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Stewart, P. M.
Wellesley, Lord C. Sanderson, R. Scrope, P.
Christie, W. D. Thesiger, Sır F.
Vesey, hon. T. Wall, C. B.
Grey, Sir G.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, Balfour, J. M.
Ellice, E. jun.
Wednesday, July 16, 1845.
MINUTES.] Bills. Public.- Reported. -Turnpike Acts Bentinck, Lord G. Eiwall, R.
Continuance ; Loan Societies ; Highway Rates; Militia Blakemore, R. Phillpotts, J.
Ballots Suspension; Unlawful Oaths (Ireland); Land Burroughes, H, N. Ord, 'W.
Revenue Act Amendment.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. Brownrigg, J.S. Elphinstone, H.
By Mr. T. Duncombe, from
Henry Walker, of 29 St. John Street, Clerkenwell,
against Lunatics Bill.
The House assembled at twelve o'clock. Chapman, A.
Humphery, J. Copeland, ald. Matheson, J.
Lunatics.] On the Motion that the Campbell, Sir H. Bannerman, A. Speaker leave the Chair to go into ComCochrane, A. B. O'Brien, c.
mittee on the Lunatics Bill, Coote, Sir C.
Redington, T. N. Courtenay, Lord
Mr. T. Duncombe protested against Seymour, Lord Cole, hon. H. Hállyburton, Ld. F.g. proceeding with the consideration of the Darby, G. Curteis, H.
Bill in the absence of the right hon. Douro, Marq. Byng, G.
Baronet the Secretary for the Home DeDenison, E. B. Fox, Col.
partment. The hon. Member was proceedDrummond, 11. Traill, G.
ing, when the right hon. Baronet the SeDodd, G. Clive, E. B.
cretary for the Home Department took his Emlyn, Lord Muniz, G. F.
seat; and the hon. Member said he would Estcourt, T. G. Ward, H.J. Grimsditch, T. Philips, M.
not further oppose the Motion. Grimston, Lord Duncombe, T.
House in Committee.
On Clause 5, which provides for the reHarris, Capt.
Troubridge, Sir T. tiring pensions of the Commissioners, Heathcote, Sir W. Ramsboltoin, J.
Mr. Warburton moved to omit all the Hamilton, . Buller, C.
words after “ that,” for the purpose of inHepburn, Sir T. Gisborne, T.
serting the following words :Hould.worth, T. Collett, J. Henniker, Lord Morrison, Gen.
Any superannuation allowance to be Holmes, hn. W. A. Rice, E. R.
granted to any paid Commissioner appointHodgson, R. While, S.
ed, or to be appointed, under this Act, shall Hope, Sir J.
Napier, Sir C. be granted only as a Compensation for ser. Horuby, J.
Ferguson, Col. vices performed under this Aci, and shall be Irving, J.
Pendarves, E. W. subjeci to the provisions of an Act passed in Knight, F. W. Busseild, W.
the fourth and fifth years of His late Majesty Knight, H. G. Cayley, E. S.
William the Fourth, in respect of such officers Knightley, Sir C. Archbold, R.
and clerks as might enter the public service Lyall, G. Philips, G. R.
after the 4th day of August, 1829.” Lefroy, A. Blake, M.
Mr. S. Crawford objected to any superLindsay, H. H. Bell, J.
annuation allowance. He concurred with Maxwell, hon. J. Loch, J. Maunsell, T. P. Cavendish, hon. G.
the hon. Member for Finsbury in recomMarton, G.
mending the postponement of the Bill. Milnes, R. M. Listowel, Lord
Amendment agreed to. Mackinnon, W. H. Crawford, W. S.
On the Motion that the clause, as Morgan, c. Dundas, W.
amended, stand part of the Bill,
Public Works (Ireland).
Mr. T. Duncombe objected altogether HOUSE OF LORDS, to granting retiring pensions to the Com
Thursday, July 17, 1845. missioners, and should take the sense of the House on the point. Why should MINUTES.) Bills. Public.—?". Turnpike Acts Continu
ance; Militia Ballots Suspension; Loan Societies; Highthese Commissioners be placed in a better
way Rates; Borough and Watch Rates ; Art Unions; situalion than the Poor Law Commission- Unlawful Oaths (Ireland); Commons' Inclosure ; Appre
hension of Offenders. ers and the Inspectors of prisons ? Their
24. Recognizances for Costs in Bills. duties were performed principally for the
za. and passed :-Administration of Justice (Court of benefit of the rich, who ought to provide Chancery) Acts Amendment; Statute Labour (Scotland); for their maintenance. He recommended
Law of Defamation and Libel Act Amendment ; Drain
age by Tenants for Life; Dog Stealing; Constables, that the duration of the Commission should be limited for the present to three Private.-1* Earl of Powis's (or Robinson's) Eslate; years. He again urged on the Govern- Shrewsbury and Holyhead Road.
24. Direct London and Portsmouth Railway: Tacumshin ment the policy of post poning the Bill till
Lake Embankment; Erewash Valley Railway; Irish next Session, when they would be enabled Great Western Railway (Dublin to Galway). to bring in a satisfactory measure, after
Reported.-Norwich and Brandon Railway (Diss and Dere
ham Branches); Saint Helen's Improvement; Falmouth due deliberation, and a careful considera
Harbour; Follett's Estate; Winchester College Estate ; tion of suggested amendments. As, how- Bowes' Estate; Duke of Bridgewater's Trustees' Estate; ever, Government seemed resolved to force Aberdare Railway; Brighton and Chichester Railway
(Portsmouth Extension); Guildford, Chichester and the Bill through Parliament, in despite of
Portsmouth Railway; Glasgow, Barrhead, and Neilston opposition, and with an attendance of Direct Railway. Members absurdly inadequate to the con
39. and passed :-Birmingham Blue Coat School Charity
Estate ; Sampson's Estate (Ward's); Wear Valley Railsideration of such a question, he should feel
way: Preston and Wyre Railway; Harwell and Streatley it his duty to offer every clause his most Road; Saint Matthew's (Bethnal Green) Rectory. strenuous opposition.
PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Longford, for the Better
Observance of the Sabbath. By the Marquess of LonSir J. Graham referred to the conduct
donderry, from Landowners of the Baronies of Ards, and of those having charge of the Bill, with Castlereagh, and numerous other places, against the Tereference to the Amendment proposed by
nants' Compensation (Ireland) Bill.–From Commissioners
of Supply of Nairnshire, for Insertion of Clause in Railthe hon. Member for Kepdal, in proof of way Bills, to compel Proprietors of Railways to Compen. the readiness with which they were willing sate Creditors of Turnpike Trusts. to acquiesce in any reasonable suggestion. It would be better to discuss the objections
Irish Great WESTERN Railway.] The to the various clauses in their ‘regular Earl of Besborough brought up the Report order. He should, however, deceive the of the Select Committee on the Irish Great hon. Member, if he held out any hope Western (Dublin and Galway) Bill, to that he could consent to limit the duration which the petition had been referred. The of the Commission.
Report (which the noble Earl read in a low Mr. Wakley moved “That no person tone at the Table) was understood to state, should be hereafter appointed to the Com- that it had not been the practice of this mission who was above the age of forty- Company to require references from appli
cants for shares, and that allotments had Amendment negatived,
been made to persons under feigned and The Committee divided on the Motion, fictitious names, and to paupers and others that the clause stand part of the Bill :- who had no means of paying the requisite Aves 43; Noes 3: Majority 40.
deposits; that the system adopted was one Clauses up to Clause 9 inclusive were
which tended to defeat the object of Paragreed to, and schedules were agreed to. liament in its rules on this subject, and The House r sumed. Report to be re
that the reduction made last Session in the ceived.
required amount of deposit had had the effect of facilitating the commission of
fraud. The noble Earl concluded by movValuation (IRELAND) Bill.] Sir T. ing that the 'Report should be printed,
. Fremantle moved " That the House s d together with the evidence in the case, and resolve itself into Committee on this hnol” that it should be referred to the Committee
Sir R. Ferguson objected to proceeding on the Bill. with the Bill at that hour.
Lord Brougham expressed his belief that An hon. Member moved that the House it would be better not to enter then into be counied, and twenty-three Members any discussion of that Report, but to wait only being present, the House adjourned until it was printed with the evidence, acat half past four.
cording to the Motion of his noble Friend.
After a few words from the Marquess
nior Students of the School of Design, Somerset House,
for Inquiry (School of Design).-By Mr. Masterinan, of Clanricarde and the Earl of Wicklon,
from Sugar Refiners of London, against Smoke ProhibiMotivo agreed to.
tion Bill.-By Mr. Villiers, from Captain Charles Stewart, lute of Her Majesty's 24th Regiment of Infantry, for In
quiry into his Case. APPREHENSION OF OFFENDERS.] The Earl of Aberdeen laid on the Table a Bill
The House met at twelve o'clock. for facilitating the Execution of the Treaties with France and the United States of
INCLOSURE OF Commons.] The Earl America, for the Apprehension of certain of Lincoln moved the Order of the Day Offenders. We had received from France for the Third Reading of the Inclosure of and America all the offenders for whom we Co:n mons Bill. had applied ; but in consequence of tech
Colonel Sibthorp had from the first opnical difficulties, it had been found impos- posed this Bill, and would still oppose it, sible to surrender to France any one of- because he thought proper time had not fender, and to America only one or two. been given for its due consideration. There The Bill provided only that the warrant of might be some good clauses in it; but it the Secretary of State should in all cases be
was of so important a nature that he should directed to some one of the police magistrates object to the Bill altogether, unless it were of the Metropolis, instead of the magistrates for some time postponed. generally throughout the country, so that
Mr. Eliot Yorke hoped that the House uniformity of decision should be secured.
would at once proceed with the considerBill read 2a.
tion of the Bill, as it was calculated to be House adjourned.
of great benefit to all classes of the commu
nity. HOUSE OF COMMONS,
Mr. Sharman Cranford felt it to be his
duty again to state his objections to many Thursday, July 17, 1845.
parts of the Bill, as they had not been reMINUTES. ] NEw MEMBER SWORN. For Cambridge Bo- moved in its former stages. The Bill was
rough, Fitz Roy Kelly, Esq. BILLS. Public.—1• Documentary Evidence; Militia Pay; and would not be advantageous to the
calculated to benefit the landlords alone, Railways (Selling and Leasing); Unions (Ireland). 20. Highways : Death by accidents Compensation ; Deo- working classes, who ought to be considdands Abolition (No. 2); Jewish Disabilities Removal; ered. In proof of what he stated, he would Jurors' Books (Ireland); Naval Medical Supplemental Fund Society; Taxing Master, Court of Chancery (Ire- quote the evidence of Mr. H. Martin, of land).
Hadlow, in Kent, who had stated that the Reported.—Ecclesiastical Patronage (Ireland); Drainage rent of common land, which was formerly
(Ireland); Spirits (Ireland). 30. and passed : - Highway Rates; Militia Ballots Suspen- 16s. per acre, had now risen to 21. per acre. sion : Loan Societies; Turnpike Acts Continuance ; Un. Under these circumstances, he would not lawful Oaths (Ireland); Commons' Inclosure ; Lunatic
now further trouble the House; but when Asylums and Pauper Lunatics; Bills of Exchange; Geo. logical Survey: Unclaimed Stock and Dividends: Cri- the question should be put that the minal Jurisdiction of Assistant Barristers (Ireland) ; Bail do pass into a law, he would divide the in Error; Lunatic Asylums (Ireland).
House. Private. -1°. Birmingham Blue Coat School Estate ;
Sampson's Estate; Sir Robert Keith Dick's Estate. Mr. Becket Denison regretted deeply Reported. -- Grimsby Docks (re-committed); Duddeston that the hon. Member for Rochdale, whose and Nechells Improvement (No. 2) (re-committed): Lon character for benevolence stood very high don and Croydon Railway Enlargement (re-committed); London and Croydon Railway (Maidstone, Ashford, and in that House as well as out of it, should Tonbridge); South Eastern Railway (Maidstone to Ro- be found to oppose the Bill, especially as chester) : South Eastern Railway (Ashford to Hastings); his influence and importance among the Rye and Tenterden Railway ; Rothwell Prison; Glasgow, Paisley, Kilmarnɔck, and Ayr Railway (Barrhead Branch). labouring poor were very great. 3o. and passed:-Yoker Road (No. 2); Gravesend and Ro- sure that if that hon. Gentleman should
chester Railway. PETITIONE PRESENTED. By Sir R. H. Inglis, from George succeed in rejecting the Bil, he would
Barnes, B.D. Archdeacon of Barnstaple, against Ecclesi- sooner or later regret that success; for he astical Courts Bill.-By Mr. Baring, and Sir R. Peel, would find that he had been doing a great from British-born Jews of Portsmouth, and London, in favour of Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill.--By Sir R. injury to the labouring poor residing on H. Inglis, from Inhabitants of Boningale, against Union the borders of the commons which, by this of St Asaph and Bangor.—By Mr. Duncan, from Boyd, Bill, would be enclosed. He would give New South Wales, for Repeal of certain Acts relating to his most cordial consent to the Bill. that Colony.--By Mr. Hawes, from Factory Workers, and others, of Cowcliffe, in favour of the Ten Hours System The Earl of Lincoln said, that sufficient in Factories.--By Mr. Masterman, from the City of Lon-time had been given for discussion on this dun, for Inquiry into the Treatment of Lunatics..-By Bill, since it had been before the public General Morison, from Mr. MacMillan, in favour of Physic and surgery Bill—By Mr. W. Williams, from Se nearly three years. The measure, he was
sure, would be found to be of the greatest Sir R. Ferguson objected to the clause, advantage to the labouring poor, as well as and for the same reasons. to the landlords and landowners.
Sir Thomas Fremantle stated that the Order of the Day read. Bill read a object of the clause had been misunder. third time.
stood. It was not intended to give the On the Question that the Bill do pass,
Commissioners the power of trying quesMr. Sharman Crawford contended again tions of properly; but it was intended to that the mode of distribution of land, as prevent parties from erecting weirs, after proposed by this Bill, was most arbitrary its being ascertained by law that they hail and unjust; and as bis objections bad failed no authority to do so. to be considered, he should feel it his duty Sir W. Somerville was as anxious as any to divide the House on the Question. one to prevent the erection of illegal weirs;
The House divided :-Ayes 48 ; Noes 0 : but it would be extremely hard that persons Majority 48.
who had a right to erect weirs should have Bill passed.
that right decided by the Commissioners, or The two Tellers for the Noes were, Mr. have an expensive appeal to reverse his Sharman Crawford and Colonel Sibthorp.
Captain Jones was of opinion that the Drainage of Lands. ] The Earl of
clause, as at present worded, would cerLincoln moved that Mr. Speaker do leave tainly give that power to the Commis
sioners. the Chair, for the House to go into Com
Mr. George Hamilton said, after the exmittee on the Drainage of Lands Bill. Colonel Sibthorp said, though his objec-only question was, whether the clause car
planation of the right hon. Baronet, the tions to the Bill that had just passed were ried out the intention. The right hon. very great, his objections to the present were to be, the protection and screening of those honâ fide claim, but only to prevent a tres. even stronger; for its object seemed to him Baronet stated, it was not intended to give
the Commissioners the power of trying a who had benefited themselves at the expense of others, and because it gave such pass.. The language of the clause appeared great power to the Commissioners to inter- explained by a provision at the end, simi
to him ambiguous; perhaps it might be fere with the private property of gentle-lar to that in the Malicious Trespass Act,
The Earl of Lincoln said, that none of excluding jurisdiction where there was a the Commissioners, or Assistant Commis.
boná fide claim of right or title. sioners, would venture to proceed anywhere to show that this rule held good at Com
The Attorney General quoted some cases to undertake surveys or operations provided by this law, without being first applied to
mon Law in all summary jurisdictions.
Sir Robert Ferguson thought that some by the owner of the land.
explanation was necessary. Mr. Sharman Crawford hoped that the hon. and gallant Colonel would not proceed duction of such a provision. It was desir
Mr. George Hamilton urged the introwith his opposition to this Bill, for he thought it was a reasonable Bill, and would able that the intention of the Legislature
should be clearly expressed. be productive of great good.
Sir Thomas Fremantle would accede to House went into Committee. The Bill passed through Committee, and House re
the suggestion of his hon. Friend. sumed. Report to be received.
Bill went through Committee.
The House resumed. Bill to be re
ported. FISHERIES (IRELAND).] House in Committee on the Fisheries (Ireland) Bill. AMALGAMATION OF RAILWAYS.] Mr.
On Clause 3, “ Power of Commissioners Milner Gibson begged to call the attention to hear complaints and remove illegal of the right hon. the Vice President of the weirs,”
Board of Trade to a Clause of an unpreCaptain Jones thought this clause ex- cedented nature which had been introtremely objectionable. It gave the Com. duced into the Manchester and Liverpool missioners the power of trying questions of Railroad Bill, which gave to the proprieproperty probably to a large amount. It tors the power of amalgamating with other was true there was an appeal ; but was it companies without any further application reasonable that parties should be drawn to to Parliament. A similar clause had found such an appeal?
its way into certain other Bills. He wished
to ask whether Her Majesty's Government port, would be taken into consideration were prepared to introduce a Bill for the during the recess, and brought into Parlia. purpose of repealing that and similar ment at an early period next Session. clauses.
Mr. S. Crawford said, that in 1843, he Sir G. Clerk said, the subjeet was one introduced a Bill having reference to the of great importance, and the clause was to- subject, and it was his intention to move tally without precedent. It was calculated for leave, before the termination of the to establish a monopoly which might be very present Session, to re-introduce it, in inconvenient to the public. It would be order that it might be under the considrecollected that the clause passed through eration of the Government and the public the House without resistance; and, as it during the recess. He trusted that, under was not touched by any of the Lords' | these circumstances, no opposition would Amendments, he could not get rid of it be offered to the introduction of the without throwing the Bill out altogether. Bill. The Report of the Board of Trade had re. Sir R. Peel said, that he should be very commended the House to take care that unwilling to throw any opposition in the no Railway Bill should give any such way of the introduction of the Bill. power of transfer. The ouly way to meet the case would be to bring in a Bill to de- HEALTH of Towns.] In answer to a clare, that notwithstandin, the indefinite question from Mr. Bouverie, powers granted in several Railway Bills The Earl of Lincoln said, that it was to lease or transfer their railways, it should his intention to bring in and print a Bill not be lawful to do so unless the Bill un- relating to the Health of Towns, in order der which the parties acted contained a that it might be circulated during the reclause specifying the parties authorized to cess. make such transfer, and the companies to whom it was to be made. In future, the
Jewisu DISABILITIES.] Sir R. Peel, Committee should have the proposition be- in rising 10 move the Second Reading of fore them, stating the lines that were in the Jewish Disabilities Removal Bill, said tended to be amalgamated. If it met with Mr. Speaker, I am now about to call the general approval of the House, he was ihe attention of the House 10 a Bill prepared to bring in a Bill of that nature, which has been sent down to this House
Mr. Brotherton thought that it would froin the other branch of the Legislature, have been a great hardship and injustice and which has for its object the removal to throw out the Bill on account of the in- of all obstacles to the admission of memtroduction of the objectionable clause ; but bers of the Jewish persuasion to municipal he was glad to hear that the right hon. offices. The Bill has received the almost Gentleman proposed to bring in a Bill to unanimous support of the other branch of prevent the injurious consequences which the Legislature; and I do trust that I shall might result from that clause; and he be enabled to give such an explanation suspended to allow of the speedy passing of of the objects of the Bill, and the reasons such a Bill.
upon which it is founded, as will induce Subject at an end.
the House to receive with equal favour the
measure which has been sent for our conCOMPENSATION TO Tenants.] Mr. currence by the other House of Parliament. Sharman Crawford inquired, whether it The object of the Bill is to remove every were the intention of the Government to impediment whatever, of every kind, to the proceed further with the Tenants' Com- admission of Jews 10 municipal officespensation Bill?
10 any office of magistrate, of trust, and Sir R. Peel said, that the Bill had been of emolument, connected with municipal commiited to a Select Committee in the corporations. I will first stale what is ihe House of Lords; but as there was no pro- great impediment which at present exists bability, owing to the delay which had to the admission of Jews to these corpooccurred, of that Bill coming down to the rate offices. It exists in consequence of House of Commons at such a period as the enactment which was passed through would admit of its proper consideration Parliament in 1828, for the purpose of reduring the present Session, the Govern. pealing the Acis called the Test and Core ment did not propose to proceed with it. poration Acts, and of substituting in their But another Bill, growing out of the Re- room a declaration in lieu of a Sacramental