1363 London and York Railway {COMMONS} – Fictitious Signatures. 1364 the London and York Railway could be the Bill which they were then called upon impugned, let the matter be sifted in the to read a third time, had been carried House of Lords. Three or four days only through all its stages under a fraudulent of the Session remained, so that it was pretence. Of course, he did not mean to utterly impossible to make an inquiry in say for a moment that the hon. Member this House. He had to inform the hon. for Yorkshire was any party to the fraud; Member, that is consequence of the notice but fraud was alleged, and it was not at. he had given of this Motion, the shares tempted to be denied. [Mr. Denison disof one line had risen, and the shares of sented.] It was all very well to shake the the other had fallen, so that his public head, but would they go before a Comvirtue might be made an instrument in mittee and prove that the allegations were the hands of opposing parties. He should false? The gigantic frauds which had vote against the Motion, in the expecta- been practised in railways was something tion that there would be a most searching new-it had come upon them like a inquiry in the House of Lords. thunder-clap. With, perhaps, some halfMr. Darby stated, that the original dozen exceptions, the whole House were share list was before the Committee; that dabblers in railway shares. You could every word of ihe deed was discussed and not meet a man but he was full of the commented upon, and yet not a hint was price of shares; nay, you could not meet thrown out against the responsibility of even a woman in society, who was not the shareholders. learned in the value of scrip. It was alPetition to be printed. together a monstrous phenomenon. The Mr. B. Denison then moved that the House had now some grounds to go upon. London and York Railway Bill be read a Let them fully inquire into the allegations Third Time, of the petitioners, and if they were found Mr. Hawes would take that opportunity true let them take steps to put an end to the of answering a question which had been monstrous system altogether. Suppose pul to him by the hon. Gentleman. Be- they were to postpone the Bill; it might fore the Committee of the House of Lords be inconvenient to some parties, but where it had been said that the subscription list was the harm to the public if the Bill of the London and York Company was should be delayed until next Session ? It unimpeachable, and it was only on Thurs. was asserted that the parties promoting day last that the petitioner had been made the Bill bad practised fraud upon the aware that such was not the fact, and he House, yet the House was about to be was still pursuing his inquiries. He fully asked to suspend the Standing Orders, in believed that the Standing Orders’ Com- order that it should be enabled to pass mittee were afforded no opportunity of it was monstrous. He moved that the looking into the matter--all the companies third reading of the Bill be postponed had joined in a compromise so that each for three months. should abstain from impeaching the sub- Mr. W. Patten would vote for the third scription list of the oiher. The parties reading of the Bill, because he consiwho waited upon him were respectable, dered that it would be unjust to throw it and he believed that the allegations they over at that late period of the Session. had made were true, and, as far as he was A Committee had sal eighty days, he beconcerned, he would assist them in sifting lieved, upon the Bill; they had fully in. the matter to the bottom. vestigated it, and their labours ought not Mr. Roebuck would move that the Bill now to be thrown aside. If the House be read a third time on that day three should agree to do so, he certainly would months, and he did so on the ground that never serve upon a railway committee, exthe House bad determined that certain cept upon compulsion. He really did not things should be done before a Railway know what measures it was in the power of Bill should be proceeded in-that a sub- the House to take to prevent such frauds, scription list should be put in, and that it if they had not been successful in the case should be a bona fide one. If the Stand- of the London and York line, with which ing Orders were of no use, let them be he was wholly unconnected. But, even abrogated; but so long as they formed if the allegations of the petition were true part and parcel of the orders of House, -if the whole 600,0001. had been fraudu. let them form part of the proceedings on lently subscribed for, still there would rethese Bills. Ii was directly asserted that main a sufficient subscription list to answer all the requirements of the Standing | ceived the opinions of several distinguished Orders. Under all the circumstances, he engineers Mr. Rendel, Mr. George would vote for the third reading of the Rennie, Mr. Payne, Mr. Wm. Cubitt, and, Bill. These by letter, of Sir John Rennie. gentlemen all concurred in the opinion that, for engineering and architectural purposes, it was desirable that the present structure should be removed. Two gentlemen gave a contrary opinion. Mr. Walker, the architect, and Mr. Cubit, the contractor for the repair of the bridge. The Com Mr. Aglionby: The House and the country were very much deceived if they thought that the Standing Orders of the House afforded any sufficient protection against frauds of the description pointed out in the petition. When Bills went before the Committee upon petitions, the agents mutually agreed to wave all dis-mittee did not concur in the opinion of pute upon the subscription lists, well knowing that any inquiry would most probably be fatal to all the Bills. He believed that frauds which had been practised upon the House during the present Session had been very flagrant, and he was most anxious that they should be able to find some mode of checking them. respect to what had fallen from the hon. Member for Bath, he trusted there were many more than six hon. Members who were not tainted with the railway mania; for himself he had no connexion with any railway whatever, nor would he ever have, while the House chose to place him in the responsible and judicial situation of a Member of the Standing Orders' Committee. Un the five gentlemen whose names he had enumerated; and the Commissioners of Westminster Bridge proceeded, at their own expense, to make repairs which, according to the evidence, could not place the bridge in an effective condition. der these circumstances the House sepathe Committee concurring rated last In in the view of the minority; but, in the course of the winter, additional injuries occurred to the bridge, which rendered its therefore wished to ask the Government, state still more unsatisfactory, and he in the person of his right hon. Friend the First Minister, whether the subject had been already under the consideration of the Government, and what were their intentions with respect to the continuance which were ineffectual for the complete of repairs at an enormous expense, and restoration of the structure; or whether they contemplated the pulling down of the bridge and rebuilding it, either at the present spot, or at the other side of the new Palace of Westminster? year, Mr. Ward said, that he considered it highly desirable that men of known honour, integrity, and capacity, should be openly and avowedly interested in enterprises from which the public derived so much benefit as from railways. He had himself been a railway director for ten years; and so long as he saw those concerns with which he was connected conducted with propriety, he should not be ashamed to avow his participation in them. Amendment withdrawn. Bill was read a third time and passed. Sir R. Peel, in answer to the question of his hon. Friend, begged to remind the House that a Committee had been appointed last Session to inquire into the state of Westminster Bridge, and he believed that the Committee, by a small majority, decided, upon a review of the whole of the evidence, there was no case upon WESTMINSTER BRIDGE.] Sir R. Inglis, which to recommend the pulling down of seeing his right hon. Friend the First the bridge, and building a new one. The Lord of the Treasury in his place, begged facts he believed to be these-that the to be allowed to put a question to him Commissioners for superintending the relative to the state of Westminster Bridge, bridge, were in possession of certain and the intention of Her Majesty's Go- estates, which, if converted into capital, vernment with respect to it. In order to would represent a sum of 172,000l. Two make his question intelligible, perhaps the estimates for rebuilding the bridge had House would indulge him with permission been laid before the Committee, one from to say a few words by way of preliminary Mr. Walker, and the other from Mr. explanation. Gentlemen would, perhaps, Rennie; the one stating the amount at recollect that last year a Committee was 260,000l., and the other at 350,000l., inappointed to inquire into the condition of dependent of the approaches. He underthe bridge. They took evidence upon stood that since the Repo:t of the Comit, and, amongst other testimony, re-mittee, the Commissioners who had the ther Judge, Mr. Justice Erle, who was on the same circuit with him, and considering the gravity of the question and all the circumstances of the case, besides the fact that the lives of seven persons were at stake, he (Mr. Baron Platt) had determined to reserve the point of law, which had been raised on the trial, for the consideration of the other Judges. Upon this being communicated to the Government, a respite was at once issued. charge of the bridge had taken fresh evidence, and had called for reports from the engineers and others immediately connected with the bridge, Mr. Walker and Mr. Cubitt, and had also received the opinions of Mr. Rennie and Mr. Rendel, and other independent engineers. These opinions had been sent to the Board of Treasury; but having been so sent only within the last three days, it had been impossible to give them the consideration which so important a subject required; and he was only enabled to state to his hon. NEW ZEALAND.] Mr. P. Howard Friend, that as soon as the labours of that asked, whether any, and what, arrangeHouse were brought to a close, the recent ments had been made by the Governcommunication from the Commissioners to ment with the New Zealand Company, the Board of Treasury should receive due and whether the Government would inattention. He was not prepared at pre-form the House more generally what had sent to go further, or to state that the Government thought that the rebuilding the bridge, at an expense of 350,000l., would be consistent with a due regard for the interests of the public. been done with respect to the Colony itself? It was not desirable that the prorogation should take place without some statement being made public as to what had been done. Mr. G. W. Hope regretted that the MURDER OF MR. PALMER, OF THE hon. Gentleman had not mentioned to WASP.] Mr. Christie rose for the purpose him before coming down to the House of calling the attention of the right hon. that he was about to put the question, Gentleman the Home Secretary, to the as he (Mr. G. W. Hope) would then case of the seven foreigners who were re-have been able to give him more than a cently tried at the Exeter assizes, for the murder of Mr. Thoma Palmer, a mid shipman, belonging to Her Majesty's ship the Wasp, and who, the hon. Member said, general answer. All he could say at Company had made fresh proposals to present was, that the New Zealand the noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Office; that he himself (Mr. G. W. Hope) had seen deputations from the Company two or three times on those proposals; they had also seen a third he understood were to be executed on Friday next. On the trial of these men several points were raised by counsel on their behalf, and one of these was quite a new one, in respect of which counsel on neither side was prepared with any autho-person at the Colonial Office on the sub rity. The Judge (Mr. Baron Platt) over- preroga Sir J. Graham admitted that the question put by the hon. Gentleman was a most important one. He begged to state in reply that he had that morning heard from Mr. Baron Platt, who informed him that, after full consultation with his bro ject; and that those proposals were still under the consideration of the Colonial Office. THE SOUTH-EASTERN RAILWAY COMPANY.] Viscount Palmerston said: On behalf of the South-Eastern Railway Company, I beg to offer a few words in explanation of what fell from me on the other evening. I had been informed that the reason why the engines used on that line were too weak to perform their duty, which made it necessary to have an additional engine to propel each train behind, was mistaken economy on the part of the directors of the Company. But I have since been waited on by a deputation of the directors of the Company, and they have assured me that the reason was not a mistaken economy, but a mistaken calculation, and that the persons who were directors at the time to which I referred are not directors now. They further said, that in October last, on finding that their engines were too weak, they gave directions for the construction of fresh engines. I told them that I should make this explanation to the House of Commons; but at the same time I told them I thought it was my duty to say that their explanation did not, in my opinion, afford a justification of their conduct; but that if their engines were too weak, they ought to have proportioned their trains to the strength of their engines, instead of putting two engines, one before and one behind. I am sorry to add, that from their own show. ing, it appears that they still resort to this dangerous practice of putting two engines to propel one train; for they assure me that it is only done on a part of the road which is very steep; and, whenever the measure is adopted, the train is not allowed to go at more than ten or twelve, or from that to fifteen miles an hour. Now, I am not an engineer, but it does appear to me that that rate is too fast under such circumstances. I think that if there is a necessity for two engines, they ought to be placed both before the train, and not one before and the other after the train; but that if a pushing or a propelling engine is attached behind, the rate of travelling ought not to be more than four miles an hour. THE CASE OF WILLIAM MAYS.] Mr. Tufnell asked whether William Mays, who had been convicted, at the Northampton Lent Assizes, of an assault, with intent to do grievous bodily harm to a gamekeeper, was to be pardoned or not? Sir J. Graham said, it was not by any means convenient that he, as Secretary of State, should be called upon to state the advice which he was prepared to offer to the Sovereign with respect to the exercise of the Royal prerogative; but he would say, in reply to the hon. Gentleman's question, that the prisoner William Mays was tried and convicted before Lord Chief Justice Tindal, at the last Spring Assizes, and by him sentenced to fifteen years' transportation. That period, with the concurrence and by the advice of Lord Chief Justice Tindal, he (Sir J. Graham) had commuted to seven years, and he had further ordered the prisoner to be detained until the Summer Assizes, when certain other parties who were inculpated for having taken part in the same transaction on which Mays was found guilty, would be tried also. Those parties were tried, but were not convicted. Circumstances, however, came out at their trial that confirmed the impression that had been entertained of the innocence of Mays of the offence of which the jury had found him guilty. The Lord Chief Baron, before whom these parties had been tried, had been so good as to send him his notes of the trial, and he had sent them to Lord Chief Justice Tindal, stating that if he thought the case with this additional light was a satisfactory oue, he should advise Her Majesty to grant a free pardon to the convict Mays. He was only waiting for an answer from the learned Judge. THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.] The Earl of Lincoln said, in answer to the question from Mr. Moffatt, it was perfectly true that the anticipations he had entertained and expressed in answer to a question from the hon. Member for Montrose in 1842, to the effect that the new Houses would be ready by this time, had been disappointed; but he begged to remind the House that no great public building, either in this country or any other, had ever made so rapid a progress as the new Houses had done; and when attacks were made upon the architect, he could answer for that gentleman that the attacks made upon him some time ago had rendered him so anxious, that for two months he was obliged to retire from London in order to recruit his health, so keenly did he feel the imputations that had been thrown upon his personal honour in the accusations that had been made against him of not having kept his word. The House of Lords, there was no doubt, would be in a fit state for the occupation of their Lordships at the commencement of the Session of 1847. The House of Commons could be prepared by that time, but not without considerable difficulty, and he was not prepared to say that it would be advisable for the House to insist on its being ready so soon. But the central hall and other parts of the building necessary for the communication between the two Houses, would not be ready by then; and, therefore it would be for the House next Session to consider what it would be best to do. The committee-rooms would be prepared by the commencement of the Session of 1847. THE BRAZILS.] Mr. M. Gibson said, I proscribed the staple produce of the Brahe could not allow that opportunity, which zils, and placed it in a different position might be the last he should have this Ses- from the same produce of other foreign sion, to pass without pressing on the at- countries, he could not tell, but it aptention of the Government one or two peared to him that we did stand in a very matters which had already been mentioned unfortunate position with the Brazils; that several times this Session in that House, the interests of the commercial classes were connected with the commercial interests in a state of jeopardy, and that Her Maof this country. The first was, the position jesty's Government had not been fortuin which Englishmen now resident in the nate in their negotiations with that Empire. Brazils were placed. He wished to re- Another question with reference to the mind the right hon. Gentleman at the same subject which he wished to press head of the Government, that the privi- on the attention of the Government was leges which British subjects resident in the the differential duty. The right hon. Brazils had enjoyed with reference to the Gentleman the Member for Taunton, the disposal of their property by will, and other evening, put a question to the right some other personal rights of great im- hon. Baronet, and asked, whether it was portance, and which expired with the true that the Brazilian Government had Treaty of November, 1844, had not, al- imposed an additional 20 or 30 per cent. though they were enjoyed by the subjects on the rate of duty now leviable under of other foreign countries resident in Bra- the general tariff, on the cotton manufaczil, been restored to them. He would, tures, the produce of Great Britain only; therefore, press particularly on the atten- and the right hon. Baronet answered that tion of the right hon. Gentleman, the he had received no intelligence that such great importance of endeavouring to pro- was the fact. But he (Mr. Gibson) becure, that Englishmen resident in the lieved that intelligence which might be Brazils might at least be in as good a po- relied on had arrived by the last mail, sition as the subjects of any Foreign State that the Brazilian Government had imwhatever. At the same time, he did not posed a discriminating duty of 20 or 30 complain that Englishmen were made per cent. on British cotton manufactures subject to Brazilian law. The hon. Mem- over and above the duty upon the cotber for Salford and himself had received ton manufactures of any other country; many pressing communications on this and that they would continue that adsubject-one of vital importance to the ditional duty so long as England conconstituency he represented, as many in tinued to proscribe their sugar. He that constituency had large property in had seen that stated in a Liverpool pathe Brazils; and he understood that in per of the 23rd of July last. He did not case of the death of a partner in this coun- ask the Government for any assurance try in any of those houses in that country, or pledge for the future; but he should his goods would be taken possession of not be doing his duty to his constituents, by the Brazilian authorities, and would if he had allowed that opportunity to be administered by them, and that large pass without pressing such important matfees, amounting to confiscation of the ters on the attention of the Government. property, would be exacted. It was un- If the deficiency of labour in the West derstood that an assurance had been given Indies were urged as the ground of mothat those privileges would be restored to nopoly in their favour, then he wished to British subjects, and he believed that Lord ask of the Government what steps had Aberdeen was under the impression that been taken to bring about the immigration a Treaty or arrangement had been come of labour into the West Indian Colonies? to with the Brazilian Government that He observed, that the Colonial AssemBritish subjects should be placed in the blies had charged their revenue with a same position as the subjects of France certain amount to pay the interest upon a and other foreign countries in reference loan, which it was understood the noble to those personal rights. The last mails, Lord the Secretary for the Colonies bad however, did not bring intelligence that promised the Colonial Governors should any such negotiation was concluded; and, be raised on the security of the Colonial whether it could be attributed to the un-evenue, backed also by the guarantee of fortunate policy of this country with re- the Home Government. Perhaps the hon. spect to sugar-to the fact that we had Gentleman the Under Secretary for the |