TELLERS.

TELLERS.

the whole settlement invariably became Trotter, J. Young, J.

the scene of the most licentious debauchVesey, hon. T. Baring, H.

ery for the next fortnight or three weeks. List of the Noes.

He contended that there should be some

inquiry as to the sums voted away for Bouverie, hon. E. P. Mitchell, T. A. Bowring, Dr. Morris, D.

purposes of this nature. Upon such a Brotherton, J. Plumridge, Capt.

subject no one could better advise the Buller, C. Protheroe, E.

Government than Lord Metcalfe; and he Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Sheridan, R. B. hoped i hat before next year a report would Collett, J. Wakley, T.

be obtained from that noble Lord as to the Duncan, G. Wawn, J.T.

utility of those presents. Dundas, Adm.

Mr. G. W. Hope said, that the suggesFielden, J. Hawes, B. Williams, W.

tion of the hon. and learned Gentleman

had been anticipated. Inquiries were goHindley, c. Crawford, W.S.

ing forward, and he hoped, before next Vote agreed to.

Session, information on the subject would On the Question that the sum of be in the hands of Her Majesty's Go18,8951. be granted for the Indian De vernment. partment in Canada,

Mr. W. Williams thought that those Mr. Hindley objected to it, on the presents were completely thrown away. ground that the amount necessary for that Many of the Indians were better off thao department should be procured on the our agricultural labourers al home. voluntary system.

Vore agreed to. Mr. Č. Buller said, that his impression On the Question that 48,8001. be grantwas, that if that sum were to be paid by ed for defraying the expenses of Stipendithe people of this country, the best thing ary Justices in our West India Colonies, that could be done with it would be to Mr. Hawes said, they were nearly usethrow it into the sea at once, for he be- less. In his opinion, an annual report lieved that money never was more scan- ought to be made, setting forth the nature dalously applied. When he held office and extent of the services which they perin Canada, le caused inquiries to be made formed. into the management of these Indian sel- Mr. G. W. Hope said a few words in ilements, and he found that there were support of the Vote, the purport of which not three real Indians in the whole of it was impossible to catch in the gallery. them, in Lower Canada. The people were Mr. W. Williams said, that he so de. a kind of half-caste, and were as dissolute, cidedly disapproved of the Vote, that he worthless, and idle a population as were should divide the Committee on it. to be found anywhere on the face of the The Committee divided.-Ayes 61: globe. The largest item in the Vole was Noes 10; Majority 51. one of 14,1571. for Indian presents, On the Question that the sum of stores, &c., and he was aware that some 80,0001. be granted for the Expenses of importance was attached to those pre- the Establishment at Hong Kong, and the sents; but he was sure any one who was British Ports in China. acquainted with the circumstances in Mr. Hawes said, he thought this was an which they were made would agree with immense sum to commence with at these him that they did a great deal more mis establishments. chief than good. The Governor went up

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, into the settlement, and he took care to the expenses of living were very high at give to the inhabitants nothing but what these places, and that in consequence of should be really useful, such as clothing, their reported insalubrity it had been agricultural implements, and so on ; but found necessary to give increased salaries the fact was, that traders always went up to induce persons to accept offices there. also at the saine time with the Governor, Vote agreed to. carrying with them brandy and tobacco, Chairman then reported progress. House and ariicles of that description. The in. resumed. Committee to sit again. habitants, directly they received their presents from the Governor, exchanged them Physic AND SURGERY BILL] On the with the traders for the tobacco and Order of the Day for going into Committee brandy; and the consequence was, that on the Physic and Surgery Bill,

a

.

Sir J. Graham rose to state the altera- passed the College of General Practitiontions he proposed to make in this Bill. It ers. Those who were now practising in was his intention to move that the House England with Scotch or Irish diplomas as should go into Commitiee pro formå, in general practitioners, to be admitted to reorder that his proposed Amendments gister as general practitioners without exmight be printed, and it was his intention amination. He further proposed that the to proceed with the measure in the next clauses relating to Universities should be Session of Parliament. The right hon. struck out, and no restriction imposed either Baronet went on to state that it was his as to the time of residence necessary for intention to adhere to bis proposal to in- granting degrees, or the assumption of the corporate the general practitioners, and titles of graduation. With respect to the that in England there should, in all cases, nomination of the members of the Council be two examinations before the parties of Health, he proposed that the number should be admitted as general practition should be reduced from nineteen to, at the ers. He also adhered to the provision highest, thirteen, including the Secretary which made the age at which the exami- of State ; and that the Crown should have nation should commence twenty-two years, the right of nomination. Application had But, instead of the examination before been made to him to advise the Crown to a joint board of physicians and surgeons, grant a supplementary charter to the Colhe proposed that the first examination lege of Surgeons. That matter was now should be by a board of general practi- before the Crown, and arrangements had tioners, and that subsequently there should been made which, he believed, would in. be an examination before a joint board of duce him to advise Her Majesty to grant surgeons and physicians. Those who the supplementary charter. passed both examinations were then to be Bill went through Committee proforma. registered as general practitioners, and to Mr. Wakley very much feared that the become members of ihe College of Sur changes proposed by the right hon. Gengeons. He further proposed that the fees tleman would not be satisfactory. The for examination by the Colleges of Phy. right hon. Gentleman had certainly taken sicians and Surgeons should be raised, so great pains in reference to the subject, as to pay the examiners properly, and pro- and the public were indebted to him for vide for the museum and library, &c. of the services rendered them on this question; the College of Surgeons, to which the can- but, instead of simplifying his plan by the didates would belong, viz. 51. 5s. for the proposals he had now made, he (Mr. College of Physicians, 51. 5s. for the Colo | Wakley) was afraid that the additional lege of Surgeons, and 101. 10s. for the number of examinations—the double exmuseum, library, and general expenses. aminations as 19 Scotland and Ireland He proposed also that the examinations in would not be satisfactory. The profession, Scotland and Ireland by the Colleges of however, would have an opportunity of Physicians and Surgeons should be kept considering the question during the recess, distinct, in order to equalize the number of and he hoped that all parties would con. examinations for the license of the general cur in bringing about a satisfactory conpractitioner in the three kingdoms. On clusion to this very important, but exremoving from one kingdom to another, tremely difficult question. all classes of practitioners to be admitted Bill as amended to be printed. members of the corresponding College in House adjourned at two o'clock. the kingdom to which they so remove, without further examination, but on pay

HOUSE OF LORDS, ment of the same fees as if they had been

Tuesday, July 29, 1845. originally examined and admitted members

minster.

tions ; Criminal Jurisdiction of Assistant Barristers (Ire. I way Bill with such energy, with a view of land); Militia Pay: Stamp Duties, etc.; Masters and

preventing the further progress of it. He Workmen. 31 and passed ---Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) ; Drainage did not see why this Bill should be stamped (Ireland); Highways; Silk Weavers.

with a character of fraud, when many other Private.-24. Epping Railway; Grimsby Docks; Leeds and Bradford Railway (Mistake Rectifying).

Railway Bills, against which the same Reported.-South Eastern Railway (Deal Extension); Earl charge could be sustained, as to the of Powis's (or Robinson's) Estate; Darby Court, West

names of unqualitied persons being affixed za. and passed :-Eaewash Valley Railway; Glasgow Junc

10 the contract deed, had been allowed to tion Railway ; Manchester and Leeds Railway : Leeds pass without any observation. His con. and Bradford Railway (Mistake Rectifying) : Glasgow, plaint against the Report of the CommitBarrhead, and Neilston Direct Railway; Oxford, Wor. cester, and Wolverhampton Railway; Oxford and Rugby tee was, that it brought the charge of Railway.

systematic fraud having been used for the PETITIONS PRESENTED. From General Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland, and from Haddington, and purpose of obtaining the requisite number from Lochwinnoch, against the Poor Law (Scotland) of signatures. Now, had his noble Friend Act Amendment Bill.

said one word, or quoted a single portion of

evidence, to show that any man had been Irish Great WestERN RAILWAY induced against his will io sign the conBill.] The Earl of Besborouglı said, tract deed to which his name was affixed, that he thought that no noble Lord who or that greater frauds had been perpetrated had read the Report, could doubt that by persons getting shares without referfraud had been perpetrated in making oul ence and inquiry, ihan was the case with the lists of subscribers 10 the Railway. other railways? When a specific charge It was not intended in the Report 10 of fraud was brought against any one, bring a charge of this kind against the the Committee should show that there was directors; but that it had occurred good evidence to sustain such an accusathrough their negligence. The House tion; but there was no evidence to justify was aware that, in undertakings of this such a charge. He denied the whole of kind, it was customary to put in the list the allegations contained in the Report of the provisional committee the names of the Committee. The whole of the proof persons of influence, and more especi- ceedings with respect to the appointment ally those connected with other railways; of the first Committee, were irregular. buí if persons suffered their names to be That Committee was named to inquire thus used, they should take care to sec into the allegations contained in the peti. that the proceedings were properly carried tion of a Mr. Pym, a stockbroker in on. The noble Earl then proceeded to Dublin, who was largely interested in the read extracts from the evidence taken be success of atmospheric railways; and who fore the Committee appointed to inquire was also a large canal proprietor, and, like into the allegations of Mr. Pym's pelition other canal proprietors, was opposed to with respect to the allotments of shares, this Bill, under the notion that it might with the view of showing that the state- be injurious to his interests. So it might ments in that petition had been proved. be immediately, but would not ultimately: He thought that the statement of his no. and some of those people had seen their ble Friend (the Marquess of Clanricarde), mistake, and withdrawn their opposition that the first part of the Report had not to railways ; but then Mr. Pym was a been proved by the evidence, could not shareholder in another railway, and he (the be sustained. He, therefore, was satis Marquess of Clanricarde) was glad that fied, in consequence of the utler want of the House had inquired into the allega. adherence to the Standing Orders of that tions of Mr. Pym; but he contended that House by the promoters of this Bill, that their Lordships ought not to pounce upon they could not allow it to proceed. It an unfortunate Bill, which had been accould not also be said, that the second tually victimized by fraudulent persons, Report did not sustain the allegations in and a company which could not protect The first. Under these circumstances, he itself against those fraudulent parties. felt it to be his duty to move that the Bill Their Lordships ought to attack the sys. be taken into further consideration this tem, not individuals. He trusted that day three months.

next year there would be some material The Marquess of Clanricarde could not alteration in the system of railway governunderstand the reason that induced his meni-The present system was most unnoble Friend to fix on this particular Rail- satisfactory. He knew that the House

as

was most unwilling to act against the not then recollect which was the dateReport of a Select Committee; but the there were no less than fifty railway adproceedings of the Committee on this Bill vertisements, all inviting the public to take were altogether different from those on shares, and of these only

ten required any any other that he recollected. The House reference to be given. Thus the Dublin should remember that Mr. Pym went be- and Galway Railway Bill was now to be fore the Standing Orders' Committee; but thrown out because they did that which his evidence was not received, because it had been done by four-fifths of all the appeared that he had no locus standi, as railways in England, Scotland, and Irehe was not a proprietor in the line, or had land, when they were really in the market. any other interest in connexion or in But he would come to what had been decompetition with it. This person, then scribed as the model of a railway, and of presented a petition to that House, which a board of directors, namely, the London was most irregularly referred to a Select and York, and 10 that model of a witness, Committee, which certainly was against Mr. Moatt. When that gentleman had the Standing Orders. He conceived that been asked whether they had had any apit would be a most unjust proceeding, if plications from men of straw, such they did not allow this Bill to pass. He stable-boys and men of that class, he rea did not deny that some frauds had been plied that they had not above twenty apcommitted, but he strongly denied that plications in which they had been imposed the directors and promoters of the Bill upon. If, therefore, that Company, which were in any way a party to them. [The was so much cried up, had been imposed Earl of Besborough: The Report.] The upon in twenty cases, how could it be ex. Report did not directly make such a pected that a number of Irishmen forced

a charge; but it stated that some persons io resort to the London share-market had got a certain number of signalures should be more successful ? That reimproperly affixed to the contract deed. minded bim of another argument. The Was it not notorious, that there was no evidence of this witness showed that even description of ingenuity which was not great English companies did not disdain to resorted to for the purpose of obtaining give allotments of shares at first without inshares, as such large profit was often de- quiry, and that it was only when they got rived from speculating in them? It was a position in the market that they took known, also, that the stockbrokers had the precaution to have men of undoubted now lists of persons, called black lists, credit selected as their shareholders. In who were constantly engaged in the traffic fact, it was quite necessary at the comof shares, and many of these persons had mencement of such undertakings that more imposed on persons engaged in promoting than ordinary risk should be incurred. English and Scotch railways, who were The witness stated that it was found to be much better able to protect themselves always the case that when capital was from such proceedings than the promoters coming in, it begot other capital from sub. of an Irish railway; and all this arose scribers of greater respectability. It was from the imperfect state of the law. The a notorious fact that in the case of the noble Marquess then proceeded to read a Greenwich Railway, which now, he belist of the names of persons who had im lieved; carried as many passengers as any posed upon the directors of this Company, railway in England, that fully half of the and who had been referred to in the Re- capital, when the Bill passed through port of the Committee, and showed that Parliament, was utterly bad, but that those persons were subscribers for shares these shares afterwards fell into good in several English and Scotch Railway hands. And in another railway, also the Companies to a much larger amount, than Gloucester and Bristol Railway-which was the case with respect to the Dublin now conferred great benefits on the part and Galway Railway. By referring to of the country through which it passed, The Times newspaper, in which the adver- upwards of one-third of the subscription tisement for this Company first appeared, list, as it originally stood, was found to be it would be found that out of twenty- bad, though the shares of this company four advertisements of railway com- were now selling, or had been selling two panies published in it, only four required days ago, at 30 per cent. premium. He any reference at all; and in the Times of could not, therefore, see why they were to the 6th or 7th of November last he did make an example of the Dublin and Galway Company, whilst others had been te allowed to pass. It was quite possible for re parties to get up fraudulent cases, for the in purpose of extorting money from the di- c rectors. For instance, four persons, A, B, t1 C, and D, might sign the subscription list m for each other, and then if they found the in speculation not to answer their wishes, they il could go to the directors, and, under t threats of exposing their own dishonesty, extort money from them. In this way, he could account for the petition of the per- tl son, or rather the name of Gerard Barry. a No such man could be found, and though n the name was one that sounded familiarly enough, it could not be discovered that in this person had ever existed. The entire un amount required to be subscribed in this I Company, under the Standing Orders, i was 810,0001., while the amount really f subscribed was 819,0001., of which 67,2001. was found to be bad. But then by the a alteration which had been proposed in the a original plan, a saving of twenty miles would be effected, in consequence of the L Galway line joining the Cashel line at Portarlington. A sum amounting in the entire to 228,0001. would, from this and other circumstances, be available over and above what was necessary to complete the line, independent of which the Great Southern and Western Railway Company now offered to subscribe 100,0001. additional capital if the Bill were now passed. 1 The noble Marquess proceeded to refer to the evidence of Mr. Mulvany, the engineer, and of General Sir John Burgoyne, chairman of the Board of Works in Ireland, given before the Committee, to show the great importance of this line of rail.« way, and then continued to say that he would humbly submit to the House that this Bill should be allowed to pass on the ground of its great utility to the country -on the ground that its rejection could effect no public good-on the ground that by throwing out the Bill they could do right to no person who had been wronged

- that they could not remedy any imperfections in their law-and that they could do nothing except put a stop to one of the most important works that could be undertaken in Ireland, and that, too, at a most critical period in the affairs of that country. The present Session had not been either a very short or a very unimportant one, and yet he would put it fairly to the House what had they done for Ireland? They had certaiuly made an at