Standing Order, No. 113, vacated. COMMONS' ENCLOSURE BILL.] On the Motion of Lord Stanley, the House resolved itself into Committee. On Clause 1 being read, this was an illegal seizure, that no letters | ory of a deceased person, and a very refrom any deceased Peer was contained in markable action of that kind was tried the publication, and that the Committee in the early part of the reign of George II. did not think it contrary to the Standing He considered this Standing Order one Order,and they therefore recommended that having a strong tendency to bring into the books which had been seized, should disrepute the necessary privileges of their be restored to Edmund Curll. The Report Lordships' House, and he, therefore, begwas read by the clerk attending the House, ged to move that it be rescinded. and agreed to, and the books were given Motion agreed to. back to the publisher. He was not aware that there had been any other seizure under this Standing Order, though there had been many lives of deceased Peers and of deceased Prelates, Members of their Lordships' House, published on various occasions, without the leave of the friends or representatives of the deceased parties. His noble and learned Friend, who, he regretted to perceive, was not then present (Lord Brongham), had published lives, powerfully and ably written, of several deceased Members of that House, more especially of Lord Chatham and Lord North, and he had no doubt without the consent of the heirs and representatives of those noblemen. He (Lord Campbell) had also employed many laborious hours, without, he hoped, incurring the censure of that House, in writing the lives of the predecessors of his noble and learned Friend on the Woolsack, both spiritual and temporal. The Lord Chancellor: Not down to the present time, I hope. Lord Portman complained that under the clause, the entire control of the commons to be enclosed would be given to the First Commissioner of Woods and Forests; and when the Drainage Bill passed, the whole landed property of England would be under the control of the Government of the day. He thought, that either the Chairman of the Woods and Forests, or the other unpaid Commissioner, who was not named in the Bill, should be struck out, as he had no doubt but that the latter would also be immediately connected with the Government. Lord Stanley said, the House of Commons had thought proper to send up the Bill with provision for only one paid Commissioner, and if but one unpaid Commissioner were appointed in addition, the two Commissioners would not be able to Lord Campbell said, he hoped many work as satisfactorily, in case of differyears would pass before any one could ences among themselves, as a Board conhave an opportunity of writing the life of sisting of three Members. These Comthe present Lord Chancellor as a deceased missioners would not have so much power Peer. Curious enough it was, that the as the noble Lord supposed. All they Standing Order did not apply to his noble had to do was, in the event of a certain and learned Friend, for any body might number of persons interested in the entake such a liberty with him. The Stand- closure, making an application to them ing Order did not apply to the life of any for the purpose, first to make inquiry, and except a deceased Peer. In fact, it only they were then empowered to frame a followed the rule de mortuis nil nisi scheme or draft bill of the enclosure. bonum. It must, if enforced, serve as an That scheme was to be referred to the entire prohibition against writing the lives parties interested in the inquiry, and unless of some Chance!lors. For instance, St. these assented to the proposal of the Swithin had been Lord Chancellor to Commissioners, then the whole matter King Ethelbert, and St. Thomas A'Becket fell to the ground. Even if the parties was also Lord Chancellor of England, and did assent, the subject should then come who the heirs or personal representatives before Parliament. The main object of of these deceased Members of their Lord- the Bill was to save expense, and he ship's house might be, he had been un- thought, under the circumstances, that able to discover. Besides, he considered some one of the Commissioners ought to the Standing Order unnecessary, inas- be a responsible Minister, who would be much as the law allowed an indictment to answerable to Parliament for what was be laid for a libel reflecting on the mem-done, Clause agreed to. Clauses, up to Clause 11, agreed to. On Clause 12 being read, Lord Stanley moved the omission from the clause of the words "That no royal forest, or any part thereof, shall be deemed common land under the provisions of this Bil," For the purpose of inserting the words "No part of the New Forest, in Hampshire, or of the Forest of Dean, shall, &c." He proposed the alteration, because he understood there were forest lands in some parts of Wales that might be advantageously brought under the provi sions of the Bill. to. The clause as amended agreed to. Clauses 13, 14, 16, 17, and 18, agreed Clause 15 postponed. Clause 19 was agreed to, after some discussion between Lord Stanley, Lord Portman, Lord Cottenham, Lord Lyndhurst, and Lord Camoys, as to the mode in which the interests of infants were to be represented in cases of enclosure. Clauses 20 and 21 agreed to. Clause 22 was postponed at the instance of Lord Campbell, as it was founded upon the supposition that the existing law had been violated. The other clauses agreed to, with a few verbal Amendments. POOR LAW AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL] The Duke of Buccleuch, in moving that the House do now resolve itself into Committee, adverted to the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry on this subject, detailing the present state of the law and its administration. It was well known that the present provision for the relief of the poor in Scotland was very inadequate; an inadequacy not arising from any want of charitable disposition among the people, but from the defects of the machinery created for carrying out the law. In providing for the more effectual relief of the poor, it was not intended to alter the principle of the present law; the Bill was framed in accordance with the evidence taken before the Commissioners, and he believed was regarded with general favour in Scotland. Lord Campbell allowed that there was in the Bill much that was good; but still thought it might be made better; he would, therefore, suggest that it should stand over, so that it might be improved during the recess. He admitted that the state of the Poor Law in Scotland was most objectionable, and, above all, that part of the law with reference to pauper and criminal lunatics. That most importhe medical relief of the poor, he greatly tant portion of the Bill having reference to approved of. He was satisfied that it was for the interest of the poorer classes that there should not be too lavish a measure of relief for the destitute poor, for by so doing, a strong stimulus to exertion was removed. There were some persons who thought that every ill affecting humanity could be removed by the Legislature; but this was merely chimerical. To offer inducements to a young man and young woman, without any means, to marry at an early period children as their fecundity would furnish, of life, and to bring into the world as many was a principle which was most objectionable, and to which he never could give his assent. These early marriages had been productive of one of the evils under which Ireland suffered, and any checks to so great an evil must prove salutary. There were some of the clauses of the Bil! which he was satisfied would give rise to considerable litigation, and would cause an enormous expenditure. Those parts of the measure having reference to the Law of Settlement were also open to objection. Some parts of the Bill, also, would fall rather heavily on English persons taking up a temporary residence in Scotland. Voluntary assessment formerly existed to a considerable extent in many parts of Scotland; but they might depend upon it, under the operation of this Bill, that they would be got rid of altogether. It might be held that all property liable to the Property Tax ought to be made liable to this tax also; but at present they had no rule whatever. The noble Duke was wrong in supposing that this Bill would not alter the existing law, as there were to be three new modes of assessment introduced under it, and there would be agitation and disunion produced in every parish in Scotland, in fixing on which particular mode they should select. One of the most gross instances of injustice which the Bill would inflict, would be in cases where Englishmen had a temporary residence in Scotland. In every such case, all the property which the individual possessed in any part of the world would be liable to assessment in the parish in which he resided. He trusted, therefore, that the Government would introduce some provision to guard against this injustice. Having stated these objections, he would not, for the present, detain their Lordships with any additional remarks. His principal objection was to the clauses regarding assessment. They were calculated to produce infinite litigation, and unless they were altered, it would, he thought, be much better to withdraw the Bill altogether, and to wait for another year before legislating on the subject. If persevered in as it at present stood, he had no difficulty in foretelling that the Bill would be hereafter called the curse of Scotland. House in Committee. Lord Campbell said, he had some Amendments to suggest as to the Assessment Clauses, and also respecting South Leith. which he would bring forward on the bringing up of the Report. The Earl of Haddington wished to observe, in reference to what had fallen from the noble and learned Lord who had just sat down, that the principle of assessment to which he objected was the principle of the old law, and was also admitted in various local Acts. It had been tried for a long period, and he never heard of its having created any of the litigation or difficulty which the noble and learned Lord seemed to apprehend. He could not understand why any Scotchman who, as was sometimes the case, made a large fortune in England, should not be taxed when he returned to reside in his native country. Besides, he believed it did not happen that means and substance were rated in England. Lord Campbell said, the noble Earl had entirely misunderstood him. He by no means objected to the principle of means and substance being taxed, as he believed it to be perfectly just and proper; but what he wanted was, that there should be a definition of the term given in the Bill. The Lord Chancellor said, he did not understand the Bill to introduce any new principle in the law. The courts of Scotland would decide on the construction of the term means and substance, in accordance with their usual mode of proceeding; and if that was not thought sufficient, he should wish to hear the noble and learned Lord himself try his hand at a definition. The Earl of Dalhousie said, the law existed in Scotland for 300 years, and, to his own knowledge, was constantly acted upon. Bill reported without Amendment. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MINUTES.] Monday, July 28, 1845. BILLS. Public.-1. Tenants (Ireland); Cost, Private Bills; Waste Lands (Australia). 2o. Apprehension of Offenders. 3. and passed:-Customs Laws Repeal; Customs Management; Customs Duties; Warehousing of Goods; British Vessels; Shipping and Navigation; Trade of British Possessions Abroad; Customs Bounties and Allowances; Isle of Man Trade; Smuggling Prevention; Customs Regulation: Stock in Trade; Removal of Paupers; Court of Chancery; Physic and Surgery; Valuation (Ireland). 3. and passed:-Real Property (No 3); Taxing Master, Court of Chancery (Ireland); Libel; Church Building Acts Amendment; Granting of Leases; Documentary Evidence. Private.-Reported.-Ellison's Estate; Rochdale Vicarage (or Molesworth's) Estate; White's Charity Estate. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Sir W. Somerville, from Guardians of the Navan Union, for Alteration of Law relating to Landlord and Tenant (Ireland).-By Colonel Rolleston, from Practitioners of Medicine and Surgery, of Nottingham, in favour of Physic and Surgery Bill.-By Sir W. Somerville, and Mr. Wawn, from Guardians of Dunshaughlin Union, and Inhabitants of Kinsale, for Alteration of Poor Relief (Ireland) Act.-By Mr. Spooner, from a great number of places, for Alteration of Law relating to Promiscuous Intercourse.-By Mr. Blackburne, from Nantwich, for Diminishing the Number of Public Houses. The House met at twelve o'clock. REMOVAL OF PAUPERS.] The Report on the Removal of Paupers Bill was brought up. On the question that it be agreed to, Mr. Sharman Crawford complained that the Bill would cause a great deal of misery by separating families. He would mention one instance, that of a labouring man, who, after leaving Newtownards, had resided thirty-three years at Whitehaven, and having become chargeable to the parish, he was immediately sent off to Newtownards, regardless of his prayers and entreaties to be permitted to remain at Whitehaven, where some of his children had gained settlements. This separation had so great an effect upon the unhappy man's mind, that he had hanged himself. Sir J. Graham said, that the Bill was intended chiefly to relieve Scotch and Irish paupers from many of the evils to which they had hitherto been exposed. In respect to the case mentioned by the hon. Member for Rochdale, he believed that the head of a family could not be removed in the way mentioned against his will, and if he were thus improperly removed, the party so offending would be subject to a severe penalty. Report agreed to. Bill to be read a third time. GAMES AND WAGERS.] House in Committee on the Games and Wagers Bill. Clauses up to 16 were agreed to. On Clause 17, Wagers not recoverable at law being proposed, Mr. C. Berkeley objected to the proviso to the clause, that it was not to apply to subscriptions for a plate or prize, because it was legislating for one side only, and because it would, he contended, legalize gambling one way, while it attempted to put a stop to it on the other. Sir J. Graham thought the proviso essential to the clause. It only legalized mere subscriptions. The Committee divided on the Question, that the proviso stand part of the clause: -Ayes 37: Noes 3; Majority 34. List of the AYES. defeat the ends of justice, then it would often be necessary for a magistrate to act singly. Mr. Henley wished to be informed whether or not it was the intention of the right hon. Baronet to bring in a measure next Session relative to those cases where a magistrate was called on to act singly in a judicial capacity. Sir J. Graham was not prepared to introduce any such measure. In answer to Mr. Hume, Sir J. Graham said, he had no intention of introducing a measure to relieve the county magistrates from those duties. On the whole, he thought that they were most useful to the country from the manner in which they discharged their duties. HOURS OF BUSINESS.] Mr. Brotherton wished to suggest to the right hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) that it would be better that, for the remainder of the Session, the House should meet at twelve o'clock, and continue its sitting until the business on the Paper for the day was finished, instead of adjourning for an hour or two, as at present, between the morning and evening sittings. Sir R. Peel thought that it was objectionable to make any departure from the Custom of the House in the transaction of business, especially at so late a period of the Session, without the general concur. rence of the House. His own opinion was in favour of the suggestion of the hon. Gentleman, and if that suggestion met with general concurrence on the part of the House, he had no objection to it whatever. If, therefore, the House concurred in the suggestion, he had no objection to propose that, after to-morrow, the House should meet for the despatch of business at twelve o'clock, and sit continuously, instead of adjourning after the morning sitting. EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS.] On the into Committee of Supply be read, Motion that the Order of the Day for going Mr. Ewart said, that when the Military, the Naval, and the Ordnance Estimates were brought before the House, a statement was made of the prospects and condition of those branches of the public service respectively; and he did not see why, in like manner, there should not be an annual statement of the condition and prospects of the Educational Institutions which were in many of the smaller towns, there were public libraries accessible to all classes, and to the foreigner as well as the native. If the Government of this country would only assist in promoting the establishment of such libraries in all our large towns, they would confer upon the public a great and a lasting boon. He did not ask the Government to originate them, he only asked them to assist in their establishment. There was another point which he deemed of great importance, which was, that Government should promote, as far as it could, the encouragement of education, by the examination of those persons who were candidates for subordinate offices under Government. This might be regarded by some as a very visionary proposal, and as a thing which could not be carried into effect. But he had been told by Members of the late Government that the experiment had been tried, Lord Melbourne having set aside three clerkships of the Treasury for that purpose, and that it had been successful. He thought such educational appointments would work well, and that the public servants thus selected would be found efficient and well qualified for their duties. It was simply his desire, in the present instance, to call the attention of the Government and of the House to this consideration, which he thought a very important one. Every point of the Motion which he was about to lay before the House had reference to the mode in which Government might promote, without unduly interfering with, the question of education. Undue interference in this matter he deprecated. Undue interference the people of this country would not tolerate. Upon this whole subject he felt so strongly, that he considered himself bound to take the sense of the House, if necessary, upon it. The hon. Gentleman concluded by laying the following Resolutions on the Table, and moving the first supported partly or wholly by the public funds. What he called for was not a published Report, but a viva voce statement on this important subject. The publication of a blue book was not the most effectual way of bringing this matter before the House and the country, and he thought that the Annual Report, prepared by Commissioners and Inspectors appointed to go the round of the country, furnished a convenient mode not of developing, but of concealing such a question. Amongst other improvements which he thought were called for in connexion with the subject of education, was that of raising the condition of the schoolmasters of the country, and of increasing their pay. He trusted that this important improvement would be speedily realized. There was also a necessity for increasing the number and the efficiency of the training schools of the country, as a greater number of training masters than were at present to be had were required. As to the grant appropriated for the purpose of education, he thought that 75,000l. was but a paltry grant for the supply of the educational wants of such a country as this. In Scotland, as well as in England, the pay of the schoolmaster was very inadequate. In both countries he was anxious to see the condition of the schoolmasters much improved. Connected with this question was the important consideration, as to Scotland, of the improvement of the condition of the schoolmasters belonging to the Free Church. He gave credit to the Government for their new system of education in Ireland, and did not apprehend that the fears of those who thought that that system would make the Irish an irreligious people would be at all realized. In reference to education, he thought that the Government could only interfere collaterally and not directly. So much for the first portion of the Motion of which he had given notice. Another portion of that Motion referred to public libraries, a subject to which he had, on former occasions, called the attention of the House. On one occasion, on which he had alluded to it, he was answered by the right hon. Baronet that there were libraries of a public nature already established in England, such as those connected with mechanics' institutes in our large manufacturing towns. But there was only one library in this country, of which he was aware, that could be compared with the libraries which were so numerous on the Continent. In France, in Italy, in Germany, and in other continental countries, not only in the large, but |