of him to interfere with the progress of an , the hon. Member had incurred a very great important public work, he would not let responsibility; and he thought the House the matter rest ; but he had the personal ought to know the name of the party upon assurance of the gentleman whose petition whom the hon. Member relied, so that he ke presented, that the allegations were might not be allowed to escape with imtrue in the main, and that he was able to punity, if it should turn out that he had substantiate them. It was clear that in- been deceiving the House for his own purquiry during the present Session was out poses.

He would ask, how were the parof the question, but next Session he would ties who had been misrepresented in so gladly promote an inquiry into this sub- gross a manner as they now alleged, to obscription list and into the allegations against tain redress? It was a most serious thing it.

to allege against any gentleman, but more Mr. Warburton said, that the House particularly against one in business, that ought to consider in what manner it would he was not able to meet the engagements proceed on an allegation of this kind aim- he had entered into; and if there were ing against the Bill in this stage of it. the most remote probability of entering When a similar petition was brought to upon an inquiry and concluding it before him respecting another Railway Bill, he the Session closed, it ought to be begun said there were two ways of inquiring into to-morrow, and prosecuted, even if the the truth of the allegations - viz., by a Committee sat from eight in the morning Select Committee, or a Committee on the till eight in the evening. Bill; and he had said that he would not The Chancellor of the Exchequer sugmove for a Select . Committee when the gested the propriety of the House acting truth of the allegations could be inquired with great caution upon that occasion. into by a Committee on the Bill. The The Committee on the Bill was the proper parties were aware of all the circumstances tribunal for entering into all such inquiries. which they now represented to the House But the parties there entered into a comwhen they were before the Committee. promise, one party contracting not to bring That was the proper tribunal to prosecute one matter under the notice of the Comthe inquiry, and, to inform itself upon the mittee, and the other party giving an equimanner in which the subscription lists of valent. That being the case, was it fair or all railways were made up. He trusted just that the party who had a perfect cog. the House would not entertain the peti- nizance of all the facts he now alleged, tion.

when before the Committee, should come Mr. Wakley said, the petition presented in upon the third reading of the Bill, and by the hon. Member for Lambeth yester- ask for a full inquiry into the facts at the day was allowed to be printed with the public expense? As one petition had been Votes, upon a distinct understanding that printed with the Votes, let the House order a Motion was to be founded upon it then ; the counter petition to be made public yet nothing appeared to be further from through the same channel, and some degree the thoughts of the hon. Member than to of justice would be done. proceed with the petition. The Gentlemen Mr. Brotherton : The whole mischief opposite and those named in the petition arose from a fraudulent compact entered considered themselves calumniated, and he into between the parties before the Stand. thought they were right. The calumnies ing Orders’ Committee, in order to keep were printed with the Votes of the House, them in the dark. It was only when the which were openly and publicly sold. He parties quarrelled that the House became would warn the House that it was a dan- acquainted with the facts of the case. gerous practice they were beginning upon, Mr. T. Dumcombe : The right hon. the and might lead them into much trouble. Chancellor of the Exchequer had not stated The hon. Member for Lambeth ought to the facts of the case fairly. The prayer of name the party upon whose faith and in the petition before the House went further formation he undertook to present the peti- than asking for an immediate inquiry. The tion. Yesterday the House was led to be petitioners prayed for leave to bring actions lieve that the hon. Member had everything against their slanderer; they asked the leave prepared to substantiate. (Mr. Hawes : 1 of the House to bring actions for defama.

[ have. now prepared to go on.] tion. He thought that as to time, there There was no Notice on the Paper in the was quite sufficient to enable a Committee to name of the hon. Member upon the subject. inquire so as to enable the parties, who If the allegation of the petition were false, said that they were aggrieved, to prosecute

I am

Mr. Bruce, if the allegations made by him, mis-statement, or rather a mistake, into were false ; and it would appear from the which the hon. Member had fallen. What counter statement made, that there was no he had stated, was, that he would support truth in these allegations. The House the hon. Gentleman's Motion for tbe print. was bound to afford the means of immedi- ing of the petition, reserving to himself, ate redress, if possible, and should not until that day, to consider whether he delay the matter till next Session. The would support the Motion, which it was petitioners wanted to be allowed to take understood was to follow it, for appointing the petition presented yesterday to a court a Select Committee, stating at the same of law, and to be enabled there to prove the time that his reason for so reserving himfalsity of its allegations, and that the par- self was, that although it might be perfectly ties who presented that petition were proper to appoint such a Committee under guilty of defamation. The opportunity other circumstances, it was questionable should be afforded without delay, to those whether at this period of the Session an who considered themselves maligned to inquiry should be commenced which might come forward and prove that they were not be completed until the following Sessubstantial persons, and not indigent pau- sion. The greatest progress which such a pers, as some of them were alleged to Committee might be able to make this Sesbe.

sion might be the obtaining an er parte Mr. B. Denison said, that the parties statement of the case ; and it would be unpresenting the petition of yesterday were fair, he thought, to close the proceedings guilty of making an attempt to iinpose at that stage, without giving the other upon the House in the discharge of its parties an opportunity of rebutting it. duties. The petition was presented for Mr. Hawes was ready to move for the the purpose of staying the progress of a Committee now, if the Government would Bill before the House, and it was for the support him. House to consider whether it would take The Motion that the petition be printed up the matter, and determine whether it with the Votes was then agreed to. would submit to what appeared to him in Mr. Hawes then moved that the petithe light of a serious breach of privilege. tion presented to the House by the Deputy He had given notice of a Motion on Fri- Chairman of the Cambridge and Lincoln day next, which he hoped the House would Railway be referred to a Select Committee. accede to, to enable the parties aggrieved He hoped the House would agree to the to proceed in a legal way to vindicate their Motion, and that they would permit the character from the aspersions cast upon Members of the Conimittee to be named at them by the petition presented last night. once, so that the inquiry might be immeHe thought that it would be a scandalous diately commenced. proceeding if persons were to be permitted Mr. Warburton had seen cause, during to make such allegations to the House as the progress of the discussion, to alter were contained in that petition, and the somewhat the opinion which he entertainHouse were to refuse the parties aggrieveded at the early part of it. He agreed the means of redress.

with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that Mr. Hawes wished to explain the position if the House granted Committees of this in which he stood with respect to the Select nature, for the purpose of inquiring into Committee which it was last night his in- fraudulent subscription lists, and if these tention to have moved for that day. After inquiries were to be conducted at the pubhe had stated that he would move for such lic expense, the presenting of petitions of a Committee, the noble Lord the Member this kind, and the conducting of proceedfor Nottinghamshire (the Earl of Lincoln) ings thereupon at the public expense, stated that he would oppose the Motion. He would become the uniform course adopted thought, therefore, with the Government as the most effectual, by parties opposing opposed to it, that it would be a perfect Private Bills. If the inquiry now sought farce to move for such a Committee. He were to go on, the parties seeking it should was now ready, however, relying on the pay the expense, and not the public. He assurances which had been given him, regarded this as a mode of action adopted faithfully and diligently to prosecute the by the opponents of the Bill to stop its furinquiry, notwithstanding all the assevera- ther progress. tions which had been made by hon. Gen- Sir R. Peel doubted whether the remedy tlemen on either side of the House. sought for by the petitioners really existed.

The Earl of Lincoln rose to correct a He also doubted the policy of the House

a

giving permission to parties to prosecute public evil could result from instituting the persons presenting petitions to the House; inquiry demanded, particularly if they could or whether, by giving such permission, the get hon. Gentlemen who were ready, like House could constitute the making false the hon. Member for Lambeth, who would allegations in a petition a legal offence. probably be the chairman of the CommitHe believed that it had been ruled by tee, to sit for forty-eight consecutive hours competent tribunals, that parties present- over their labours. He was quite convinced ing petitions to the House were privi- that the hon. Gentleman did not make the leged so to do, without being liable to the offer of his services under the impression consequences now sought to be visited that it would not be accepted. If the upon the petitioners. His right hon. Committee were appointed, it might sit Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to-morrow; and if the inquiry were not said that, if they took the course proposed, immediately completed, it would have the they would constitute a precedent which opportunity of reporting to the House would be constantly appealed to in the case that it had made a certain progress, and of of Private Bills; and he was disposed to recommending that the investigation should concur, to a certain extent, in that opinion. be resumed next Session. Not seeing any At the same time, they must remember great evil that was likely to flow from such that they were now dealing with an offence a course, as a precedent, he for one was disagainst the public. There was an allega- posed to vote for the appointment of a tion made by a party, that if he had a little Committee. time he should discover numerous other Mr. Wakley was glad that he had reinstances of similar frauds, in addition to ferred the case pointedly to the right hon. those specifically alleged. A party came Gentleman, as it turned out that he had forward and alleged as a reason why they made a good selection. The question now should not read a certain Bill a third time, was, to what extent the inquiry was to prothat several instances of fraud existed in ceed, and what was to be its precise nature. the subscription list; and that he was pre- Lord John Russell agreed with the pared to establish that allegation, urging it course recommended by the right hon. as a reason why the Bill should not be read Gentleman. He thought the inquiry a third time. If he could substantiate his sought for should be made ; and, guarding allegation, he was perfectly warranted in himself against the presumption that he presenting his petition; but if he could would in future vote for a similar Motion, not, and if he had not good reason to be- unless under similar circumstances, he lieve that what he was urging was true, would support the Motion for the appointhe had in that case committed a great of- ment of a Committee. fence against that House, because the state- Sir R. H. Inglis thought that the course ments which he made might have influenced proposed by the right hon. Gentleman, them in the performance of their legislative and adopted by the noble Lord, might profunctions. It was too much, perhaps, to bably be the wise one, but it was not the hold that they were precluded from enter- course for which the petitioners in the ing into this inquiry on the score of incon- present case prayed. venience. In the present instance, they Committee appointed to examine the had not permitted the allegations made allegations of the petitioners. to constitute

an impediment to the performance of their legislative duties. FIRE AT QUEBEC-MESSAGE FROM HER They had read the Bill a third time, MAJESTY.] Colonel Dawson Damer ap. and so far the parties interested in it peared at the bar, with a Message from were not aggrieved; and the House were Her Majesty. Upon being called on by now dealing with the question merely as a the Speaker, he said that Her Majesty had Parliamentary question. If, therefore, they received the Address of that House on the did not permit the rights of private parties 1st of this month, to which he had been to be affected, but now determined to in- directed to present to the House the folvestigate the matter fully, as a Parliament- lowing Answer :ary question, such a course could not be an inconvenient one. The hon. Gentleman

“I have received with much satisfaction opposite (Mr. Wakley), whenever he found your Address, in which you assure Me that you himself in a difficulty, always said that he will make good a sum of money to be granted would leave the matter with him (Sir for the relief of the sufferers by the late calaR. Peel); and he could not see what mitous Fires at Quebec.

great

“I have given directions that a sum, not ex-, ter to which the noble Lord had referred. ceeding 20,0001. shall be applied for this pur- All that they had was the power to remoo. pose.”

strate with railway companies, and of

pointing out to them any dangerous praeMessage laid on the Table.

tices that were known to exist on their

lines. And he would take the present TRAVELLING ON Railways.] Viscount opportunity of stating, that whenever the Palmerston had a question to ask of the Board of Trade had felt it to be their duty Vice President of the Board of Trade, of to remonstrate, they had found the utmost which he had given notice. He wished to readiness, on the part of the various comstate his reason why he put this question. panies, to adopt any suggestion that they He had received a letter from a friend, who might make. The question of having had not long ago been a Member of that engines placed behind the trains, had aiHouse, and who, having observed a state- tracted the notice of the Board of Trade ment in the papers as to the practice of on several occasions; and in 1841 they employing engines at the rear of the train, addressed a number of queries to all the wrote to bim to say that he had observed railroad companies at that time in existthe same thing on the London and Bir- ence, asking them whether, under any mingham Railway. His friend said that circumstances, additional engines were he was going down the other day on the employed by them, and whether they were fast train-he begged of hon. Gentlemen placed in front or behind the trains. In to remark thatand upon the line from answer to those queries, he believed with the Weedon station to Birmingham, he one or two exceptions only, the Board observed that they had an engine in the were informed that it was necessary somerear, when they were going at a rate, it times from the state of the weather, or might be supposed, of from forty to fifty accidental circumstances, such as the exmiles an hour. His friend remonstrated traordinary weight of the train, to emplos against this, but in vain ; and in the morn- a second engine, but they uniformly em

; ing, when he complained at Birmingham, ployed it in front of the train ; and most the answer he received was that they were of the companies admitted that it was in the constant habit of doing it. If this, extremely objectionable, and highly danthen, were the general practice on railways, gerous, to use an engine behind. At the it seemed to him to be a matter of consider- same time, they stated that there were able importance; and it was desirable and particular circumstances, as in case of an essential that it should be put a stop to. incline of considerable steepness, which The questions, then, that he wished to ask it was found difficult to overcome with of the hon. Baronet the Vice President of the ordinary locomotive power, where it the Board of Trade were, whether the was more convenient to employ an engine Board of Trade had the power by law to behind; because, if it were placed in prevent these proceedings; and whether, front for a short distance, in order to surif they had not the power, the Government mount the incline, there would be conwould think it right to bring in a Bill— siderable difficulty experienced in detachto bring it in now, before this Session was ing the engine, and getting it out of the over, giving them some power in this mat- way of the train, without stopping the ter? Even still there was time to do train altogether. They added, that where this; a Bill might pass through the House a second engine was employed in a case of of Lords to-morrow and next day, and that sort, the speed of the train was nebeing brought down to that House on cessarily very much reduced, and there Friday, might pass through all its stages. was no ground for apprehending danger. A Bill of this sort, he said, was required to in the neighbourhood of Liverpool, he ungive security to Her Majesty's subjects. derstood, there were one or two steep in.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer : To clines, and that the practice of having a do it this Session, you must have an engine second engine to propel the trains up behind.

these inclines, had been adopted without Lord Palmerston : It were better that any danger arising The Board of Trade that should for once be done here, in order received a complaint from a gentleman to secure the placing of the engines before last year, relative to the practice which there in future.

prevailed on the South Eastern Railway Sir G. Clerk replied, that the Board of of employing an engine to propel the Trade had no power whatever in the mat- trains on other parts of the line than the

upon the

steep gradients. The Board of Trade cor- (Wales) Bill (Act 6 and 7 Vic., c. 77,) responded with the directors of the South through the House of Commons, in the Eastern Company on the subject. They Session of 1843 ? attempted to defend the practice; and Sir J. Graham said, that no written the Board signified that it was extremely communication had taken place between objectionable, and could only be allowed him and the Ecclesiastical Commissioners on steep inclines. He was sorry to hear upon the subject to which the question the statement made by the noble Lord, referred ; but he, being a member of the that upon the London and Birmingham Commission, did bring the matter under line, the practice had been lately intro- the consideration of the Commissioners. duced of using a second engine to propel Ai the present moment, however, on acthe trains. He presumed, however, that count of the deficiency of funds, all aug. that must have been in the case of the mentation of small livings by the Comexpress trains ; for, on referring to their mission was suspended. When he (Sir J. answers, taken in 1841, he observed that Graham) proposed that area as well as pothe directors of the London and Birming- pulation should be taken into consideration ham Railway stated that it was a prac- with reference to the augmentation of tice they never had had recourse to. Any small livings, no positive decision was Gentleman who went to Euston-square adopted by the Commissioners, but the might see two engines employed to take proposition was favourably entertained. the trains to Camden Town ; but those engines were in front, and not behind. RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.] Mr. WaddingThe Board of Trade had always said, that ton wished to ask the hon. Gentleman the it was extremely dangerous, and, therefore, Vice President of the Board of Trade, highly objectionable, to place the engines whether he had received any information behind; and they had endeavoured, as relative to the serious accident which yesfar as they had power, to prevent it. It terday occurred on the Eastern Counties might be expedient, if the practice were Railway. He understood that the direcbecoming more general, that Parliament tors had withheld all information should interfere early in the next Session ; subject; but he had visited the spot imbut it was utterly impossible to do what mediately after the accident took place, the noble Lord proposed, namely, pass a and a frightful accident it proved to be. short Bill through its various stages, in Not only was it attended with the death both Houses of Parliament, in the present of a stoker, but another man had his leg Session. He apprehended that, consider- broken, and a third he saw led away to ing the difference of opinion which pre- the hospital in a most alarming state. vailed in this House, with regard to in- Mr. Ward said, that the hon. Baronet vesting the Board of Trade with additional (Sir G. Clerk) could scarcely yet have repowers, any Bill, having that object in ceived the account of the accident at the view, would give rise to very considerable Board of Trade; and perhaps the House discussion, and occupy some time in passing would allow him to state the particulars through the House. He could assure the of the unhappy occurrence. If it were to noble Lord, that the Board of Trade would be ascribed to the causes which he had devote their best attention to the subject, heard alleged, he did not see how any hu. in order to remedy the evil complained of. man foresight or precaution could have Subject at an end.

averted the consequences.

It appeared

that the train left London at eleven o'clock AUGMENTATION OF SMALL Livings.] yesterday forenoon, and as since the Viscount Clive asked the right hon. Baro- opening of the new line to Cambridge the net the Secretary of State for the Home board of directors had taken the precauDepartment, whether any communication tion of desiring the superintendent of the had taken place between the right hon. locomotive department to go as far as Baronet and the Ecclesiastical Commis. Cambridge with the quick train, to see sioners, as to the formation by them of a that the men properly worked the engines, scale for augmenting small livings, in the superintendent was accordingly on the which area shall be taken into considera- engine yesterday, and was the only one of tion as well as population; also, when such the survivors who could give an account of scale is likely to come into operation, as the occurrence. He preserved the whole proposed by the right hon. Baronet during of his recollection, and was under examithe progress of the Cathedral Churches nation 10-day. He stated that the engine VOL. LXXXII. {

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