secure important with regard to some than respect. His own temper and feelings others; but wishing to imitate the liberal inclined him to do so. His hon. Friend and generous spirit which had been mani. had said that it was only in the absence fested towards the Government by the other of all general security for religious teachside of the House, he was willing to leave ing that he had felt himself driven to prothat question to the decision of the go- pose the particular test contained in his verning body, placing confidence in them clause; but he (Sir J. Graham) must say and the Government by whom they would that he agreed with the hon. Member for be appointed. In preparing the declara- Dundalk, that the safety of this measure tion which he intended to propose, his rested on the weight of public opinion, object was to place a bar against infidelity; and of responsibility brought to bear upon but at the same time not to introduce a lhe present and all fulure Administraa word which could give the least pain 10 tions; and he certainly could not have any class of persons believing in Divine sanctioned the absence of all religious test Revelation. In support of The form of as to the principals and professors of these declaration which he proposed he might Colleges, if the nomination of them and a quote from the third volume of the Re- power of removal also had not been vested miniscences of Dr. Arnold, a passage, in in the Crowo. He considered that secuwhich Dr. Arnold, speaking of most dir-rity infinitely preferable to the one now ferent religious sects, said, " We all be- proposed. He admitted the weight of Dr. lieve that ihe books of the Old and New Arnold's authority; but he was bound to Testament contain God's revealed will 10 point out to the Committee that the words man." He was willing to take his full of the proposed test would be no sufficient share of the responsibility of this measure security against the evil which they were as it stood ; but he felt that it wanted intended to provide against. The professor ibis conclusion, in order 10 it would at once, when required to make against abuse, and in order to render that this declaration, put the question, " To homage to the religious feelings of both what version of the Scriptures do you countries, of the value of which he was allude?" Were Protestants all agreed sure they were not insensible. The hon. upon one version ? Had not Unitarians Baronet concluded by moving, after the an entirely different version from that of words or or to hold office therein," to add the Established Church? Would not the " except as hereinafter provided." Unitarian take the test in a different sense Sir J. Graham said, that he rose to from the members of the Established address the House with great pain ; but Church? And as to the books of the Old he could assure his hon. Friend that the Testament, were there not very material Government were quite sensible that he differences between the Protestant and was actuated by no unkindness to them; Roman Catholic versions? He was grieved but that, on the contrary, they felt bound to enter into such a discussion; but it was 10 acknowledge the support which he had forced upon him. He could point out other given them on that Bill-a support which, reasons why the proposed iest was insuffor many reasons, it must have been pain- ficient for its object, but he abstained ful for him 10 give. His affectionate re- from pursuing a subject of that kind. He gard for his hon. Friend personally, and thought he had shown that the words-his respect for his principles, rendered it open on other grounds to great objections painful to him to resist bis proposition ; --would give no security for the promotion and if he were not convinced that he could of sound religious instruction ; whilst, on not, consistently with the principle of the the other hand, the Bill provided ample Bill, assent to it, nothing would bave in security against any attempts to sap the duced him to offer the opposition which religious principles of the students. So he was compelled to give to the Motion. far from discouraging religious education, No man more deeply regretted the discus- they had supplied every inducement 10 sion of such subjects in that House; but provide religious instruction out of the it had been his unfortunate lot, in propos- walls of the College, and within the walls ing measures for the last few years, to they had afforded facilities for giving such have given more frequent rise to discus- instruction. It was not from any doubt in sions of that nature than perhaps any his mind, therefore, that religion was the other man. He was most anxious io treat basis of all human knowledge, that he the subject with the utmost reverence and I opposed the Motion; he believed that re a ligious knowledge was that which purified he was willing to accept it, though it the leaven of secular knowledge, and it might not go to the extent of doing more this Bill should discourage religious in- ihan partially mitigating the evils of this struction, he should greatly regret it; but system. Having listened to the discus. he did not believe that any such resultsions which had taken place on other would follow. He believed the Roman clauses of this Bill, too, he could not Catholics could, by private endowment, change the opinion he had hitherto entersecure religious teaching; and that lectures cained upon it, viz., that it was not a Bill would be delivered in the Colleges in con- which ought to meet with the support of formity with the leading creeds of that that House. That opinion he entertained country, the Roman Catholic, the Presby- religiously; and, in repeating his objec. terian, and the Established Church. Notions 10 it for the last time, he must add, test was required; but the responsibility that he did not believe this Bill would proof the Government in the selection of the duce any good effect; and his only hope officers of these Colleges was, after all, the was, that it would produce no effect whatbest security against any abuse; and, ever. therefore, reluctantly, but decidedly, he Sir R. Peel said, that the proposition must oppose the Motion. of the hon. Baronet was simply a precauSir R. Inglis was surprised that, with the tion against infidelity. But was infidelity sentiments which had been so well ex- an evil in Ireland, against which it was pressed by the right hon. Baronet, he did necessary for them to legislate? He did not come to the same conclusion with his not believe there was a country in the hon. Friend (Sir T. Acland). He was world in which the charge of infidelity happy to find before the House a proposi- would expose a man to such reprobation tion which he could support, as he did that as in Ireland. But take the case of Engof his hon. Friend, involving at least some land. Was infidelity an evil in England improvement in the present measure. at the present day? He did not believe Mr. Cowper rejoiced in having an op- that in England, or in Ireland, infidelity portunity of supporting the Amendment was an evil against which it was necessary of the hon. Baronet, as it comprehended a that Parliament should legislate. There principle in which he thought that all who could not be a doubt that the Crown deserved the name of Christians might would grossly neglect its duty in first apagree. pointing any person to an office in these Lord J. Manners said, that the closing Colleges against whom the charge of proobservations of the right hon. Baronet pagating infidel doctrines could be brought him to a different conclusion from brought, or, if appointed, in continuing that at which the right hon. Baronet had him in his office. It appeared to him, arrived. In referring to the responsibility then, that the security it was proposed to of the Ministers of the Crown upon this give under this Amendment, was a per. subject, he must add, without wishing to fectly delusive one, and that the state of say anything which might cast suspicion religion in these kingdoms was such as to upon the present, or upon any Govern- render it unnecessary to take such ground ment, that he could not help reflecting against this measure as that proposed. upon what was taking place in France Mr. Philip Howard opposed the Motion upon questions of this sort, where a sys- of the hon. Baronet (Sir T. Acland); as a tem of education which was upheld by the Catholic, he feared, if adopted, it might whole weight of a Government, of which lead to the inference, that tradition was M. Guizot was a leading member, was not a necessary part of the groundwork stigmatized as an infidel system. From of faith. It would also be better in a the best investigation which he had been new measure not to revive the system of able to give to this question, and the tests, where no imperative and cogent statements which had been made upon it, necessity required it. It would be well to . he must say, that when they were about reserve the power of naming a Jew to the to introduce a similar system in this coun- chair of Hebrew, in the same manner as try, it behoved them to weigh with the it would be natural to appoint a German, greatest care every proposition which was or a Frenchman, to the Professorships of brought forward of so dangerous a ten- their respective languages. If inclined to Jency. With reference to the proposi- criticise the terms of the proposed test, tion of the hon. Baronet (Sir T. Acland), d he should say, it would be more correct a 1 to affirm the Scriptures to be the word | future times ? He was not fond of adopt. than the " will of Almighty God;" ing new theological propositions, and he as the will “could be only known by could not consent to adopt a solemn prothe interpretation given to Holy Writ.” position like this without seriously lookUpon the whole, he (Mr. Howard) ing to the terms in which it was couched. deemed it unadvisable to insist on the The Motion of his hon. Friend called upon adoption of this or any other test; for, them to adopt a pre-enunciation of a po. with all respect to the motives of the sitive theological principle, couched in Mover, and, above all, with all reverence language partly resting upon the authoto the written word of God, he did not rity of a Member of Parliament, and think the cause of religion would be partly on that of Dr. Arnold. The proa gainer by its adoption. position was a new proposition-it was Mr. Adderley said, that if the Colleges not one adopted in turns by the Church to be established were to be confined to of England ; and he was afraid that if the the teaching of the natural sciences, the House were to adopt it, his hon. Friend religious tests would be unnecessary; but would find a difficully in regard to it, on as ihey would trench on this field of the part of the Roman Catholics of Iremoral duty, the case became altered. He land themselves. He considered that had voted for the Maynooth Bill because it was at once open to the charge of it recognised the duty of the State to pro- being too exclusive, and too lax. His vide for the religious instruction of the right hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) had majority of the people; and he should adverted to the case of a large class of vote for the Amendment, because the Go-theologians in Germany connected with vernment proposition was a retreat from what was called the rationalizing school. that principle. He (Mr. Gladstone) did not tbink any Lord C. Hamilton did not think there member of that school would feel any was any country in which there was so greater objection to the terms of the hon. much religion and so little infidelity as in Baronet's (Sir T. D. Acland's) proposiIreland. tion than might be felt by some nembers Mr. Gladstone said, that the high char- of our own church. Indeed, he did not acter of the hon. Baronet who had pro- know whether even Dr. Strauss himself, posed this Amendment, and of those who had acquired an unhappy notoriely Gentlemen who supported it, was such as in connexion with the school to which he to render it incumbent upon those who referred, might not be prepared to subentertained objections to bis proposition, scribe the test proposed by his hon, and who yet had a sincere regard for reli- Friend. He held that in certain cases the gion, to say something in support of their objections to such a test were entirely reasons for disagreeing with it. He must outweighed by the advantages which might say, then, that he thought there was much attend it, and the necessity which rendered force in the objections which had been it advisable. But he did not entertain advanced by the right hon. Baronet (Sir that opinion in the present case, for he did J. Graham) as to the ambiguity of Ibis not think any advantage could accrue from test. His hon. Friend must be aware that the application of such a test; but that, between Protestants of different sects, on the contrary, great evil might result and certainly between the Church and the from holding out å delusive promise which Unitarians, there were many differences could not be realized. He considered, with respect to the original version of therefore, that the Amendment of his hon. many portions of the Holy Scriptures. Friend, far from being an improvement on Now, as to matters of general principle, the Bill, would be entirely the reverse. he must say, that it was undesirable for Believing, then, that this was an am. parties engaged in the selection of a test biguous and equivocal proposition—that to choose words which they not merely it could attain none of the purposes for suspected, but which they knew must be which such a test ought to be employed, used by different classes of persons in a while it was open 10 strong objections, different sense. It was difficult to secure and that it was a positive evil to make a perfect bona fides as 10 tests; such provision for attaining a religious character had been bitherto the case; and what by means which they knew to be insuffihope was there of maintaining a defined cient, he hoped the Committee would not and single interpretat on of such tests in adopt the Amendment. TELLERS. Mr. Redington was satisfied the hon. Gore, hon. R. Peel, J. Baronct, in bringing forward this Amend. Goulburn, ri. hon. H. Plumridge, Capt. ment, did not wish to throw any aspersion Graham, rt, hn. Sir J. Polhill, F. upon the religious creed of Catholics ; but Granger, T. C. Praed, W.T. that he was merely introducing what he Halford, Sir H. Grimston, Visct. Pusey, P. considered an essential safeguard in a Hamilton, W.J. Redington, T. N. Ross, D. R. measure of this nature. He must say, Hamilton, Lord C. Russell, J. D. W. however, that if this Amendment went io Herbert, rt. hon. S. Seymour, Sir H. B. a division, he would feel it his duty to vote Hindley, C. Smith, A. J. against it; for the introduction of such a Holmes, hon. W. A'C. Smith, rt. hn. T. B.C. test as that proposed by the hon. Gentle Hope, Sir J. Somerset, Lord G. man would excite great dissatisfaction Hope, G, W. Somerville, Sir W.M. Hotham, Lord among the Roman Catholics of Ireland. Stansfield, W. R. C. Howard, P. H. The Committee divided on the Ques. Hughes, W.B. Stuart, Lord J. Stuart, H. tion that the words be inserted Ayes 36; Jermyn, Earl Sutton, hon. H. M. Noes 105: Majority 69. Lawson, A. Tennent, J. E. Lincoln, Earl of Thornbill, G. Lockhart, W. Trelawny, J. S. Tuite, H. M. Manners, Lord C. S. Wakley, T. Warburton, II. Meynell, Capt. Wawn, J.T. Barrington, Visct. Paiten, J. W. Mitchell, T. A. Bernard, Visct. Wellesley, Lord C. Neville, R. Wortley, hon. J. S. Newport, Visct. Wyse, T. Nicholl, rt, hon. J. Packe, C. W. Young, J. Peel, rt, hn. Sir R. Mackenzie, W.F. Dick, Q. Sibthorp, Col. Dickinson, F. H. Sotheron, T. H.S. On the Question that the clause stand East, J. B. Spooner, R. part of the Bill, Farnham, E. B. Tower, C. Mr. Hindley contended it involved a Gladstone, Capt. Turnell, H. Greenhall, P. Vesey, hon. T. violation of liberty of conscience, for it Hamilton, G, A. Waddington, li. S. precluded students from resorting for inHenley, J. W. struction to tutors of their own religious Hope, A. creed, while it compelled them to receive Jervis, J. Inglis, Sir R. H. the tuition of professors appointed by the Lambton, H. Acland, Sir T. D. Government. He had, therefore, to move that the clause be omitted. List of the Noes. The Committee divided on the Original A'Court, Capt. Chapman, B. Question :- Ayes 100 ; Noes 0: Majority Aldam, W. Chelsea, Visct. 100. Antrobus, E. Clements, Visct. List of the Ayes. Cockburn,rt.hn.Sir G. Acland, Sir T. D. Bruce, Lord E. Corry, right hon, H. Acland, T. D. Bunbury, T. A'Court, Capt. Builer, P. S. Card well, E. Chapman, B. Clerk, rt. hn. Sir G. Boldero, H. G. Duncombe, hon. a. Baillie, Col. Cockburn,rt.ho. Sir G. Borthwick, P. Dundas, D. Baring, rt. hn. F. T. Corry, it, hon. H. Bowes, J. Emlyn, Visct. Baring, rt. ho. W. B. Cowper, hon. W. F. Bowles, Adm. Escott, B. Barrington, Visct. Craig, W.G. Cripps, W. Ferguson, Sir R. A. Blackburne, J. I. Dickinson, F. H. Dundas, D. Escott, B. Bowes, J. Esmonde, Sir T. Fitzroy, hon. H. Broadwood, H. Flower, Sir J. Gladstone,ri.ho.W.E. Brotherton, J. Forster, M. Cardwell, E. Gordon, hon, Capi. Browne, hon. W. Fremantle,rt.hn.Sirt. TELLERS, H. Some years TELLERS. Gill, T. the 141h Clause, which gave a power Gladstone,re.bn.W.E. Pringle, J. to the different religious communities, by Gordon, hon. Capt. Rashleigh, W. private contribution, to endow chairs of Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Rawdon, Col. Graham, ri. hn. Sir J. Redington, T. N. theology. It was a well known truth that, Granger, T. C. Replon, G, W.J. in other affairs of life, opposition prevented llalford, Sir II. Ross, D. R. imposition. In the case, then, before the Hamilton, G. A. Scoli, hon. F. House, the rivalry of different creeds Hamilton, W.J. Shaw, rt. hon. F. would give an impulse to talent, and llamilton, Lord C. Smith, J. A. prove an incentive to exertion; the reHerbert, rt. hon. S. Smith, rt. hn. T. B, C. ligicus zeal of individuals should be alHolmes, hon. W. A'C. Somerset, Lord G. lowed to supply what was unavoidably Hope, A. Somerville, Sir W.M. wanting in the Government measure. lloward, P. U. Stuart, Lord J. Should an appeal be made to the Catholics Jermyn, Earl Stuart, H. of England, he (Mr. Howard) doubted Jervis, J. Sutton, hon. II. M. pot that he would come forward in aid of Lambton, II. Thornhill, G. his Irish co-religionists, and would strive Lawson, A. Trelawny, J.S. to procure for the youth of Ireland the Lincoln, Earl of Tufnell, H. blessings of a religious education in the Lockhart, w. Vesey, hon. T. McNeill, D. Waddington, H. S. faith of their forefathers. Manners, Lord C. S. Wakley, T. must necessarily elapse before the Col. Martin, C. W. Warburton, II. leges in question could be built and Meynell, Capt. Wawn, J. T. opened ; ample time would, therefore, be Mitchell, T. A. Wellesley, Lord C. given to organize a subscription in furMorris, D. Wortley, hon. J.S. therance of the great object they had in Neville, R. Wyse, T. view, so dear to that House and the counNicholl, rt. hon. J. O'Connell, M. J. try — namely, the combining religious Packe, C. W. Young, J. tuition with literature and scientific atPeel, it. hon, Sir R. Mackenzie, W. F. tainments. Mr. Hindley opposed the clause, as List of the Noes. contrary to the spirit of the Mortmain Acts in this country. Clause agreed to, as were the remaining Clause agreed to, as was Clause 15. clauses of the Bill. On Clause 16, House resumed. Report to be received. Mr. John S. Wortley moved the Amendment of which he had given notice, with a Excise AND Customs.) House in view to connect the Colleges with religious Committee on the Excise and Customs Act. instruction as much as possible, The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, “ To insert after the words, “lodged and he wished to move certaio Resolutions to boarded therein,' the words, “and also the be embodied in the Bill. The object of provisions and regulations proposed to be inade for securing to the said student the the first was to place grocers who were means of due attendance upon such religious dealers in spirits in Ireland under the same instruction and divine worship as may be ap- supervision of the police authorities as proved by his parents and guardians, and re-other dealers were subject to. The other cognised by the governing body of the Cold Resolution had reference to the importalege.'" tion of spirits from Guernsey and Jersey Amendment agreed to. into this country. At the present time Clause agreed to. those islands enjoyed advantages which On the 19th Clause, were not allowed to any other part of the Mr. Spooner objected to the clause as United Kingdom. The introduction of giving an endowment to any teacher of compound spirits from Scotland and Irewhatever form of belief he might be. It land was prohibited, and that prohibition was not even restricted to the endowment ought to be extended to Jersey and of Christian ministers. Such a conflict of Guernsey. He, therefore, proposed, that religions would tend to infidelity among a duty of 9s. a gallon should be put upon the pupils. spirits imported into England from those Mr. Philip Howard contended that no islands, and a proportionate amount on great evil could arise from the retention of spirits imported into Scotland and Ireland, TELLERS. |
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