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was hopeless, both parties would remem-, ask these people to come back again ; but ber that they were Christians.

with one voice, they protested against my reThe Marquess of Breadaibane replied. solution, and said, with an earnestness which He thought the charge of intolerance im bespoke the earnestness of their hearts, that

if I would remain to preach, they would come puted to the Free Church somewhat mis. back, and remain to hear me if it were till applied. He believed they were ready inidnight.” 10 act on the principle of giving toleration were not such things enough to excite to all religious persuasions - amongst the feelings of the people? As toleration others, to the Roman Catholic. This was the description given of one of these was, in theory, a part of the Constitution, meetings by the clergyman who offici- it ought to be observed in every part of

the country aled :"I too, Sir, have been at Canobie ; and the Table.

Petitions read, and ordered to lie on never shall I forget the scene that was there presented to my sight. I went to Canobie amid snow and storm, and had formed the

New ZEALAND.] The Earl of Chiresolution within myself not to speak to them chester presented a petition from the of the privations and sufferings they were un. Church Missionary Society of Africa and dergoing. I was glad, Sir, that I had formed the East, respecting the rights of the nathis resolution, for I could not have trusted tives to the full enjoyment of their lands, myself to speak to them of the wrongs they and praying that the same may be effecwere called to endure. When I went from Langholm on Sabbath morning to the place tually secured to them. It siated, that where I was to preach, the roads were covered there were 35,000 attendants at religious with the melting snow, the wind was biting worship, 15,000 scholars, and 300 native cold, the Esk was roaring in full food, and a teachers. The petitioners stated, that more bleak and wintry prospect it is impos- from the period of the cession of the land sible 10 conceive. On turning a point in the by the native princes, they did everything road, I suddenly came upon 500 people cola to promote harmony between the aborilected together to hear the Gospel ; and so sudden, impressive, and desolate 'was the gines and the colonists: that they were whole scene, that when it broke upon our deeply impressed with the necessity of view, the man who drove me 10 the spot having the land question speedily and looked in my face, and burst into tears.' I finally settled. That the Queen, by the never saw such a scene before ; God grant Treaty of Waitangi, guaranteed full and that I may never see such a scene again ! Hod undisputed possession of their lands to the Duke of Buccleuch been there, he could the natives, and that, in the opinion of not have withheld his tears at the sight. The the petitioners, the Report of ihe Comhardest heart must have melted to see so many, young and old, assembled on that open

mittee of the House of Commons, affectroad for the worship of the God of their fa- ing the rights of the native princes, was thers. A tent was erected for me under the contrary to the principles of justice, and leafless branches of a tree, which, in truth, af- to the express declaration of the Treaty forded little protection to me or to them: but, of Waitangi. Their Lordships could unSir, I found I could not preach in that tent, derstand the alarm felt by ihe Society, It may seem to some an unaccountable kind of feeling in me; but you can understand it. whose petition he had read, as well as I felt as if I could not preach in that tent the alarm of all those who took an interwhile those poor people stood shivering round est in their happiness and welfare. The me. I have been much struck to find that, missionaries of the Society were alarmed in very similar circumstances, when preaching at a course of policy being suggested, the on a bleak moor, Richard Cameron, in his pursuance of which would set aside the wanderings, was accommodated with a tent; | Treaty of Waitangi, which provided, that but he felt that, while the people stood un-natives should not have lands taken away protected around him, he could not preach in it. It was with the same feeling that, upon

from them by virtue of the sovereignty this occasion, I could not preach to those over the island, ceded by them to the people from the tent. I left it and took up British Crown. Nothing, he thought, my place upon the ground. Before I was could be more clear, than the actual half through with the sermon, lashing torrents meaning of the Treaty; and be believed of rain came down upon me, and soon I was that the New Zealanders were sufficiently almost as wet as if I had been dragged through the river that rolled by us in winter floods. enlightened and educated, perfectly to unOn the conclusion of the service-while the derstand the interpretation which comrain fell heavy-I said to some gentlemen mon sense would put upon it. To act in who were present, that it would be cruelty to 'any way in contravention to the Treaty,

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would be to pursue a course at once, which he had seen on the state of New fraught with disaster to the natives and Zealand was most creditable to the misto the settlers in New Zealand. He wished sionaries, and proved them to be most to take the opportunity of making a state- worthy and disinterested men. One of ment to the House upon the part of the the great objects he had in making Church Missionary Society, because, these remarks was, if possible, to draw among other charges made by the friends from Government some assurance that the of the Company, was one which accused alarm felt by the petitioners, from the the missionaries in New Zealand of having cause to which he had alluded, was acted in an improper manner ; of having, unfounded. He believed that the mainin fact, impeded the progress of the Colo- tenance of that interpretation hitherto put ny, and of having obtained—not by the upon the Treaty of Waitangi was of the most reputable means-a very large quan- greatest importance to our own reputation tity of land. Now, the land in question for good faith, and to the cause of the was held under certain regulations made civilization and progress of New Zealand. by the Missionary Society, which allowed so long as the missionaries had been una certain sum of money to the mission- molested by voluntary settlers, nothing aries for every child above fifteen years of could have been more satisfactory than age; that money had been invested in the way in which the natives had conthe purchase of land, obtained, not for ducted themselves, and nothing more rapid the private advantages of the missionaries, than the progress they had made in but for the public good. The regulations Christian knowledge. He hoped that the had been strictly acted upon in these Government would feel the great importpurchases, and he possessed authentic ance of promoting that object, and would information of the exact quantity of land recollect that it could only be attained by so obtained. The Society had also pur- maintaining the strictest good faith tochased a certain portion of the land for wards the natives themselves by showing the purposes of the mission, but the whole that we were alive to their bet interests, of this property had been placed at the and that we had taken New Zealand undisposal of the Crown. No missionary der our protection, as much with a view held more land than he was strictly en- to their benefit as our own. titled to hold under the regulations of the Lord Stanley : Your Lordships will feel Society, and there was no instance of a mis that it would be very inconvenient were I sionary's claim having been disallowed by at all to enter at this time upon the gethe Government Commissioner. In the cases neral question connected with New Zeain which a reduction had been made in the land. I have no intention of troubling quantity of land possessed by missionaries, you with a single word upon that subject; the reduction had been effected with the but the noble Earl has indicated a desire perfect consent of the holders. He would to hear the views of Her Majesty's Goremind the House of the favourable testi- vernment as to that Treaty by which the mony borne to the conduct of the mis- sovereignty of New Zealand was ceded to sionaries of the Church Society, by all who the British Crown. I have no hesitation had had an opportunity of witnessing it. in giving the noble Earl the assurance

į New Zealand had been visited by many i which he seems to desire. At the same travellers—some of them in an official time, however, I should have thoughtcapacity; it had been recently visited by i whatever may have been the suspicions— two bishops, and the conduct of the mis- / whatever may have been the blame cast sionaries had also been watched by wit- j upon the Government in the matter that nesses not likely to be partial to them the course which they have pursued would he meant the emissaries of a neighbouring, have prevented its being imagined for a not a rival institution—the Wesleyan mis- moment that they entertained an idea of sion, the missionaries of the Church So- avoiding, or in any way violating a Treaty ciety had been watched, and their con- by which they consider themselves to be duct had been commented upon by all bound. Almost the whole of the difficulty those witnesses to it, and he had never , with which the Government has had to heard it asserted that they had been led contend in New Zealand, has arisen out of away from their ministerial duties by any the apparently conflicting engagements occupation connected with the possession entered into towards the New Zealand of land. On the contrary, every report | Company on the one hand, and, under


the Treaty of Waitangi, towards the na- Colonial Office had to contend with in tives on the other. Had we felt ourselves the cases of Colonies founded by unat liberty to depart from the strictest ful- authorized settlers. Most of the difficulfilment of the terms of that Treaty, we ties of New Zealand had arisen from that should have met but little difficulty; and cause, and from the character of many in proof of the fact, our embarrassments of the original settlers in New Zealand, have arisen mainly from our feeling that, comprehending, as they did, some of however desirable and important it is to the worst portion of the population of promote the colonization of New Zealand, Australia and of this country. He reyet that object would be very dearly pur- peated that he did not by any means fully chased were it to be obtained by the adopt the Report of the New Zealand slightest reflection on the good faith of Committee; but still the opinion of that this country, or by any liability to the im- body was entitled to very considerable putation that we wished to shrink from an weight, when it was recollected that it had engagement we entered into with the na- been appointed with the approval and tives—an engagement which I think the concurrence of the Colonial Office. He natives perfectly understand, the full im- did not want to go beyond the fact that portance of which I think they are as the Report of the Committee had been deeply impressed with as we can be-and generally adverse to the system pursued an engagement which we have always by the Colonial Office in ihe administrafelt that the Government of this country tion of New Zealand ; and the members were bound to adhere to in its fullest of the Committee so far had been amply integrity. I assure your Lordships that supported by events which had occurred we have strictly, in every instruction in the Colony itself. But be entirely prowe have issued (and the Papers upon tested against the doctrine that the finding the Table prove the fact), insisted on tault, even by inference, with the manthe strict fulfilment of the spirit and the agement of New Zealand, was to suggest letter of the Treaty of Waitangi. Our that there had been any

bad faith or double instructions upon that point have been uni- dealing on the part of the Colonial Office. form. They were given to Captain Fitz-Any such charge was as much unsupportroy, and whatever instructions may have ed by proof as it was contradicted by the been since despatched to his successor, they character of the noble Lord at the head have in this respect remained unaltered. of thai branch of the public service. Sul, We have told him—our declarations to however, a more melancholy instance of ibe effect have been reiterated-that while mismanagement than that displayed in he should seek in every possible mode to the local government of New Zealand, promote the amicable settlement of the never was exhibited in the colonial ad. affairs of the New Zealand Company, that ministration of any country; and he was he should always consider it to be the convinced that until there should be a paramount duty devolved upon him, spe- clear and distinct exposition, upon the cially, and scrupulously, and religiously to part of Government, of the exact confulfil our solemn engagements with the struction which it would be prepared to natives of New Zealand.

put upon the Treaty of Waitangi, that Lord Monteagle thought that it would the state of confusion which now existed be very satisfactory were the noble Lord in New Zealand would continue. He to state more definitely what was the pre-wished to guard himself from being surcise construction put by the Government posed to acquiesce in all the statements of upon the Treaty in question. He would the petitioners; but he did believe that wish to know whether he carried the prin- had the missionaries been left unmolested ciple so far as to assume that there was to by the vicious population which had remain to a semi-barbarous population such settled around them, the results of their a right over the whole of the immense terri. labours would have been such as had been tory of New Zealand as would preclude the anticipated by his noble Friend who had possibility of our exercising a right of go- presented their petition. But from the evil vernment, except by the permission of the influence exerted upon New Zealand by natives themselves. With respect to the its first settlers, a train of calamities arose. general subject, he was far from adopting Insults bad been offered to the British all the views of the New Zvaland Com-name, crimes had been commitied, wars miitee. He knew the difficulties which the I waged to an extent unequalled in the

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history of our colonial administration. He quess who preceded him—that not only repeated that the Colonial Office was not by the present but by former Parliaments, to be blamed for this. He had been for a has the same construction been placed short time in that Office himself; and he upon the Treaty of Waitangi-that concould not forget not only the difficulties struction which never was disputed by any but the perfect impossibility which, as it authority, by any party, until the year seemed to him, existed in many of the 1842. I am prepared also to show, and duties of that Office, as at present consti- whenever I am called on I shall show, in this tuted, being satisfactorily performed. In House, that whatever may be the appa1834 a change had taken place in the rent discrepency between the conditions Colonial Office, which it would have been of arrangement entered into by Lord John well to have adhered to. Our Colonies Russell with the New Zealand Company, had increased in numbers and in import and those concluded under the Treaty of ance, to such an extent, that his noble Waitangi, that discrepancy is not real, Friend, with all his energy and ability-or, but apparent, and that it arose from indeed, that two equal to his noble Friend, Lord John Russell acting on the misrewould be incapable of carrying on the presentation of facts made to him by the manifold duties of the Colonial Secretary New Zealand Company. He conceded to in such a manner as to be generally satis- that Company, on the part of the Crown, factory and generally successful, and as a certain number of acres, providing that it had been comparatively easy to manage that number of acres should be taken them fifty years ago. He expressed his within a certain district-the foundation regret that the improvements introduced of the whole arrangement being the asinto the constitution of the Colonial sertion and declaration of the New ZeaOffice, in 1834, had not been adhered to. land Company, that they had purchased

The Earl of Chichester never consid- the whole of that district, comprising a ered that the Government could be fairly space of about twenty millions of acres, charged with any breach of faith in their from the natives themselves. In that way, administration of the affairs of New Zea- and in that way alone, can the arrangeland. The Church Missionary Society, ments of the noble Lord be consistent. In however, had reasonable grounds for the that way they are consistent, and in that fears expressed in their petition. He was way the declaration and agreement made satisfied with the distinct intimation of by Lord John Russell, confirming, instead his noble Friend at the head of the Colo- of contradicting, the Treaty of Waitangi nial Deparlment, and he was sure that / -pamely, that on the part of the Crown, that intimation would be equally satisfac- he confirmed the claim of the Company tory to the petitioners,

to a certain tract of land, on the assumpLord Stanley : I beg to say one word. tion that they had bought it from the naI should have wished that my noble Friend (tives. In that way I contend the arrangehad either abstained from touching on the ments of the noble Lord are perfectly contopics to which he has alluded, or that he sistent. His assumption, proved by his had brought forward the subject in a more agreement, leads to the inference, that, distinct form, and at a period of the in his opinion, the natives had a right to evening, and in a state of the House, wlien sell to the Company that tract of land I could bave entered into a full explana- which they did not inhabit ; and I can tion of the different points alluded to show hy repeated Acts of Parliament that Under present circumstances, then, I will that right to sell on the part of the naabstain from doing anything but answer- lives, not the land which they occupied ing the demand made upon me by my and enjoyed, but the waste land which noble Friend as to the construction which they did not occupy or enjoy, was uniGovernment is prepared to place upon formly recognised during the period from the Treaty of Waitangi, The whole ques- 1836 to 1842. I am not prepared to say tion of that Treaty I will not argue now. that there may not be some districts If my noble Friend will give me an op- wholly waste and upcultivated—there are portunity of arguing it, I will undertake such in the northern island—but they are to prove to demonstration, that not only by few in number; but I know that a large the present, but by all former Govern- portion of the district in question is disinents-that oot only by the noble Lord tributed among various tribes, all of whom who preceded me, but by the noble Mar- have as perfect a knowledge of the boun

Sir Frederic Thesi.


daries and limits of their possessions, prosecutions would be instituted especi. boundaries and limits in some places na-ally by informers. tural, in others artificial-as satisfactory The Lord Chancellor remarked, that and well defined, as were, one hundred the object of Government had of late been years ago, the bounds and marshes of to get rid, as far as possible, of prosecu. districts occupied by great proprietors and lions by common informers penalties, their clans in the Highlands of Scotland. since nothing could be worse than a system With respect to the greater portions of under which they were encouraged. ProNew Zealand, I assert that the limits and secutions by the law officers of the Crown rights of tribes are known and decided had, in many instances, been substituted, upon by native law. I am not prepared and an alteration might, he thought, be to say what number of acres in New Zea introduced into this Bill in Committee land are so possessed; but that portion which without endangering it. is not so claimed and possesed by any tribe,

Bill read 2a. is, by the act of sovereignty, vested in the House adjourned. Crown. But that is a question on which native law and custom have to be consulted. That law and that custom are

HOUSE OF COMMONS, well understood among the natives of the

Thursday, July 10, 1845. islands. By them we have agreed to be bound, and by them we must abide. Minutes.] New Member Sworn.

ger, for Abingdon. These laws these customs and the Biils. Public.-10. Real Property; Assignment of Terms; right arising from them on the part of the Granting of Leases ; Taxing Master, Court of Chancery

(Ireland); Turnpike Roads (Ireland). Crown-we have guaranteed when

20. Drainage (Ireland); Joint Stock Companies ; Geologiaccepted the sovereignty of the islands;

cal Survey ; Land Revenue Act Amendment ; Criminal and be the amount at stake smaller or Jurisdiction of Assistant Barristers (Ireland) ; Art Unions

(No. 2); Masters and Workmen. larger; so far as native title is proved —

Reported.-Bankruptcy Declaration. be the land waste or occupied-barren or 3o. and passed : -Colleges (Ireland). enjoyed, those rights and litles the Crown Private.-90. Shrewsbury and Holyhead Road.

Reported. - Dublin Pipe Water (No. 2); South Devon of England is bound in honour to main

Railway; Launceston and South Devon Railway; Goole tain; and the interpretation of the Treaty and Doncaster Railway. of Waitangi, with regard to these rights,

3o. and passed :-Lady Sandy's (or Turner's) Estate ; Glas.

gow, Barrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway. is, that, except in the case of the intelli- PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. Hutt, from Gateshead, gent consent of the natives, the Crown for Alteration of Law relating to Church Property.-By

Mr. Bannerman, from Aberdeen, in favour of the Unihas no right to take possession of land,

versities (Scotland) Bill.-- By Mr. E. Denison and other and having no right to take possession of hon. Members, from Stockholders and other Inhabitants land itself, it has no righi-and so long

of New South Wales, for Repeal of certain Acts relating

to that Colony.--By Mr. Fuller, from County of Sussex, as I am a Minister of the Crown, I shall

for Relief from Taxation of Agriculture.—By Mr. Sernot advise it 10 exercise the power-of jeant Murphy, and Mr. J. O'Connell, from a great num

ber of places in Ireland, against the Colleges (Ireland) making over to another party that which

Bill.By Sir Howard Douglas, from the Mayor, Alderit does not itself possess.

men, and Burgesses of Liverpool, against the Deodands Petition read and ordered to lie on the Abolition (No. 2) Bill.-By Mr. B. Chapman and other Table.

hon. Members, from the Connty of York, in favour of the Ten Hours' Bill in Factories.-By Mr. L. Bruges, froin

Thomas Phillips and Robert Willett, for Alteration of FOREIGN LOTTERIES Bill. Lord


Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics Bill.-By Mr.

Sheil, from Guardians of the Clogheen Union, against the Stanley moved that this Bill be now read

Parochial Settlement Bill.--By Mr. Sheil, from several 2a.

places, for Alteration of Physic and Surgery Bill.-By Lord Monteagle said, that nothing had

Mr. Hawes, from a great number of places, in favour of

the Physic and Surgery Bill.-By Viscount Sandon, from been farther from the intention of the

Members of the Royal College of Surgeons residing in Government of which he had been a Liverpool, for Inquiry into the Government, &c. of the Member, than to encourage lotteries for

Royal College of Surgeons. From St. John Mason,

Barrister at Law, for Alteration of Law relating to the advantage of speculators at home or Tenure of Land (Ireland). abroad; in fact, a Bill had been framed with the contrary effect; but he did not Commons' EncLOSURE BILL.) The approve of that part of the Bill which de- House met at twelve o'clock, and proprived the informer of all inducement to ceeded in Committee with the remaining follow up a prosecution where the law had clauses, which, with Amendments, were been violated; he feared that, if the pe- agreed to, and the Report was ordered to cuniary motive were withdrawn, very few l be received.

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