by side as close as they could regiments to strip together on the occa- be laid, in the last stage of debility. I could sions to which he had alluded. From his multiply the cases of the ships that came unexperience he could say, that it had never der my own observation while charged with been customary to do so in the army, and the duties of senior officer at Chin-keang-foo; as to the navy, he had never heard of such but I have said enough to give you some idea of the effects of the climate. I trust, I may an instance occurring. never again witness such sickness and such suffering; at the same time, I cannot sufficiently express my admiration of the patience with which it was borne. Of the officers, one lieutenant, one midshipman, and myself alone escaped the ague. If I can afford you any further information that may be useful to you, I shall be glad to furnish it. I sincerely hope you may succeed in obtaining for the seamen some more adequate remuneration for their services than the miserable pittance of 4l. 2s., which is all that fell to the share of those who served in the Endymion." Mr. S. Herbert said, that there appeared to be some misapprehension as to the statement he had inade. The regiment in question had stood together in a row, and each man, as he was called by the surgeon, stood out from the row, and underwent the examination. CHINESE PRIZE MONEY.] On the Motion for going into Committee of Supply, Captain Berkeley rose to bring forward The pretence set up by the Chancellor of the Motion of which he had given notice.the Exchequer, that no war had been deHe proposed this Motion, he said, solely from a sense of justice, from a strong convietion of what was due on the part of the nation to a most gallant body of men, who, after the most noble exertions after undergoing the most fearful sufferings, -had been denied their rightful share in the booty which their bravery had acquired. As a proof of it he would read the following extract of a letter from Captain Grey :- clared previous to the hostilities so gallantly conducted by these men, was shabby in the last degree, and utterly inconsis tent with justice and reason. In the case of the Burmese war, grants were made to the gallant Britons who had taken part in it, to the full extent of the military stores and other booty they had achieved. But the men who, by their bravery in China, had realized a booty of two millions and a half sterling, besides the ransom money, "The power of the sun during the whole were denied the reward of their exertions. period was very great, and the consequences Government would not dare to refuse to of the unavoidable exposure of the men to it, the army in India the fruits of its valour; and to the perhaps still more prejudicial night why, then, should the gallant fellows who air, soon showed itself in the increasing sick had so nobly maintained the honour of lists of every ship. By the beginning of Sep-England in China, be deprived of their tember, ours had reached 120, and before we returned to Chusan, we buried 18 men, in- rights? The officers and men in Sir W. Parker's ship, for instance, had they been justly treated, would have received, on the average, nearly 2007. each; but as it was, they would have got one-third more by working in peace and comfort in Plymouth or Chatham Dockyard for the time, than they realized by all their arduous exertions, their unsurpassed bravery, their terrible sufferings in China. It was sufficient to cause disgust in the mind of the British seaman to offer him such a paltry sum as 41. as a return for the eminent services which he had rendered in China. Under the system which they adopted of remunerating those men, the boy who blacked an officer's shoes, or waited behind him at table, was as largely rewarded as the able seaman. To his mind, that was using the British seaman most unjustly; and he had no doubt that such a course of conduct would visit itself at a future day upon the authors of it. It was true that the Chancellor of the Exchequer Said there had been no war in China; but the same argument had been used with respect to the battle of Navarino, and what took place in that case? The claims of the sailors were on that occasion resisted on the ground that there had been no declaration of war; and the consequence of resisting them on those grounds was, that on board one line of battle ship, on two occasions, the sailors said that in future they would make a bargain whether there was war or no war before they went into action. They had the authority of the greatest man that ever the Navy produced, for treating with liberality the sailors who fought the battles of their country. Lord Nelson said— "An Adiniral may be amply rewarded by his feelings and the approbation of his superiors, but what reward have the inferior officers and men, but the value of the prizes? If an Admiral takes that from them on any consideration, he cannot expect to be well supported. However, I trust, as in all other instances, if to serve the State, any persons or bodies of men suffer losses, it is amply made up to them; and in this I rest confident my brave associates will not be disappointed." He trusted that the House would on this occasion act in the same liberal spirit which was exhibited when Admiral Codrington brought forward a Motion for the purpose of obtaining remuneration for the men who fought at Navarino. On that occasion Mr. O'Connell said that his principle was not to pay those who did not deserve it, but to pay liberally those who deserved it. The only dissentient from the Motion was the present hon. Member for Montrose; but he did not divide the House on his opposition, and the Motion was carried. Now he would turn to Syria, and ask the House what course had been adopted with respect to the forces employed by this country on the coast of Syria? The petty officers employed in that service received each 121., or 14., or 167.; whilst the petty officers who had served in China for a much longer period received but 41. He had the honour of serving in that expedition, and he did not. mean to put the services which were performed there in serious competition with those which had been performed in China; and he would add, that the men who were employed in Syria were not occupied in that service more than a few months, whilst those who served in China had been employed during periods of three years, two years, or one year. Notwithstanding this difference in the length of service, and the fact that the Chinese force had captured merchandise and other property equal in value to the amount of three millions sterling, which was bona fide their property, yet they received less per head than the men composing the expeditions to Syria and Algiers. Lord Exmouth received 100,000l. for seizing a fleet in the Bay of Naples, although he did not keep it in his possession for five minutes; and he would ask the House of Commons, would they, when they considered that, say that the men who were employed in those most valuable and important ser vices in China, ought to receive so small a sum as 41. each? For the service which had been rendered in other parts of the globe, liberal remuneration had been given; and he did not see why the seamen in China should be neglected. Sir H. Gough obtained a pension for life for his services; Sir W. Parker was created a baronet, and received a most important command; and Sir Henry Pottinger was created a baronet, and obtained a pension for his services. Those rewards were not too much for the valuable services which had been rendered; but he would ask, would any man in that House say that 47. each was sufficient to compensate the sailors and soldiers who had been employed in China? It had been urged as a reason for giving so small a sum, that the victory in China was an easy victory; and he should remark that such an objection was a premium to officers not to put out their force or apply their science and skill in time, and with sufficient effect at once, but rather to let some of their men be killed before they injured the enemy. He trusted the House would not, on this occasion, forget the services which had been rendered by our seamen in China; that they had made the Chinese succumb to our terms, and had taught them a lesson which they would never forget. They |