to any abstract notions of political eco., ed, there must necessarily be an increase in nomy.

the Estimates. He had no wish to see Lord Brougham said, that no one felt coals dear; but he trusted the Government more deeply than he the necessity of sup- would look seriously at the question with porting the maritime defensive strength of a view to keep up our maritime superiority. the country; but he was for supporting it The Earl of Haddinglon said, a greater by the true and legitimate mode of increas- blow could not be struck at our naval ing the commerce of the country, by the power than by the loss of the great purreinoval of its restrictions, by removing the sery of seamen offered by the coal trade, fetters which bound up trade, and by giv- from any considerable diminution of the ing every possible facility to the employ- number of ships engaged in the carriage ment of capital, and by these means increase of coals from the north of England. It the already vast amount of the commercial would be satisfactory to their Lordships to resources of England. The coasting trade know, that the coasting trade was now in was a most valuable branch of those re- the most vigorous condition, and increasing sources, and the nursery of our seamen. rather than diminishing. The general In estimating the state of the coasting shipping of the country was also on the trade, his noble Friend opposite totally increase. The opening of the trade in the forgot the increase of the coal mines, con- interior of the country was not at all likely sequent on the increase of the metropolis ; to diminish the coasting trade. On the in the last sixty or seventy years the con contrary, the cheapness that would be so sumption of coals had been doubled. He caused, would create a greatly extended totally dissented from the position that they market; and if coals could be brought were bound to discourage the inland trade from the north to the other parts of the for the sake of encouraging any other coast more cheaply than by railway, the debranch of commerce.

mand would be supplied from that quarter. Lord Stanley stated, with reference to But of course the interior could be supthe number of ships and men engaged in plied direct by railway more cheaply than the whale fishery, that the decrease which if they were brought round by sea to some had taken place was not attributable to the part of the coast, and then sent overland. reduction of duty on foreign whale oil. It Lord Kinnaird said, the quality of the was true that a great decrease had taken Newcastle coals was superior to all the inplace between 1832 and 1842; but this land coal; and they always commanded a was concurrently with the maintenance preference. The noble Marquess need be of the highly protective and almost pro- under no apprehension on that account; hibitory duty of 261. 10s. per tun on fo- but he would recommend the noble Mar. reign oil.

In 1832, the price of whale quess to break up the monopoly at the coal oil in this country was 611. per tun; in pits. At the time of his visit to the dis1840, it had risen to 1041. ; in 1832, 81 trict, coals were being shipped to France at ships, of 26,393 tons, and employing 3,645 2s., which, when sent to Dundee, were men, were engaged in the northern whale charged 6s. The coal owners were bound fishery ; in 1842, the duty remaining the by regulation to produce only a certain same, the number had fallen to 18 ships, quantity. of 5,400 tons, and employing only 810 Lord Wharncliffe thought the monopoly men altogether. But since the reduction was now entirely broken up, and that the of the duty on the foreign article, on the trade was perfectly free. contrary, a great increase in the trade had The Marquess of Londonderry did not taken place ; for, since 1842 to the pre- regret that he had brought forward this sent time, the number of ships had arisen Motion; his sole object in doing which from 18 to 32, the tonnage from 5,400 to was to call their Lordships' attention to 8,955, and the number of men employed the importance of maintaining the coasting from 800 to 1,440.

trade. There could be no doubt that the Lord Colchester called the attention of coal owners would prefer to send their coals the Government to the great importance to London by land carriage, if they found of maintaining the coasting trade, and par- it the cheaper mode of conveyance. With ticularly the sea-borne coal trade; because regard to what was called the monopoly, the seamen who wer ought up in it, an immense number of new collieries had were formed in the very best school of lately been brought into the field to extend their profession ; and it was almost the the supply, owing to railroads and other only nursery left. If it should be destroy- causes, which had lowered the price in

London considerably ; the new concerns, venting that company from possessing the not having so heavy rents to pay, or so monopoly they would otherwise have engreat capital invested. The price of a joyed in the iron districts. ton of coals at the mouth of the pit was The Marquess of Clanricarde said, it 78. 6d., while the freight to London con- was worth while, as a matter of curiosity, sumed an equal sum, and the difference to refer to the prospectus originally issued between 15s. and 26s., the price at which by the London and Birmingham Company, they were delivered to the consumer, went and the promises they then made, and to to pay the port dues and corporation taxes compare them with the prices charged by of London. He thought it a great hard that company during part of the last and ship that the individual coal owners the preceding year. "It would then be should only have one-third of the price ; evident that no company had ever made and the fact was, that the best coals were such an attempt to deal unfairly by the sold in London at a loss.

public ; for at the very time they raised The Duke of Wellington would say only their charges to a most unjustifiable height, one word in favour of a corporation with their dividends were very great, and the which he felt it an honour to be connected, price of the stock was immensely high. It he meant that of the Trinity House. He was only because the attention of the entreated their Lordships, in their resolu- country was called to the subject, and betion to maintain the coasting trade, not to cause threats were held out that means lose sight of the lights on the coast of Eng would be taken to compel them to lower land, and of their immense importance to their charges, that those charges were renavigation.

ducid. Returns ordered.

Lord Brougham did not think it had

been shown that the Committee of the Oxrond, WorcesTER, AND Wolver. House of Commons had not been duped. HAMPTON RAILWAY.] Lord Brougham He knew that two instances had lately ocpresented a petition from various parties curred in which the grossest frauds had praying to be heard by counsel against the been practised on Committees of the House Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton of Commons. In one case, a gentleman Railway

named Whateley, a barrister, who intended Lord Redesdale said, he would take this to oppose the Bill, withdrew his opposition opportunity of stating that a gross fraud had on the company promising to introduce a been practised upon the public by the Ox. clause which would prevent the line of ford and Worcester Company, which had railway from passing close to his house ; adopted the broad gauge. When canvass- but when the Bill was passed, no such ing the public, they offered to carry ironclause had been inserted. “Another simiore at a penny per mile; but when they lar case had also occurred. drove the rival line out of the field, they Lord Redesdale was understood to say, raised the charge to three-halfpence per that the London and Birmingham Company mile.

had never raised their rate of charges, exLord Hatherton did not think it likely cept in the case of the mail trains. The that the Committee of the House of Com- petition presented by the noble and learned mons could bave been duped in the man- Lord, could be referred to the Committee, ner the noble Lord seemed to suppose; and who would inquire into the matter. he believed that the ironmasters of Staf. After a few words in explanation from fordshire were much too sharp in looking Lord Hatherton and Lord Redesdale, after their own interests to allow any mea- The Duke of Richmond said, he consid. sure to be carried which might be preju- ered it most desirable that Parliament dicial to those interests. It was required should come to some understanding as to, that a maximum toll clause should be in the tolls to be charged by railway compaserted in all Railway Bills; but he be- nies. Scarcely two Bills had been introlieved nine-tenths of the manufacturers duced into Parliament in which it was were very well satisfied with the low rate proposed to charge similar rates of toll. of charges which had hitherto been levied it appeared to him that the best mode of upon coal and iron. He believed that the remedying the difficulty would be to pass rejection by the other House of Parlia- an Act providing that they would revise ment of a line of railway projected by the rate of tolls charged by railway comthe London and Birmingham Companies every five years. That step in his

, pany had had the good etfect of pre- opinion, would prevent the injurious re

What could be casier than

sults of monopoly, and secure the public 150l. a year. interests; but, as one of the selected Mem-to say to parties who brought in Railway bers, he wished to guard himself against being supposed to express any opinion on this or any other Railway Bill which came before that House.

Subject at an end.

RAILWAY AND OTHER BILLS.] Order of the Day for resuming the Adjourned Debate on the 3rd Resolution (see June 3) read.

Lord Brougham then proposed the Third Resolution affecting the Standing Orders of their Lordships' House which he had submitted to the House yesterday, and the consideration of which had been postponed until to-day. The noble and learned Lord read the Resolution.

Bills, "If you wish to carry this Bill, we think justice requires that you should pay the costs of parties who oppose it?" He would have no objection to allow the Resolution to stand over until Monday, in order that noble Lords might have time to consider the subject. He believed that this Resolution would afford great protection to private individuals; for, if railway projectors were aware that by the Standing Orders of that House they might have to pay the expenses of opposition, they would be disarmed of that power which they at present exercised with the utmost possible oppression. The companies frequently said, "We have a heavy purseoppose us if you dare;" but this Resolution, if adopted, would prevent them from using those threats to deter their opponents from proceeding.

The following Amendments were then

"To add after the Word 'Parties' the followng words-incurred in the Proceedings before this House, or its Committee;' and at the End of the said Resolution the following Words'That where any Committee has directed Expences to be paid by any such Party, it shall report such Direction to the House specially, with the Circumstances inducing them so to direct."

The Earl of Wicklow said, he objected to this Resolution, the effect of which, in his opinion, would be to induce the opponents of railroad projects to defer their opposition until the Bills came into their Lord-moved:ships' House, under the expectation that they would then obtain their costs. He believed that this Resolution would not only prevent opposition to railway schemes in the other House, but that it would have the effect of bringing that opposition exclusively into their Lordships' House, and eventually a collision might ensue between the two Houses. Supposing a railway company refused to pay costs under this Resolution, had the House the power of levying them? They had not. They might journed to Monday. recommend the company to pay costs, and in the event of non-compliance they might refuse to pass their Bill; but he thought such a course on the part of the House would be most unfair, for if a Committee of the House considered the project advantageous to the country generally, it would be most unjust to the community to reject it on such grounds.

The Duke of Richmond: If the Committee recommend costs to be paid to certain opposing parties, what so easy as to put a clause in the Bill for that purpose?

.

Debate on Resolution so amended, ad

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Friday, July 4, 1845.

MINUTES.] BILLS.

Public.-1 Borough and Watch Rates; Deodands Abolition (No. 2); Joint Stock Companies; Schoolmasters (Scotland).

3" and passed: - Foreign Lotteries.
Private.-1° Manchester and Leeds Railway (No. 2);
Derby Court (Westminster).

Reported. Lady's Island and Tacumshin Embankment;
Brighton and Chichester Railway (Portsmouth Exten-
sion); Guildford, Chichester, and Portsmouth Railway;
Direct London and Portsmouth Railway.

:

MESSAGE FROM THE CROWN-RAILWAY ADDRESS.] Colonel Dawson Damer appeared at the bar, and stated that, in reply to an Address which had been presented to Her Majesty, he was commanded to present the following Answer:

Mr. Bernal said, that the circumstances out of which this trial and petition arose were these In the year 1837 or 1838 an application was made to the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Mr. C. Berkeley) to become a director in the Steam Navigation Company to India by the Cape of Good Hope. That offer Mr. Berkeley declined, and he heard no more of it for a time; but at length it came to his knowledge that a private Bill had passed through the AFFRAY AT BALLINHASSIG.] House, and that his name had been in-ply to a question from Mr. Bouverie, serted in it as a director, in (as we understood) the same company; but his hon. Friend had assured him (Mr. Bernal) that such a proceeding was without his sanction or knowledge. The speculation did not succeed, and not long after an action was brought against his hon. Friend and others for a sum of 30,000l., the expense of building a ship for the company at Beyrout. Under these circumstances he hoped the House would reject the prayer of the petition, by negativing the Motion. Mr. C. Berkeley was quite willing that the Motion should be carried, as far as he was personally concerned, but positively denied that his name had been inserted in the Bill with his approbation.