even a fear of more inveterate opposition, , and injustice. Why, for whom were these should have deterred us from proposing it. new Colleges intended? Who will derive The measure was accepted in Ireland in benefit from them? In the north, the the spirit in which it was proposed. We Presbyterians ; in the south and the west, held communications in regard to it with the Roman Catholics. You ask us to tie the Roman Catholic prelates we had down the discrimination of the Governevery reason to believe that, so far as ment by an enactment. Do you think that the instruction of the Roman Catholic the same spirit that presided over the clergy was concerned, that measure would foundation of those establishments will be received with perfect satisfaction, and not induce the authors of the Bill to seek with acknowledgments of gratitude. But to found them on principles which shall be we did not stop there. We wished to pro- acceptable to the body for whom they are vide for the Roman Catholic youth of Ire intended ? Have we ever denied that the land a secular education of the best descrip- cordial co-operation of the Roman Cathotion, and without stint. True, we have not lics would be essential, almost, to their appointed, by Act of Parliament, chap- success? Do you think that we would lains; but where is the difficulty in the lightly disregard any reasonable proposiway of the appointment of chaplains by tion which they should make? I refer the Roman Catholic bishops? The whole now to the course which we pursued with charge of the right hon. Gentleman is, that respect to the Charitable Bequests Act ; we have not endowed Roman Catholic chap- and I say that there was more real conci

I lains. Now, is there in that any inequality? liation, more benefit derived from the conHave we permitted our natural preposses- duct of the Executive in acting fairly, and sions in favour of the Protestant Church, to unfettered by enactment, in carrying out give it in these new institutions any supe- that law, than if we had consented to your riority? Not in the slightest degree. In proposition, and had fettered ourselves by these new institutions the principle of an enactment. I consider that true conequality has been perfectly preserved. We ciliation, and concert, and co-operation, have given the Catholics every facility for are more likely to arise from the free acreligious instruction. We have given them tion of the Executive Government in a direct sanction and encouragement. We have friendly spirit, than from the introduction admitted that secular instruction will be im- into laws of this kind of an enactment perfect unless accompanied by religious which leaves nothing for the discriminainstruction as its basis; but we have thought tion of the Government. I maintain, (it may be erroneously) that the best way then, that with regard to our conduct as of providing that religious instruction where to Maynooth, this is not the occasion when there is so much jealousy of interference, the right hon. Gentleman should tell us was, to give every facility, but to call on that the worst principle in our adminisparents interested in the moral culture of tration of Irish affairs was that we were their children to provide the means, and to afraid of fear. But I do not take this call on the respective Churches to give rhetorical display of the right hon. Gentheir aid in providing that education. The tleman as an indication of the real feelings principle may be an

It of the Irish people. Whatever the right may be right that we should have en-hon. Gentleman may say of the alienation dowed ministers of the respective creeds; of the Roman Catholics from the Governbut, at any rate, the principle of perfect ment, I have very strong reason to believe, equality has been preserved ; and I must and I am proud to be able to state this to say, that it has been preserved for the first the House, that among the Roman Cathotime. When I say “ first time," I do not lic laity of Ireland there is a strong feel. mean to apply those words in their common ing of approbation of the policy we have acceptation ; but I mean to say, that it is pursued, and a desire to support it. I unusual in any country where there is an was sorry to hear the speech of the right Established Church to place on precisely hon. Gentleman, because I know the use the same footing ministers of creeds dis- that will be made of it in this country. I senting from that Church. Yet I hear 10- know it will be said, “See what you have night from the right hon. Gentleman, after gained by your policy-see the effect of all that has taken place in the course of disregarding the fears and the opinions of the present Session, imputations on the your friends. What hope have you of makGovernment, as if they had treated their ing an impression on the Irish mind, Roman Catholic brethren with partiality when, after all you have done and all you

erroneous one.

a

have encountered, the leading Roman Ca-, you look at the laws which were in force tholic of the House of Commons gets up at the time when the institution was and tells you that unless you go ten times founded, and the proposals which immedifurther, the Irish people will be guilty of ately preceded it, when, I think, the Lord insurrection ?" Sir, those are not the feel. Deputy proposed that St. Patrick's or ings of the Irish people. We do believe Christ's Church should be converted into that we have made an impression ou the a College, can you doubt that, whatever Irish mind—not a perfect one, I admit, may be the words of the charter, or whatbut an impression. It is easy to say, ever may be the view entertained as to the "Why don't you remove at once all these moral and religious education, in intention causes of ill-feeling?” It is very easy for and spirit it was meant to be a College in us to make speeches in the House of Com- connexion with and for the promotion of mons, and overlook all the difficulties the Protestant religion? At least for more which must encompass and do encompass than 200 years Trinity College has been the course of any Government—whether practically in immediate connexion with the noble Lord opposite be at its head or the Established Church. And yet the myself in conducting Irish affairs. I have right hon. Gentleman says we are violatalways felt, I always admitted, those dif- ing the principle of equality because we ficulties; but notwithstanding the speech don't open the scholarships and fellowships of the right hon. Gentleman, I say to the of Trinity College to the Roman Catholics. people of England, “Persevere in the

“Persevere in the I will say nothing now as to the propriety course you have adopted— disregard the of improving the system of education at angry speech which an eloquent man has Trinity College. I think that, with regard made-depend on it that a course of jus- to all such institutions, if you maintain tice, of forbearance, of indulgence, will the objects for which they were originally make a proper impression, and you will, founded, the more extensive you can make sooner or later, reap the fruits of such a them, the better for their stability and policy.” And, Sir, nothing deterred by credit, and for the public good. Sir,' I the speech of the right hon. Gentleman, I wish that on both sides of the House we am perfectly satisfied with the results of could take more comprehensive views than the policy we have adopted. Sir, I repeat mere academical ones in discussing this

I that we have made those liberal allowances question. I think it will be a great adfor Maynooth, and for the advancement of vantage to improve the education at Maysecular education in the west and south of nooth, and increase the means of secular Ireland ; but we are not prepared to re- education generally in the south and west linquish Trinity College, Dublin. That of Ireland. I think that, abstractedly College is possessed of, I believe, a revenue speaking, to do this will be to confer a beof about 25,0001. a year, a less amount of nefit on the people of Ireland. But this I independent revenue, as distinguished look for from this measure, that indefrom that derived from fees for education, pendently of the academical advantages it than that which has just been assigned to will confer, I do fondly trust it will be the Maynooth; assigned permanently, so as to foundation of an improved feeling between place it beyond the control of an annual those who have hitherto been separated by grant, partly that it may no longer be the religious differences. When thousands of source of annual irritation and religious petitions were brought up in this House, excitement, and partly that we might by emanating, I admit, from the religious so doing imply our confidence in the Ro- feeling of this country, when I saw those man Catholic body. We find that Trinity petitions brought up which indicated the College, Dublin, is an institution where Protestant feeling of this country, I was, almost all the ministers of the Church of I admit, proud to be able to state that the Ireland receive their education, founded Protestants of Ireland did view the Memby Queen Elizabeth, and intended, at its bers of Her Majesty's Government, genefoundation, for the promotion of the in- rally speaking, in a different spirit, and terests of the Established Church ; for al- with satisfaction, on account of their symthough in the original charter of Queen pathy with the condition of their Roman Elizabeth there is no express reference Catholic fellow-countrymen. Indeed, I to the disqualification of the Roman Ca- hardly believed it possible that the meatholics, nor any condition in terms expres- sures of the Government would have met sive of a connexion between the College with so little opposition on the part of the and the Protestant Establishment ; yet if Protestant body. I believe also that the

course which has been pursued has tended , dation with what he said about our putting to improve the social relations between the our fingers into the Consolidated Fund? Protestants and the Roman Catholics. I Surely the hon. Gentleman must have will take Galway, from which county I been aware that the hon. Member for presented a petition. That is, perhaps, the Montrose has left his place, or he would most Roman Catholic county in Ireland, not have ventured such a suggestion. but comprising many Protestant Dis- What has become of “the pool of Besenters; but there has been at all times less thesda,” into which all the lame and acerbity of religious feeling there than in maimed institutions of Ireland were to be almost any other part of Ireland. There dipped, as he was pleased to describe the has been on the part of the higher classes Consolidated Fund? It appears now that a desire to live together in peace and the hon. Member does not wish you to diamily, and their example has extended to minish the charge on the Consolidated the lower orders; and the consequence is, Fund by applying the funds of Trinity that there has been less of feud and ani- College to the new institutions ; but you mosity in Galway than any other part of are to charge the Consolidated Fund in Ireland. Sir, I presented a petition in order to increase the revenue of Trinity favour of the measures of Government College. The inquiry is to be made from that county, to which the names of " with a view lo ascertain whether the Mr. Daly, Mr. St. George, and of other income or funds at present applied solely Protestants, who had the strongest feeling to the benefit of Protestants in Trinity in favour of their own religion, but who College, Dublin, might not be beneficially expressly approved of the course Her Ma extended so as to make Roman Catholics jesty's Government had taken. To that and Protestant Dissenters eligible, if otherpetition was also appended the name of wise qualified, to all scholarships," &c. the Roman Catholic warden of Galway; How can the extension of the funds make and ecclesiastics and laity came forward the Roman Catholics eligible? [Mr. Oswith their joint approval of the measure borne was understood to say that he had which the Government had submitted to not drawn up the Resolution.Mr. Sheil : this House. But if, after having endow- They are at the same time to be made ed Maynooth and founded these Colleges, eligible.] Perhaps the right hon. Gentle. we had declared our intention of relinquish- man claims the parentage of the Resolution. ing Trinity College, Dublin also, do you Has the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Osborne) suppose that the social harmony which the face to ask us to vote for a Resolution prevails in Galway and other parts of Ire- which I have shown to be inexplicable, land would have been continued ? Sir, I and which when pressed for explanation utterly deny the charge of the right hon. he himself is obliged to disclaim?" I had a Gentleman, that, the Government have great many other questions to ask as to treated the Roman Catholic body on any the meaning of the Resolution ; but, after other footing than that of equality, when the frauk avowal of the hon. Gentleman we endow Maynooth and establish these that he is not the author of it, and that he Colleges, and at the same time main- cannot explain it, I will spare him the tain, for Trinity College that Protestant torture which I was about to inflict. I character which has been impressed on it must say, however, that it shows how for 200 years. With regard to the Amend- good a critic I am, that having heard ment itself, it appears to me in its wording the speech of the hon. Member, and adhardly worthy of the able speech which mired it for its ability and lucid breintroduced it. It is more confused and vity, I ventured to say that the man unintelligible than might have been ex. who had made that speech could not pected from the hon. Mcmber. The ob- possibly have drawn up the Amendment. ject of the hon. Member seems to be to With respect to the measure itself, and to destroy the Protestant character of Trinity the speech of the right hon. Gentleman College ; but the language in which he the Member for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil), stated his wish is rather confused and un- the right hon. Gentleman referred to the intelligible. He says, “and whether the part which I have taken in relation to Rofunds may not be beneficially extended”. man Catholics of Ireland. He has said [Mr. Osborne: By an additional grant.] that I for a long time offered oppositionBy an addition to the funds of the Col- not an intemperate opposition-to the lege; and by whom provided ? How does claims of the Roman Catholics, and that I the hon. Member reconcile this recommen- afterwards felt it to be my duty to bring forward a measure for a complete and un- , to give up Trinity College, Dublin, as he qualified removal of all the disabilities was to bring forward the Maynooth Bill under which they laboured. He has done and other measures. Indeed, no course justice to the motives by which I was ac- which the right hon. Baronet should adopt tuated. I was well aware of the sacrifice would surprise him. These things the I must incur by taking that course. I was right hon. Baronet did upon what he called well aware that I must not only forfeit the the principle of expediency, but which he representation of that University, to be the would call disgraceful subserviency. He Representative of which was my chief pride, bad lost all contidence in the right hon. but that I must incur the risk of alienat- Baronet, who had abandoned all those ing friends in whose esteem and confidence measures to which he had promised to I placed the utmost value. I took that adhere. He would take his course as a course when I was convinced that my co- sincere Protestant, leaving it to the right operation was indispensable to the success hon. Baronet to adopt principles half Roof that measure; and I assure the right man Catholic, and which might be half hon. Gentleman now, that there is no sa

Mahometan. crifice which I would not make-so much

Lord John Russell : The right hon. importance do I attach to the subject- Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) has hardly there is no sacrifice, however great or however lasting, which I would not make, if, hon. Friend (Mr. Sheil). My right hon.

treated fairly the argument of my right acting with justice towards Protestants

Friend, as a Roman Catholic, says, “ Let and Roman Catholics, I could contribute

us in Ireland have equality.” A very to the establishment of social peace and

fair harmony in the country to which he be- object for any Roman Catholic and for longs.

any Irishman to look 10. It was promised Sir V. Blake was understood to say that --solemnly promised at the Act of Union,

and you have never denied-no party has the petition from Galway, to which the right hon. Baronet had referred, was not Roman Catholics of Ireland. If that be

ever denied--that equality is due to the signed by the Catholic warden of Galway, because there was no such individual.

your principle, so solemoly asserted, let

us look with regard to any measure brought Sir R. Peel asked whether the hon. Ba- before the House, and see whether in reronet did not call upon him with a petition spect to that measure equality is given to from Galway, stating that the petitioners the Roman Catholics of Ireland. This is were anxious that Galway should be one

a question of academical education. I of the seats for the new Colleges ?

admit there are great merits in this BillSir V. Blake admitted that be called great merits, as it tends to promote educaupon the right hon. Baronet to recommend tion in Ireland, and tends to give liberal that Galway should be one of those seats. encouragement to the means of instruction The right hon. Baronet would probably among the commercial and middle classes recollect that, before the announcement of that country. I think it has great merit of the intention of the Government to in being entirely free from any religious found these Colleges was made public, he test. I think that is a distinguishing featook the opportunity of communicating to ture of the Bill, which I am happy to acthe right hon. Baronet certain measures knowledge. But when I come to consider by which great advantages would accrue what will be the state of academical eduto Ireland. [Sir Robert Peel: A ship cation in Ireland when this Bill has passed, canal !) Yes, and also from the establish- comparing Roman Catholics with Proment of Colleges, and he still hoped that testants, the case will be this.

With reGalway would have a University, although spect to clerical education, you may say he confessed he did not now expect those that Trinity College is a place for the advantages from any such institution ecclesiastical education of Protestants ; which it would confer if it were based more and that Maynooth is a place for the econ religion.

clesiastical education of Roman Catholics. Colonel Sibthorp said, he felt it his duty So far there is an apparent equality. But as a Protestant to oppose the Amendment when I come to consider the means for the proposed by the bon. Gentleman opposite. general education of the higher classes in He admitted that the time might come that country-I mean an education for the when the right hon. Baronet at the head learned professions with a view to obtaine of the Government might be as disposed ing distinction in various pursuits and