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HANSARD'S

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES,

IN THE FIFTH SESSION OF THE FOURTEENTH PAR-

LIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN

AND IRELAND, APPOINTED TO MEET 11 NOVEMBER, 1841,
AND FROM THENCE CONTINUED TILL 4 FEBRUARY, 1845, IN THE
EIGHTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF

HER MAJESTY QUEEN VICTORIA.

SIXTH AND LAST VOLUME OF THE SESSION.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

MINUTES.

Friday, July 4, 1845.

BILLS Public.-1 Seal Office Abolition.

24. Jurors (Ireland).

Reported.-Real Property Conveyance (No. 2).

3. and passed :-Banking (Ireland) Bishops' Patronage

(Ireland).

Private.-1. Norwich and Brandon Railway (Diss and

Dereham Branches); London and South Western Metro-

politan Extension Railway; Glasgow Junction Railway;

Irish Great Western Railway (Dublin to Galway).

2. Saint Helen's Improvement; Oxford, Worcester, and

Wolverhampton Railway; Oxford and Rugby Railway;

Great Southern and Western Railway (Ireland); Dublin

and Belfast Junction Railway; Cork and Bandon Rail-

way; Great Western Railway (Ireland) (Dublin to Mul-

lingar and Athlone); Great North of England, Clarence

and Hartlepool Junction Railway; Richmond (Surrey)

Railway; Liverpool and Manchester Railway; Newry

and Enniskillen Railway; Waterford and Limerick

Railway.

Reported.-Taw Vale Railway and Dock: Belfast Im-

provement; Manchester and Birmingham Railway (Ash-

ton Branch); Ashton, Stalybridge, and Liverpool June-

tion (Ardwick and Guide Bridge Branches) Railway;

Ulster Railway Extension; Manchester, South Junction,

and Altrincham Railway; Eastern Counties Railway (Ely

and Whittlesea) Deviation; London and Brighton Rail-

way (Horsham Branch); Londonderry and Enniskillen

Railway; Chester and Birkenhead Railway Extension;

Chelsea Improvement; North Wales Railway; Liverpool

and Bury Railway (Bolton, Wigan, and Liverpool Rail-

way and Bury Extension); Scottish Midland Junction

VOL. LXXXII. {s}

Third

B

to them, or engagement entered into, by the Government, to extend to them the privileges they now asked.

Amendment negativet. Bil passed.

the said book to the sheriff, which book should be called "The Jurors' Book." This provision, he thought, was quite suff cient to prevent all mistakes which might occur in the making up of the one general list from the several particular lists. Not withstanding, however, all these precautions in securing an accurate transcript of the particular lists into the general list, which was afterwards to be copied into the book to be delivered to the sheriff, it was possible that some error might creep in: to correct this, he proposed to enact that the clerk of the peace should cause jury lists, so allowed and signed, and the general list, to be placed among the records in his office, and allow the same to be inspected at all reasonable times, without fee, by any person who, by the 3rd and 4th William IV., would be entitled to peruse the copies of any of the jury lists delivered to the clerk of the peace by the high constable and collector or collectors. rided, that if the Jurors Book should be found to contain any name which should not be contained in any one of the jury lists, or if ary name which should be contained in any one of rock lith, should not appear in such book, it should be lawful for Her Majesty's Comm of Quect's Dench in Dublin, or any Judge of the said Court, uven complaint there'd made to the said Counter Valge, to order the said sheria or under-sheriff and the clerk of the peace respectively, to prolong the sa Jurors' justes present at alt ge- book all the sill fury lists to the said

JURORS IRELAND B] The Lord Cancelior, in moving the Second Reading of tax bill for making further regulations for mon etcctually securing the correctness of the Jurers Books in irtant, said that this was & subject of great importance. Every thing connectal, with ertaming & fair, full, and invartial selection of juries, must be of great interest tu every person concerned in the Luk gummistration of justice. The difficulties in at 1 uza. vil he would state a few words. Er the Statute of the Sr. and 4d Willm N., .. the higi consulbies and eliterors in the differen: distints in ireland went ordered once a year is prejury usts of all persons qualifred to serve vities, and to send those ists n tar tiemie, the peart dead county, vich lists were t Je corrected by the magistrates i per sessions, and signed The pures were then to make out on genera Is inva all the lists so and deliver the sack to the cata di tu past. War was in ther IT I QUAM, mi kiver the boot to the * DATA, by him as

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conduct of the sheriff. He would suggest
that copies of the lists and books should be
kept in more than one place, to guard
against alterations being made in them.
He did not see why this
There was another point he wished to
advert to.
should not be made a general measure
for the whole Empire.

{JULY 4}
notoriety in the case out of which this
Bill had arisen-he meant Mr. Pierce
Mahony. He thought, as far as his judg-
ment went, that the provisions of the Bill
would be effectual for the object sought;
and the only provision he suggested was
this according to the present law the col-
lectors were authorized, at the public ex-
pense, to print and circulate a certain num-
but this was not com-
ber of their lists;
pulsory, it was only permissive. What
Mr. Mahony required was, that the col-
lectors should be required to print their
lists. He (the Lord Chancellor) was ready
to adopt that suggestion when the Bill
went into Committee.

Lord Campbell thought the Bill of his
noble and learned Friend was calculated to
be effectual for the purpose he desired. At
the same time, he was of opinion, that it
did not go far enough for all the purposes
that it was desirable should be effected. It
did not reach the point of law relating to
the challenge of the array. Their Lord-
ships were aware that it was a privilege
given by the Common Law of England to a
party put on his trial that he might challenge
the array of the jury; but the Judges were
of opinion that the right of challenge could
only be exercised in the case where unin-
differency or misconduct of the sheriff
could be alleged. Lord Denman, on the
contrary, was of opinion, and he (Lord
Campbell) concurred with him, that the
law was different from what the majority
of the Judges had laid it down. It ap-
peared to him (Lord Campbell) that a
more general enactment was necessary to
meet this point; for there were many
other cases in which parties might fairly
challenge the array besides those of unin-
differency or misconduct on the part of the
sheriff.

The Lord Chancellor said, that the
challenge to the array could only arise
where there was an error between the lists
signed by the magistrates and the Jurors'
Book; and he thought sufficient precau-
tion had been adopted to prevent any such
He was, however, willing to meet
any particular case in which an error
might have occurred, which should not
necessarily challenge the whole jury list for
the assizes.

ervor.

Lord Campbell would strictly confine himself to a challenge of the array in particular cases.

Lord Denman thought it possible that there might be error in the lists, besides that arising from unindifferency or mis

The Lord Chancellor considered that
sufficient security was afforded against any
alteration in the lists, by requiring the
magistrates to sign them. With respect to
what had been said by his noble and
learned Friend respecting the propriety of
intimate the intention of the Government
making the measure general, he had to
to introduce a measure for England, framed
Bill read 2a.
in a corresponding spirit.

RAILWAYS COASTING TRADE.] The
Marquess of Londonderry called the atten-
tion of the Government to the danger in
which the coasting trade of the country
more particularly in the coal trade of the
was placed by the increase of railways,
north, and hoped the subject would receive
The noble Marquess moved for
the earnest consideration of the Govern-
ment.
certain Returns connected with the sub-
ject.

The Earl of Dalhousie thought the noble
Marquess had overrated the danger. The
charge for coals per railway would be 15s.
a ton, irrespective of the charges in the
port of London, while by sea it was only
7s. There appeared to be no present dan-
ger of railways competing with the coast-
ing trade.

Lord Hatherton thought the apprehensions of the noble Marquess were not altoof England Railway many of the directors gether unfounded. In the Great North were coal owners, and they had made a contract to supply their coals from Durham to York at three farthings a ton up to a The practical result had given quantity, and beyond that at a farthing a ton. been that coals had been delivered from Durham to York at five-eighths of a penny per ton. He had no doubt that in time coals would be delivered from the midland counper railway at a halfpenny a ton per mile. ties at all the great marts of consumption He fully agreed that the support of the to which much ought to be sacrificed. coasting trade was a great national object,

Lord Ashburton said that the coasting trade, which was one of the vital interests of the country, ought not to be sacrificed

B 2

to them, or engagement entered into, by, the said book to the sheriff, which book the Government, to extend to them the should be called “ The Jurors' Book.” privileges they now asked.

This provision, he thought, was quite suffiAmendment negatived. Bill passeil

. cient to prevent all mistakes which might

occur in the making up of the one general JURORS (IRELAND) Bill.] The Lord list from the several particular lists. NotChancellor, in moving the Second Reading withstanding, however, all these precauof the Bill for making further regulations for tions in securing an accurate transcript of more effectually securing the correctness of the particular lists into the general list, the Jurors' Books in Ireland, said that this which was afterwards to be copied into was a subject of great importance. Every- the book to be delivered to the sheriff, it thing connected with obtaining a fair, full, was possible that some error might creep in: and impartial selection of juries, must be to correct this, he proposed to enact that of great interest to every person concerned the clerk of the peace should cause jury in the due administration of justice. The lists, so allowed and signed, and the general difficulties he had to deal with he would list, to be placed among the records in his state in a few words. By the Statute of office, and allow the same to be inspected the 3rd and 4th William IV., c. 91, the at all reasonable times, without fee, by high constables and collectors in the differ- any person who, by the 3rd and 4th William ent districts in Ireland were ordered once IV., would be entitled to peruse the copies a year to prepare lists of all persons quali- of any of the jury lists delivered to the fied to serve on juries, and to send those clerk of the peace by the high constable and lists to the clerk of the peace of each county, collector or collectors. He had also prowhich lists were to be corrected by the vided, that if the Jurors' Book should be magistrates in petty sessions, and signed found to contain any name which should by them. The parties were then to make not be contained in any one of the jury out one general list from all those lists so lists, or if any name which should be conhanded in, and deliver the same to the tained in any one of such lists, should not clerk of the peace, who was to copy them appear in such book, it should be lawful into a book, and deliver that book to the for Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench sheriff, which was to be used by him as in Dublin, or any Judge of the said Court, the jury-book for the ensuing year.

He

upon complaint thereof made to the said proposed to repeal the latter part of this Court or Judge, to order the said sheriff'er enactment, and instead thereof to enact under-sheriff and the clerk of the peace that when such list should be duly cor- respectively, to produce the said Jurors' rected by the justices present at such spe- Book and the said jury lists to the said cial sessions, the lists should be marked in Court or Judge; and if upon inspection of their presence with the successive numbers the said book and jury lists any such error 1, 2, 3, &c., according to the number of should be found in the said Jurors Book, such lists; and when the lists, so corrected the said Court or Judge should order the and numbered, should be allowed and same to be amended, and such amnendment signed by them, the justices should cause should be forth with made and signed by the one general list to be made out therefrom, said sheriff, or under-sherifl, and clerk of containing the names of all persons whose the peace, in the presence of the said qualification should have been so allowed, Court or Judge. He thought he had arranged according to rank and property, thus sufficiently provided for insuring a which general list should be compared by correspondence between the Jurors' Book the presiding justices at such sessions with and the particular lists which were to be the lists so allowed, signed, and numbered, corrected by the magistrates, who, in corand should be corrected by such justices (if recting them, would act judicially, and necessary) by reference to such lists, and without appcal. If any suggestion could be made to correspond therewith; and the be made for giving additional security presiding justices at such sessions should against error, and of making the Jurors' sign the general list at the foot of each Book correspond with the original lists of page, and deliver the same, together with the high constables and collectors, than the lists so signed, to the clerk of the what this Bill provided, he should be glad peace, who should thereupon cause the to adopt it. He thought it proper to mensame to be copied, in the same order in tion that, since the Bill was printed, a which the names should be arranged in the communication had been made to him by general list, in a book, and should deliver a gentleman who acted a part of some

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