torney ought to examine the case, and Costs IN LOCAL AND PERSONAL see whether there was good reason to BILLS.] Lord Brougham, with reference bring the action. The tobacconist might to the discussion on the Standing Orders, not be aware that he was likely to incur said, as some difference of opinion had their Lordships' displeasure, and he (Lord arisen whether they should proceed by Campbell) had some compassion for him; Bill or Resolution, he had, in order 10 but was not the attorney perfectly aware obviate delay, prepared a Bill, which he that he was setting their Lordships at de- now presented io their Lordships, to enfiance? When that attorney said he had able the Houses of Parliament 10 order no instructions to withdraw the action, recognizances for costs in local and perwas not that tantamount to saying he sonal matters. would not do so?

Bill read la. Lord Brougham said, he had a com

Their Lordships then adjourned. munication to make to their Lordships, The following Protest on Privilege of Parthat the plaintiff had instructed the at.

liament, was entered on the Journals. torney to discontinue the action. He really thought, under these circumstances,

DISSENTIENTthat their Lordships should proceed no

1. Because this House is now, for the first further.

time, interfering to stop by force an action The Earl of Wicklow said, the plaintiff fellow subject in slanderous words, alleged to

brought against a party for a wrong done to a had declared that he did not know at the have been falsely spoken, and is thus intertime of instituting this suit that it was a posing its power, under the name of privilege, breach of privilege.

between the subject and its strict legal right, The Marquess of Clanricarde reminded the course which the law has prescribed.

sought to be made good in a court of law by their Lordships that the question was not

2. Because, whatever right the House may as to the plaintiff, but the attorney. he supposed to derive from precedent, that is,

The Lord Chancellor observed, that the from former instances in which it has exercised plaintiff's declaration stated that the words former times both Houses of Parliament were

similar

powers, there can be no doubt that in were spoken before a certain Committee, but omitted to say “ of the Lords,” whence serting their privileges, acts which, in the pre

wont to do many acts, under the name of asit was clear that he felt, if he had inserted sent day, and for a long time past, both Houses those words, he would have committed a of Parliament have wholly abstained from breach of privilege, and been brought into doing, and which would now be considered by peril. He thought, therefore, that the at all mankind to be gross and wanton violations

of all justice. torney, who had no doubt made him aware of this, was the more guilty of the two.

3. Because, though the right, however

founded, or however proved, to do such acts Lord Brougham doubted if the attorney as these, or even such acts as the present of a would know so clearly what a breach of far less objectionable kind, were admitted, yet privilege was. There was a great privilege it is always a question of expediency and dislawyer bebind bim--the late Attorney

cretion whether or not this power, even if it General—who said nobody knew what the be possessed by right shall in any given case privileges of the House were-even the of Parliament to be most cautious and absti.

be exercised; and it ever behoves both Houses Judges were completely ignorant of it; nent in the use of powers like these, which and nobody knew what they were but the are assumed by them over parties charged House itself; by which bis noble and with offending against themselves, and are learned Friend meant himself and one or used by them in their own case without the two others.

intervention of any impartial and judicial au

thority. On Question, resolved in the Affir

4. Because it is, in a peculiar manner, the malive.

duty of both Houses to abstain from such acts The Lord Chancellor then moved when they reflect that there is no code of pri« That the said Peter Taite Harbin having know against what law they oftend ; that the

vilege promulgated whereby the people may been guilty of a Breach of the Privileges of this liouse, be committed for his said Offence for the first time, after the alleged breach of it

law is in each case declared, possibly made to the Custody of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, until the further Order of this has been committed, and made in the heat of

the strife occasioned by the alleged offence ; House."

that the Members of the two Houses always On Question, ayreed to, and ordered differ among themselves both as to the law and accordingly.

its application ; and that they who promulgate it are at once the lawgivers, parties, prose-, brought against any person for slanderous cutors, jurors, judges, and executioners; while words falsely spoken by him in giving his eviin this instance alone no power of extending dence before these Courts; and though no damercy to the offender exists in the State. mages could be recovered if the words were

5. Because it behoves this House in a more spoken in answer to a question put in the peculiar manner to avoid placing itself in so cause, yet it is quite certain that ihe action strange and anomalous a position, seeing that must take its course, and that nothing could as it is the Supreme Court of Justice in the be done by the Court to stop it; so that the last resort in all cases criminal and civil, so it witness must be exposed to exactly the same ought to be most anxious ever to set the ex- vexation and expense which are alleged to ample of strictly just, regular, legal procedure, form the only ground for interfering to stop and should most carefully shun all violations the action in the present case. of law and justice, and should especially be 10. Because the order to prevent a defenslow to interfere with pending actions, which dant from pleading, or the commitment of the may in their result come before itself as a high plaintiff for a constructive contempt, never court of appeal.

can really stop the action, which may proceed 6. Because the cases in which is expe- through all its stages whatever be done to the dient and justifiable, from absolute necessity, parties ; unless indeed the greater and unheard to interfere with the rights of individuals and of violence were committed of arresting the the ordinary course of the law, are of a de Judges and their officers, and destroying the scription wholly different from the present, record, and tearing the proceedings from the being actual obstructions offered to the pro- file. ceedings of the Houses, and which must be 11. Because all the arguments drawn from removed without any delay, else the arm of alleged analogies in a Court of Equity, are Parliament would be paralysed; and because wholly wide of the question, inasmuch as the no objection could ever be raised to such an granting an injunction to stay actions at law, exercise of power, and of rightful power, or to prevent receivers and other officers, or either by the two Houses or by any other quasi officers, of the Court being sued for tribunal. But constructive contempts like the acts done under its authority, are not granted present are of a wholly different description, discretionally, but are matter of strict right; and no harm whatever can arise from allow- and inasmuch as such injunctions only prevent ing them to be dealt with by the course of the the party against whom they issue from oba law as administered in the regular courts of taining his remedy in one form, reserving it justice, those courts to which the Sovereign, as to him in another, nay, securing it to him in well as the meanest of his subjects, must always the Court which stays the action; whereas resort for the establishment of rights and pun- the present proceeding deprives the party of ishment of wrongs—those courts to which the all remedy whatever, the House having no Houses of Parliament may most safely resort power of authority to grant him redress. as the abodes of strict justice-courts pure 12. Because it is a great aggravation of the from all taint of corruption, free from all bias mischief so justly complained of, that for the of influence, uncontrolled by the threats last nine years the other House of Parliament either of regal authority or aristocratic inso- has sold all the Papers printed by its authority, lence, or popular violence, and to which nei- allowing a discount to encourage the trade in ther faction nor fear can ever gain access. those publications: and that though this

7. Because the argument that witnesses House has not as yet engaged in this branch must be protected from vexatious and costly of business, yet it communicates its prints to suits is wholly inapplicable to the case, inas- the other, which sells them with its own. much as no one pretends to doubt that they 13. Because the inexpediency, injustice, and may be prosecuted at the instance either of the cruelty of exercising the alleged privileges of Crown or any individual, whether a Member the House are strongly illustrated by the peculiar of the House or not; and if so prosecuted, circumstances of the present case. A complaint never could recover one farthing of their costs, is made by a Peer that an action has been though ever so honourably acquitted.

brought against a witness. The defendant is 8. Because no punishment which can be publicly described as a most respectable perinflicted either by a prosecution or by the son, who had served well in the Peninsula; House upon a witness for the most wanton to the plaintiff is applied the most severe and and the falsest slander of an individual, can even coarse expression; while in no court that afford any reparation whatever to the party tried the case could such praise or censure of Thus injured, as the House has not by law the the character borne by the parties ever be power, if petitioned, to give any such com- heard for an instant, much less proved in evipensation,

dence; and while it is also manifest that pre. 9. Because the protection of witnesses be- cisely the same course must have been pursued fore the Houses of Parliament never can be re- had the respectable man been the slanderer, garded as more essential to the public weal, and the censured man been the injured party, than the protection of witnesses before the Under the prejudices excited by such statecourts of civil and criminal judicature ; yet no ments, the parties are examined at the bar. one pretends to doubt that an action may be The plaintiff

' is compelled to disclose his case

BILLS.

tate.

vorce.

to the defendant. He describes himself as sion of the Privilege Question in Parliament, grievously injured, and as severely suffering in the courts of law, and in this place. from the effects of the attack made upon his

BROUGHAM, character by the defendant. He further de

1

WICKLOW. clares that he was wholly ignorant of the pri- P.S.—The Earl of Radnor was prevented vileges of the House, wholly unconscious of signing this protest by accident. baving acted in breach of them by bringing his suit-a thing the more easily believed when we reflect ihat the nature of parliament- HOUSE OF COMMONS, ary privilege was distinctly stated, in debate, to be wholly unknown to the Judges of the

Monday, July 14, 1845. land, and only understood by the House itself.

MINUTES.]

Public.-1°. Slave Trade (Brazil) : Finally, the attorney, who has been seized and

Municipal Districts, &c. (Ireland). imprisoned for following his client's instruc

90. Turnpike Acts Continuance ; Loan Societies ; Hightions, declared that he acted under the advice way Rates; Militia Ballots Suspension; Valuation (Ireof counsel; and afterwards informed the land); Unlawful Oaths (Ireland); Fisheries (Ireland) ; House, through a Peer, that he had received

Ecclesiastical Patronage (Ireland); Turnpike Roads (Ire

land); Bonded Corn ; Bail in Error. directions to discontinue the action-yet both

Reported.---Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics ; Mas. client and attorney are imprisoned, the attor- ters and Workmen; Borough and Watch Rates; Joint ney after this communication was made ; and Stock Companies ; Art Unions (No. 2). nothing whatever is done against the counsel

Private.-99 White's Charity Estate; Ellison's Eswho deliberately advised the whole proceeding.

Reported.-Brighton, Lewes, aud Hastings Railway (Has14. Because nothing can be more unlike all

tings, Rye, and Ashford Extension); Yoker Road (No. the judicial proceedings to which the present 2); Shrewsbury and Holyhead Road; Heaviside's Dihas been compared, than the course now pursued, inasmuch as whenever the law has de. zo. and passed : Monmouth and Hereford Railway; clared that a court shall not proceed in any

South Eastern Railway (Tunbridge to Tunbridge Wells); case by reason of another jurisdiction being PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. Plumptre, from Clergy

South Wales Railway. interfered with, a particular mode of prevent- and other Inhabitants of Herne Bay, for a more decided ing this proceeding is provided by the known Support of the Church of England.--By Mr. Plumptre, law; and in another aud important particular, from several places, for Better Observance of the Lord's the present proceeding is extremely unlike

Day.-By Mr. Plumptre, from a great number of places.

against the Grant to Maynooth College. --By Mr. Hawes, that of injunction, to which it has been likened,

from A. J. A. Hoffstaedt, a Prisoner in the Queen's for an injunction is commenced to stay pro- Prison, for substituting Affirmations in lieu of Oaths.ceedings in one court, in order that justice By Mr. C. Bruce, and Mr. Pringle, from Presbytery of may be done in another which has possession Moray, against Universities (Scotland) Bill.-By Sir T. of the suit; nor is any one prevented unless

Wilde, from Attorneys and Solicitors, practising in Eng

land, Wales, and Ireland, for Repeal of Stamp Duty on he disobey the order so given; whereas we

Attorneys' Certificates.-By Mr. Masterman, from Memissue no order, but at once proceed to punish bers of the Religious Society of Friends, against Charithe party before he has been guilty of any dis. table Trusts Bill.-From Thomas Bradfield, Westminobedience, or had any opportunity of doing ster, for Repeal of Sixth Session the Coal Trade (Port what we desire he should do, and we punish

of London) Act.-By Mr. J. H. Vivian, from Inhabitants

of Cwm Neath, for Establishment of County Courts.him on the sole ground of his having broken

By Mr. Hume, from Charles Henry Russell, against the some privilege unknown to him, and which

Games and Wagers Bill.-By Mr. Ellice, from Coventry, we admit is understood by nobody but our. for adopting Sanatory Regulations (Health of Towns).selves.

By Sir J. Y. Buller, from Justices of the Peae of the 15. Because, finally, it is all along assumed

County of Devon, against Justices' Clerks and Clerks

of the Peace Bill.-By Sir J. Y. Buller, and Mr. Plumpin the course of these discussions, that what.

tre, from several places, for Alteration of Physic and ever privilege we do not in any case exercise,

Surgery Bill.--By Mr. Plumptre, and Lord Worsley, we cease to possess ; whereas there are many from several places, in favour of Physic and Surgery privileges most undeniably belonging to us, Bill.-By Mr. Ellice, and Mr. Hume, from Glasgow and some which in sormer times were constantly

Montrose, for Alteration of Poor Law Amendment (Scotexercised --some which we still declare to be

land) Bill.-By Mr. Rutherfurd, from Heritors of the

Parish of North Leith, for Postponement of Poor Law ours on the face of our Standing Orders--and

Amendment (Scotland) Bill.-By Lord Worsley, from none of which have now for a long time past Members of the Temperance Society, Barrow, Lincoln, been exercised at all; and in illustration of for Diminishing the Number of Public Houses.-By Mr. the varying usage which exists respecting such C. Hope, from Trustees and Creditors on the great Turnprivileges, it may further be remembered that a

pike Road betwixt Edinburgh and Glasgow by Bathgate

and Airdrie, in favour of Turnpike Roads (Scotland) very great change has come over this question,

Bill. even within the last 40 years; as no one can affect to think that either the Houses of Parlia- The Speaker took the Chair at twelve ment or the courts of justice would at this day o'clock; but only formal business was punish summarily for contempt those acts transacted till five o'clock. which frequently were thus visited within that period of iime, including the very publication for which Sir Francis Burdett was sent to the Tue Case or Joseph Mason.) Mr. Tower, and which raised the last great discus- H. R, Yorke said, that he wished to ask

the right bon, the Secretary of State for when it did take place. The natives were the Home Department, when the order about 1,000 in number, and advanced in of liberation was sent to Norfolk Island in different bodies; and they showed in their behalf of Joseph Mason, who was trans- proceedings considerable military disciported upon a conviction for burglary at pline. The attack took place upon those ihe York Spring Assizes, 1843, which con- who had charge of the blockhouse, near the viction turned out to bave been altogether Aagstaff. Those who had charge of it, and entirely unjust ? Also when the said were taken by surprise, as they were abJoseph Mason might be expected in Eng- sent, being out on a working party. The land ?

person who had the command, was not Sir J. Graham, in reply, stated that aware of the approach of the natives, unaster a conference with the Judge who til he turned round and saw it in their tried the case, and after further investi- possession. A party of seamen and magation, being satisfied of the innocence of riners were landed from Her Majesty's Joseph Mason with respect to the crime ship Hazard, then in the bay, 10 attack for which he was convicted and sentenced the natives; they were but a small party, to transportation; and that another party and the officer commanding ihem, Captain was guilty of that crime, he had considered Robertson, was severely wounded. They it to be his duty to advise the Crown 10 drove the natives from the blockhouse ; give a pardon to this person, and this was but another accident then occurred, as accordingly done on the 1st of January the magazine in the blockhouse blew up last. He had given directions also that and did much mischief. After a long Joseph Mason should be immediately pro- and determined attack, the natives were vided with a free passage to England. everywhere repulsed. The gun, however, He believed that the first intelligence of in one of the stockades had been spiked, the return of this person would be by the while the other had been blown up, and arrival of the individual himself.

the ammunition was nearly exhausted. No

lives of any of the settlers were lost, with New ZEALAND.] Mr. Hawes said, the exception of one gentleman, who was that he was anxious to put a question to killed, by the explosion of the magazine. the Under Secretary for the Colonies. 11 The loss altogether, taking troops, settlers, would be recollected that a few nights ago and seamen into account, was thirteen a question was asked of the hon. Gentle killed. and iwenty-three wounded. The man, as to a conflict having taken place loss of the natives had not been ascerbetween Her Majesty's troops and the tained, but it was very considerable. The natives of New Zealand; and the hon. settlers were then removed to Auckland; Gentleman then stated that the Govern but the missionaries still remained in the ment was without official intelligence on Bay of Islands. In justice to the natives, the subject. He now wished to ask whe- he must say that, after the settlers retired, ther any information had reached the they forwarded a woman and child which Colonial Office since that time.

they found in a blockhouse, under a flag Mr. G. W. Hope replied, that since the of iruce, to the settlement. Many of the question was put to him respecting news natives were armed with American rifles, from New Zealand, which it was stated which they obtained by barter, and most had been made public, he could now state of the remainder were armed with musthat the Colonial Office received despatches kets. Troops, previously to this melanyesterday of the same date as those re- choly event, had been applied for, to the ferred to; and the accounts received by Government of New South Wales; and The Government agreed with those which the North Star had arrived at Auckland appeared in the Times and other news from Sydney on the 23rd of March, with papers three or four days ago. The des two hundred and ten troops and artillery paiches stated, that a renewed attack had on board. The last accounts were dated been made on the settlement in the Bay the 26th of the same monil; and they of Islands, by the chief who had formerly certainly showed that the effects of this pulled down the flagstaff there. There conflict were looked

upon

with was nothing now but an attack of a de. in New Zealand. It did not appear that cidedly insurrectionary character. It was those proceedings grew out of any acci

. suspected some days before that an attack dental circumstance, such as from a col. would iake place; but not at the time I lision or dispute between the natives and

.

a

great alarm

the settlers, but from a determined attempt|tween them and the boers at Natal. The on the part of the chief he had alluded to, io conflict had taken place before the Colodeny the sovereignty of the Queen. Such nial Government could interfere to prewas the object in view, as far as he could | vent it. At present there was a consid. ascertain, and not so much to make an erable force at the Cape, and this had attack upon the settlers. He might add been increased since 1842, by a regiment that the arrival of troops from New South of cavalry 500 strong; and no doubt Sir Wales had done much to restore confi- P. Maitland would take proper steps to dence.

protect the Griquas against further at

tack; but it should be remembered that The EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH.] Mr. they were not Her Majesty's subjects. Hume observed, that he had a Motion Mr. Hindley asked whether the right of for to-morrow, respecting the recall of sovereignty was claimed by this country Lord Ellenborough from India; but he over the boers? felt, under all the circumstances of the Mr. Hope replied, most unquestionably. case, bound to abandon the Motion. The boers who had emigrated, had always

been regarded by Her Majesty's Gover The Boers in South Africa.] Mr. ment as subjects of the British Crown. Hindley wished to ask a question of the Steps bad been taken long ago at Natal Under Secretary of State for the Colo- for this purpose, and a Lieutenant-Governies, respecting some recent proceedings nor had been appointed to govern that in the vicinity of the Cape of Good Hope. place. Had any accounts reached the Government with respect to an attack which, it THE BLOCKADE OF THE RIO DE LA had been stated in the public papers, PLATE.] Mr. Milner Gibson asked whehad been made by the boers, from Natal, ther General Rosas, of Buenos Ayres, had on the natives in or near the boundary of the right to stop the navigation of the the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope? river Plate, and to prevent communicaand also, whether the Governor had left tion with Paraguay by those waters; and Cape Town for the frontier in consequence whether the British Government had acof this?

knowledged the right of General Rosas to Mr. Hope replied, that no report of an close the navigation of the river Plate to official character from the Governor had foreign vessels ? reached the Colonial Office, giving an Sir R. Peel said, that General Rosas, account of the proceedings alluded 10. in the assertion of belligerent rights, had He must state, however, that, from what intimated an intention to establish a he had seen in the public papers, it ap- blockade of the waters referred to; and peared to him that a wrong impression the British Government had expressed its had gone abroad as to the facts of the disposition to assent to the blockade, on case. From the facts that had reached the condition that it should be generally him, it appeared that the collision did not enforced. The French Government had, take place within the boundary of the in the first instance, claimed that French Colony of the Cape. The Griquas, upon vessels should be exempted; and Great whom the attack had been made, were an Britain then of course refused to permit independent tribe living beyond the Cape; the blockade. Subsequently, however, and therefore not within the limits of the France, it was understood, had professed jurisdiction of the British Government. her willingness to have her vessels inA number of missionaries had settled with cluded in the operation of the blockade ; the Griquas, as with an independent na- and Her Majesty's Government then also tion, and the attack made upon Phillipo- assented on the condition, as before, that lis, the capital of that country, did not the blockade was to be, so long as it appear to have been made by persons lasted, of universal application. As to from Natal; for the places were 300 miles the Paraguay, General Rosas, occupying distant from each oiher. The boers who both banks of that river, claimed the right had made the attack were those who, of preventing navigation upon it. With since the abolition of slavery in the Co. reference to the Plate river, the blockade lony, had emigrated to the north of the of that river required the consent of the boundary of the Cape; and it did not ap- other Powers, and Great Britain had aspear that there was any connexion be. I sented on the conditions he had stated.