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notoriety in the case out of which this, conduct of the sheriff. He would suggest Bill had arisen — he meant Mr. Pierce that copies of the lists and hooks should be Mahony. He thought, as far as his judg- kept in more than one place, to guard ment went, that the provisions of the Bill against alterations being made in them. would be effectual for the object sought'; There was another point he wished to and the only provision he suggested was advert to. He did not see why this this : according to the present law the col- should not be made a general measure lectors were authorized, at the public ex- for the whole Empire. pense, to print and circulate a certain num


The Lord Chancellor considered that ber of their lists; but this was not com- sufficient security was afforded against any pulsory, it was only permissive. What alteration in the lists, by requiring the Mr. Mahony required was, that the col. magistrates to sign them. With respect to lectors should be required to print their what had been said by his noble and lists. He (the Lord Chancellor) was ready learned Friend respecting the propriety of to adopt that suggestion when the Bill making the measure general, he had to went into Committee.

intimate the intention of the Government Lord Campbell thought the Bill of his to introduce a measure for England, framed noble and learned Friend was calculated to in a corresponding spirit. be effectual for the purpose he desired. At Bill read 24. the same time, he was of opinion, that it did not go far enough for all the purposes RailwAYS-Coasting Trade.] The that it was desirable should be effected. It Marquess of Londonderry called the attendid not reach the point of law relating to tion of the Government to the danger in the challenge of the array. Their Lord which the coasting trade of the country ships were aware that it was a privilege was placed by the increase of railways, given by the Common Law of England to a more particularly in the coal trade of the party put on his trial that he might challenge north, and hoped the subject would receive the array of the jury; but the Judges were the earnest consideration of the Governof opinion that the right ofchallenge could ment. The noble Marquess moved for only be exercised in the case where unin- certain Returns connected with the subdifferency or misconduct of the sheriff ject. could be alleged. Lord Denman, on the The Earl of Dalhousie thought the noble contrary, was of opinion, and he (Lord Marquess had overrated the danger. The Campbell) concurred with him, that the charge for coals per railway would be 15s. law was different from what the majority a ton, irrespective of the charges in the of the Judges had laid it down. It ap- port of London, while by sea it was only peared to him (Lord Campbell) that a 75. There appeared to be no present danmore general enactment was necessary to ger of railways competing with the coastmeet this point ; for there were many ing trade. other cases in which parties might fairly Lord Hatherton thought the apprehenchallenge the array besides those of unin- sions of the noble Marquess were not altodifferency or misconduct on the part of the gether unfounded. In the Great North sheriff,

of England Railway many of the directors The Lord Chancellor said, that the were coal owners, and they had made a challenge to the array could only arise contract to supply their coals from Durham where there was an error between the lists to York at three farthings a ton up to a signed by the magistrates and the Jurors' given quantity, and beyond that at a farBook; and he thought sufficient precau- thing a ton. The practical result had tion had been adopted to prevent any such been that coals had been delivered from error. He was, however, willing to meet Durham to York at five-eighths of a penny any particular case in which an error per ton. He had no doubt that in time coals might have occurred, which should not would be delivered from the midland counnecessarily challenge the whole jury list for ties at all the great marts of consumption the assizes.

per railway at a halfpenny a ton per mile. Lord Campbell would strictly confine He fully agreed that the support of the himself to a challenge of the array in par-coasting trade was a great national object, ticular cases.

to which much ought to be sacrificed. Lord Denman thought it possible that Lord Ashburton said that the coasting there might be error in the lists, besides trade, which was one of the vital interests that arising from unindifferency or mism of the country, ought not to be sacrificed

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to any abstract notions of political eco., ed, there must necessarily be an increase in nomy.

the Estimates. He had no wish to see Lord Brougham said, that no one felt coals dear; but he trusted the Government more deeply than he the necessity of sup- would look seriously at the question with porting the maritime defensive strength of a view to keep up our maritime superiority. the country; but he was for supporting it The Earl of Haddinglon said, a greater by the true and legitimate mode of increas- blow could not be struck at our naval ing the commerce of the country, by the power than by the loss of the great purreinoval of its restrictions, by removing the sery of seamen offered by the coal trade, fetters which bound up trade, and by giv- from any considerable diminution of the ing every possible facility to the employ- number of ships engaged in the carriage ment of capital, and by these means increase of coals from the north of England. It the already vast amount of the commercial would be satisfactory to their Lordships to resources of England. The coasting trade know, that the coasting trade was now in was a most valuable branch of those re- the most vigorous condition, and increasing sources, and the nursery of our seamen. rather than diminishing. The general In estimating the state of the coasting shipping of the country was also on the trade, his noble Friend opposite totally increase. The opening of the trade in the forgot the increase of the coal mines, con- interior of the country was not at all likely sequent on the increase of the metropolis ; to diminish the coasting trade. On the in the last sixty or seventy years the con contrary, the cheapness that would be so sumption of coals had been doubled. He caused, would create a greatly extended totally dissented from the position that they market; and if coals could be brought were bound to discourage the inland trade from the north to the other parts of the for the sake of encouraging any other coast more cheaply than by railway, the debranch of commerce.

mand would be supplied from that quarter. Lord Stanley stated, with reference to But of course the interior could be supthe number of ships and men engaged in plied direct by railway more cheaply than the whale fishery, that the decrease which if they were brought round by sea to some had taken place was not attributable to the part of the coast, and then sent overland. reduction of duty on foreign whale oil. It Lord Kinnaird said, the quality of the was true that a great decrease had taken Newcastle coals was superior to all the inplace between 1832 and 1842; but this land coal; and they always commanded a was concurrently with the maintenance preference. The noble Marquess need be of the highly protective and almost pro- under no apprehension on that account; hibitory duty of 261. 10s. per tun on fo- but he would recommend the noble Mar. reign oil.

In 1832, the price of whale quess to break up the monopoly at the coal oil in this country was 611. per tun; in pits. At the time of his visit to the dis1840, it had risen to 1041. ; in 1832, 81 trict, coals were being shipped to France at ships, of 26,393 tons, and employing 3,645 2s., which, when sent to Dundee, were men, were engaged in the northern whale charged 6s. The coal owners were bound fishery ; in 1842, the duty remaining the by regulation to produce only a certain same, the number had fallen to 18 ships, quantity. of 5,400 tons, and employing only 810 Lord Wharncliffe thought the monopoly men altogether. But since the reduction was now entirely broken up, and that the of the duty on the foreign article, on the trade was perfectly free. contrary, a great increase in the trade had The Marquess of Londonderry did not taken place ; for, since 1842 to the pre- regret that he had brought forward this sent time, the number of ships had arisen Motion; his sole object in doing which from 18 to 32, the tonnage from 5,400 to was to call their Lordships' attention to 8,955, and the number of men employed the importance of maintaining the coasting from 800 to 1,440.

trade. There could be no doubt that the Lord Colchester called the attention of coal owners would prefer to send their coals the Government to the great importance to London by land carriage, if they found of maintaining the coasting trade, and par- it the cheaper mode of conveyance. With ticularly the sea-borne coal trade; because regard to what was called the monopoly, the seamen who wer ought up in it, an immense number of new collieries had were formed in the very best school of lately been brought into the field to extend their profession ; and it was almost the the supply, owing to railroads and other only nursery left. If it should be destroy- causes, which had lowered the price in

London considerably ; the new concerns, venting that company from possessing the not having so heavy rents to pay, or so monopoly they would otherwise have engreat capital invested. The price of a joyed in the iron districts. ton of coals at the mouth of the pit was The Marquess of Clanricarde said, it 7s. 6d., while the freight to London con- was worth while, as a matter of curiosity, sumed an equal sum, and the difference to refer to the prospectus originally issued between 15s. and 26s., the price at which by the London and Birmingham Company, they were delivered to the consumer, went and the promises they then made, and to to pay the port dues and corporation taxes compare them with the prices charged by of London. He thought it

He thought it a great hard that company during part of the last and ship that the individual coal owners the preceding year. It would then be should only have one-third of the price ; evident that no company had ever made and the fact was, that the best coals were such an attempt to deal unfairly by the sold in London at a loss.

public ; for at the very tiine they raised The Duke of Wellington would say only their charges to a most unjustifiable height, one word in favour of a corporation with their dividends were very great, and the which he felt it an honour to be connected, price of the stock was immensely high. It he meant that of the Trinity House. He was only because the attention of the entreated their Lordships, in their resolu- country was called to the subject, and betion to maintain the coasting trade, not to cause threats were held out that means lose sight of the lights on the coast of Eng. would be taken to compel them to lower land, and of their immense importance to their charges, that those charges were renavigation.

duced. Returns ordered.

Lord Brougham did not think it had

been shown that the Committee of the OXTORD, WORCESTER, AND WOLVER- House of Commons had not been duped. HAMPTON Railway.] Lord Brougham He knew that two instances had lately ocpresented a petition from various parties curred in which the grossest frauds had praying to be heard by counsel against the been practised on Committees of the House Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton of Commons. In one case, a gentleman Railway.

named Whateley, a barrister, who intended Lord Redesdale said, he would take this to oppose the Bill, withdrew his opposition opportunity of stating that a gross fraud had on the company promising to introduce a been practised upon the public by the Ox. clause which would prevent the line of ford and Worcester Company, which had railway from passing close to his house ; adopted the broad gauge. When canvass- but when the Bill was passed, no such ing the public, they offered to carry ironclause had been inserted." Another simiore at a penny per mile; but when they lar case had also occurred. drove the rival line out of the field, they Lord Redesdale was understood to say, raised the charge to three-halfpence per that the London and Birmingham Company mile.

had never raised their rate of charges, exLord Hatherton did not think it likely cept in the case of the mail trains. The that the Committee of the House of Com- petition presented by the noble and learned mons could have been duped in the man- Lord could be referred to the Committee, ner the noble Lord seemed to suppose; and who would inquire into the matter. he believed that the ironmasters of Staf. After a few words in explanation from fordshire were much too sharp in looking Lord Hatherton and Lord Redesdale, after their own interests to allow any mea- The Duke of Richmond said, he considsure to be carried which might be preju- ered it most desirable that Parliament dicial to those interests. It was required should come to some understanding as to. that a maximum toll clause should be in the tolls to be charged by railway compa

a serted in all Railway Bills; but he be- nies. Scarcely two Bills had been introlieved nine-tenths of the manufacturers duced into Parliament in which it was were very well satisfied with the low rate proposed to charge similar rates of toll. of charges which had hitherto been levied It appeared to him that the best mode of upon coal and iron. He believed that the remedying the difficulty would be to pass rejection by the other House of Parlia- an Act providing that they would revise ment of a line of railway projected by the rate of tolls charged by railway comthe

and Birmingham Companies every five years. That step, in his pany had had the good effect of pre- opinion, would prevent the injurious re

sults of monopoly, and secure the public, 1501. a year. What could be easier than interests; but, as one of the selected Mem- to say to parties who brought in Railway bers, he wished to guard himself against Bills, “ If you wish to carry this Bill, we being supposed to express any opinion on think justice requires that you should pay this or any other Railway Bill which came the costs of parties who oppose it ?" He before that House,

would have no objection to allow the ReSubject at an end.

solution to stand over until Monday, in

order that noble Lords might have time to RAILWAY AND OTHER Bills.] Order consider the subject. He believed that of the Day for resuming the Adjourned this Resolution would afford great protecDebate on the 3rd Resolution (see June 3) tion to private individuals; for, if railway read.

projectors were aware that by the StandLord Brougham then proposed the Third ing Orders of that House they might have Resolution affecting the Standing Orders to pay the expenses of opposition, they of their Lordships' House which he had would be disarmed of that power which submitted to the House yesterday, and the they at present exercised with the utmost consideration of which had been postponed possible oppression. The companies freuntil to-day. The noble and learned Lord quently said, "We have a heavy purseread the Resolution.

oppose us if you dare ;" but this Resolution, The Earl of Wicklow said, he objected to if adopted, would prevent them from using this Resolution, the effect of which, in his those threats to deter their opponents opinion, would be to induce the opponents from proceeding. of railroad projects to defer their opposi- The following Amendments were then tion until the Bills came into their Lord- moved :ships' House, under the expectation that they would then obtain their costs. He “ To add after the Word Parties'the followbelieved that this Resolution would not ing words -- incurred in the Proceedings before only prevent opposition to railway schemes this House, or its Committee;' and at the End in the other House, but that it would have "That where any Committee has directed Ex

of the said Resolution the following Wordsthe effect of bringing that opposition exclusively into their Lordships' House, and report such Direction to the House specially,

pences to be paid by any such Party, it shall eventually a collision might ensue between with the Circumstances inducing them so io the two Houses. Supposing a railway direct." company refused to pay costs under this Resolution, had the House the power of levy.

Debate on Resolution so amended, ad. ing them? They had not. They might journed to Monday. recommend the company to pay costs, and in the event of non-compliance they might HOUSE OF COMMONS, refuse to pass their Bill; but he thought

Friday, July 4, 1845. such a course on the part of the House

MINUTES.) would be most unfair, for if a Committee

Public. -1° Borough and Watch

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Rates; Deodands Abolition (No. 2); Joint Stock Comof the House considered the project advan- panies ; Schoolmasters (Scotland). tageous to the country generally, it would 34. and passed : --Foreign Lotteries.

Private.-10. Manchester and Leeds Railway (No. 2): be most unjust to the community to reject

Derby Court (Westminster), it on such grourds.

Reported.-- Lady's Island and Tacumshin Embankment; The Duke of Richmond : If the Com- Brighton and Chichester Railway (Portsmouth Extenmittee recommend costs to be paid to cer

sion); Guildford, Chichester, and Portsmouth Railway i

· Direct London and Portsmouth Railway. tain opposing parties, what so easy as to 3o. and passed :- London and South Western Railway put a clause in the Bill for that purpose ? (No. 1); Erewash Valley Railway (No. 2) ; Norwich and Lord Brougham said, the House had no

Brandon Railway Deviation, and Diss and Dereham

Branches; Glasgow Junction Railway. power of levying money; but in the case PETITIONS PRESENTED., By Mr. B. Denison, from several of their judicial proceedings, they were in places, against Grant to Maynooth College. --By Viscount the constant habit of ordering parties to

Clive from a great number of places, against Union of St.

A saph and Bangor.-By Mr. Boyd, from Stockholders pay costs. If a person applied to that and others of Berrima, New South Wales, for Repeal of House for a divorce from his wife, the certain Acts relating to that Colony.-By Mr. Master

man, from William Thompson, Alderman of the City of House might require him to allow her an

London, and President of Christ's Hospital, against the annuity. He remembered a case in which

Charitable Trusts Bill.By Viscount Clive, from several a person ng for a divorce had offered to places, for Establishment of County Courts.-By several allow his wife 501. a year ; but the House

Hon. Members, froin a great number of places, in favour

of the Ten Hours Systen in Factories.-By Mr. Cripps, refused ti pass the Bill unless he allowed and Mr. Hume, from several places, for Alteration of


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Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Lunatics Bill.--By Mr. S. : petition, when so many other mcans of Crawford, and Lord Henniker, from several places, against

He considered the Parochial Settlement Bill.-- By Mr. Bright, from identification must exist. Inhabitants of Lerwick, Zetland, for Diminishing the the prayer of the petition unprecedented, Number of Public Houses.

and though the House would never stand

in the way of public justice, it would not OFFICERS OF THE House.] Mr. Baine consent that its officers should be required presented, a petition from two persons of to attend a court of law on so frivolous a the name of Scoti, praying that ihe flouse ground. would give leave to Mr. Paskin and three Motion negatived. other officers of the House to atlend as witnesses in the Common Pleas, in an MESSAGE FROM THE CROWN--Railaction brought by Messrs. Scott against WAY ADDRESS.] Colonel Dawson Damer the bon. C. F. Berkeley.

appeared at the bar, and stated that, in Mr. Bernal said, that the circumstances reply to an Address which had been preout of which this trial and petition arose sented to Her Majesty, ine was commanded were these :- In the year 1837 or 1838 an to present the following Answer :application was made !o the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Mr. C. Berkeley) to be

" I have received your Address upon the coine a director in the Steam Navigation subject of securing an uniformity of Gauge for Company to India by the Cape of Good Railways in Great Britain. Hope. "That offer Mr. Berkeley declined, “My consideration shall be given to the and he heard no more of it for a time; matter to which your Address refers." but at length it came to his knowledge that a private Bill had passed through the AFFRAY AT BALLINI ASSIG.] In reHouse, and that his Daine had been in- ply to a question from Mr. Bouverie, serted in it as a director, in (as we under- Sir T. Fremantle said, that he had restood) the same company; but his hon. ceived an account of the affray at BallinFriend had assured him (Mr. Bernal) that hassis, in the neighbourhood of Cork. It such a proceeding was without his sanc- appeared that a number of persons had tiou or knowledge. The speculation did assembled on the evening of a fair, and not succeed, and not long after an action that the affray was caused by an attempt was brought against his bon. Friend and 10 rescue a man who had been taken into others for a sum of 30,0001., the expense custody by the police. He had not reof building a ship for the company at ceived the accounts in detail, but he reBeyrout. Under these circumstances he greited to say that the circumstances, as hoped the House would reject the prayer they appeared in the public papers, were of the petition, by negativing the Motion. in the main correct. Several lives had

Mr. C. Berkeley was quite willing that been lost. As to whether the police were the Motion should be carried, as far as he deserving of blame or not, he could not was personally concerned, but positively give an opinion until he bad received denied that his name had been inserted in further inforination. From ibat which he the Bill with his approbation.

had already received, it would appear that Mr. Warburton did not think the they were nor blameable ; for when they House would be justified in stopping the fired at the people he was given to underprogress of a cause merely because an stand that they did it

order to preserve hon. Member was concerned in it as a de. their own lives. As he had before said, fendant. He imagined that the hon. an attempt was made to rescue a prisoner, Member would be anxious that the whole who was removed to a place of confinemaiter should be fully investigated. ment, the doors and windows of which

Mr. C. Berkeley added that he had no were broken, and the roof was nearly dewish to stand in the way of the most molished, when the police were driven to searching inquiry. His name had been the necessity of firing on the people. used without any authority from him. Mr. Sheil asked if any inquiry had been

Mr. Hume urged that whatever was directed to be made into this unfortunate usually done in such cases, ought to be transaction? done in this case.

Sir T. Fremantle said, that the coroner's Sir G. Clerk did see how the offi. inquest was to take place, and great care cers of the House could be wanted to i would be taken that it should be cuna identify a Member, its was alleged in the 'ducted with all the funnies.

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