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any value, it ought to be adhered to regu- stead of by totally distinct individuals. If larly and in all cases. He was quite it turned out that he had been misinaware that there were many upright per- formed, he would at once give up the Bill sons who were ready to take shares in this and the Company; but he thought so Company, under the idea that they would serious an allegation was one that should be promoting a Bill which was calculated not be allowed to pass without inquiry, to forward a great public work in Ireland, He would say nothing more at present, and open a line of railway through a part except to move that the debate be adof the country where it would prove most journed, with a view to have the evidence beneficial; and it was also an important taken before the Committee printed. He consideration that it would be the means might be permilied to add, ihat with this of giving employment to a vast number Company he had no personal connexion of persons, who, at this season of the whatever. He did not hold one shilling's year, would be otherwise unable to pro- worth of shares, he was sorry to say, in cure work. He was aware that much evil that or any other railway company; he would arise from a rejection of the Bill, had no railway shares whatever, though on these grounds; but still he believed he wished he had ; but, as a person having that a much greater evil would resulı- property in the west of Ireland, he felt considering the circumstances of Ireland, extremely interested in the Dublin and now just commencing great public works Galway Railway. The noble Marquess of this kind, if the Parliament were to de concluded by moving that the debate be part in their favour from the rules which adjourned, in order that an opportunity it had laid down, and which were neces. might be afforded of having the evidence sary to be followed in the proper con- taken before the Committee printed. struction of all railways. Under these Lord Brougham said, that instead of circumstances, he felt obliged to move there being no evidence yet before the that the further consideration of the Bill House, there were upwards of a hundred of the Irish Great Western Railway Com- pages of evidence already printed and pany for the construction of a railway before the House upon this very subject. from Dublin to Galway be put off to this Having been a member of the Comday three months.

mittee, he would state exactly how the The Marquess of Clanricarde said, he matter stood. There was no doubt but had 10 oppose the Motion of his noble that there were two different kinds of Friend ; and if he had no other ground fraud in these cases. In one, the fraud for doing so, he felt that a paragraph in might be committed against ihe Company, the last Report of the Committee would namely, by persons forging nanies, and justify him in requiring an adjournment of writing fictitious and fabricated letters, in this debate. He was informed that the order to get allotments of scrip; and, in sentence to which he alluded was written the other, the fraud would be on the by a noble Lord, under a total misappre- House; namely, by persons connected hension of the facts; and that there was with the Company-he did not mean reno evidence whatever to support it, be- spectable Gentlemen, like some of those cause no such could have been given, as at the head of this Company; but agents nothing of the kind had, he was given to or persons employed under them, getting understand, ever taken place. The sen- up contract lists for the purpose of comtence of the Report to which he alluded plying nominally and fictitiously and frauwas in these words :-“ That systematic dulently with the Standing Orders of Parfraud has been used for the purpose of liament. But he would show their Lordobtaining the necessary number of signa- ships in what way these two classes of lures to the subscription contract.” He fraud became one fraud on the House. could state, without hesitation, that that He now spoke from the evidence. It was was a total misapprehension of the facts. needless to say, that the persons promotThere was no doubt but that gross fraudsing these companies were not those whose had been exercised for the purpose of ob- names appeared at the head of them, very taining scrip and allotments of shares in likely for patriotic and public purposes ; the Company; but as the sentence in the but ihey were a set of harpies who wished Report read, it would appear that these to gamble in the share market, and a set frauds had been perpetrated by the pro- of persons whom he would not otherwise moters and directors of the Company, in- designate but as professional men-such as engineers and land surveyors, who were | Baidron, a silkthrowster in London some great promoters of railway schemes for years ago, but who went to the West their own private purposes, in order to Indies seven or eight years ago ; and obtain employment; and these parties all shares to the amount of 3,5001. 10 Marinterested themselves to promote the Bill garet Meredith, a parish pauper! The in the manner which he would state to the letters were examined in four hoursHouse. They might get up fabricated allowing ten seconds for each letter. They lists by directly fabricating names, by knew that if they wanted to carry their forging signatures, by putting down names Bill they must have a list of a sufficient of persons who had no existence, or who number; for which reason they closed resided in the West Indies, or who were their eyes. Now, if a person had the parish paupers. That was one mode, and means of inquiring, and did not choose to a most clumsy one, of committing fraud ; inquire, he was just to be treated as if he but there was also another mode by which did. He had every reason to believe that fraud could be practised against the House. this was a great and beneficial public It was to issue a prospectus with a flourish- work, that it was wished for by the people ing and puffing account of the scheme of Ireland, and that it was calculated 10 That was about to be brought forward, and confer great benefit on that country; but to declare at the same time that whoever even so, the House was bound to protect applied for shares would have allotments; itself where deliberate fraud was attempted and if the promoters after this took no to be perpetrated against it. He would, steps to ascertain that the applications therefore, heartily support the Motion of which they received were real applications his noble Friend. --if they wilfully shut their eyes against Lord Monteagle said, he had been a attempts at fraud, and received the appli- Member of the Committee, and if their cations, in nine cases out of ten, or per- Lordships would do him the honour of haps in ninety-nine cases out of 100, remembering anything that had fallen without inquiry -- was it not precisely the from one so unimportant as he was, they same thing as if they were themselves would not forget that, when the petition guilty of the fabrications, and were in a in this case had been presented by the conspiracy to deceive the House ? Now, noble Duke, he had declared that he what was the evidence in the present thought it would be better that all the case? The Committee took it all from the railroads in the country should be lost, agents of the Company-from the parties than that the House should refuse to themselves; and yet the facts stated to them inquire into a petition like that, involving were, that 970 persons had applied for an accumulated charge of forgery, fraud, shares, and that of these only 1 1 I gave any and innumerable other offences. That references at all to show whether they were petition had been referred to a Select really existent or solvent persons or not, Committee, and the evidence taken before But was that the way with the London and that Committee had been reported and York Railway Company? No; for, on laid on their Lordships' Table. On that the contrary, the moment they got any evidence he, for one, would have been letters without references they threw them perfectly prepared to support a Motion into the fire. Not so, however, with the for postponing the further consideration Dublin and Galway Company. They of the Bill for six months. He thought received all applications, though only 111 the evidence so clear and conclusive, that of them were accompanied with any re- he would have no hesitation in coming to ferences, and of these they instituted that vote on that occasion. But he wished inquiries into only twenty-nine, out of to call their Lordships' attention to the which fourteen were found to be totally course which the House had taken sub. unknown. They thought it better, there. sequent to that time. If the question had fore, not to inquire further, and actually rested on the evidence, he would, as he gave shares to the other eighty applicants, had before stated, have been prepared to without making a single inquiry into the negative it ; but their Lordships did not references which had been given. Wbat come to that conclusion. They thought was the consequence? They alloted thirty proper to refer the petition, with the shares to Mr. Henry Penten, of Crosby Report and the evidence, to the Select Hall Chambers, who never had an ex- Committee appointed to consider the Bill istence in the world; ten 10 Mr. William i itself-hus showing that they required some further evidence. The Motion of and in doing so, observed that it related to the noble Marquess was, that the House the most difficult and complicated branch of should be put in possession of that addi- their whole inquiry, viz., to procedure. It tional evidence, and he could not help concluded the labours of the Commissioners, thinking that it was consistent with the who were appointed while his noble and course taken by the House itself in re- learned Friend (Lord Brougham) held quiring additional evidence to be taken. the Great Seal. He (the Lord ChancelHe could not apprehend that the evidence lor), therefore, had had nothing to do when produced would affect the final vote with the original choice of the learned to which they should come. Still the fact persons; but he felt it his duty to bear of the House requiring further evidence willing testimony to the admirable manwould seem to imply that the evidence ner in which they had discharged the already had would not be sufficient 10 task entrusted to them. It was impossijustify the rejection of the Bill. He was ble to read their Reports without being inclined, therefore, 10 support the Motion strongly sensible of the industry, intelliof the noble Marquess, more especially as gence, accuracy, and acuteness the Comthere was criminatory matter contained in missioners had displayed. They had the Report.

Treated every part of the subject at once After a short conversation, in which in the most comprehensive and in the the Earl of Besborough, the Marquess of most detailed manner; and if it should Clanricarde, Lord Stanley, Lord Redes-be the pleasure of the House to legislate dale, and Earl Bathurst took part, debate on the criminal law in the next Session, adjourned 10 Monday next; the evidence or on any future occasion, it would be taken before the said Committee ordered quite unnecessary for their Lordships to to be laid before the House.

apply to any other sources of information;

they would find all comprised in the exLUNATIC ASYLUMS AND PAUPER LU- cellent volumes of the Commissioners. Natics Bill.] On the Motion of Lord He, therefore, felt called upon to express Wharncliffe, the Pauper Lunatics and his gratitude as one of the public for the Lunatic Asylums Bill read 2a.

eminent services they had rendered to On the Motion that it be committed to their country; and his admiration of the a Committee of the whole House,

learning, industry, and ability they had Lord Beaumont rose to put questions to

displayed. the noble Lord (Lord Wharncliffe) pre

Lord Brougham considered it unnecesparatory to a Motion that the Bill be sary, and almost impertinent in him, after

what had been so well said by his voble referred to a Select Committee.

Lord Wharncliffe said, that he should and learned Friend, to subjoin a word. be prepared to answer any questions after I was true, that his noble and learned the House was in Committee on the Bill.

Friend had not appointed the CommisLord Beaumont persevered in putting

sioners; but he had added some imporhis questions, founded on certain clauses tant and distinguished Members to the in the Bill, under the expectation that the body; and among them Sir Edward Ryan, House would not resolve itself into the late Chief Justice of Bengal, Mr. Amos,

and Mr. Vaughan Richards, the value of Committee until after the measure had

whose services was incalculable. Much been examined and amended by a Select

was due !o Mr. Starkie, one of the most Commitee. He moved, therefore, that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee eminent criminal lawyers this country had for the purpose.

produced. He had given his aid most

constantly, and with the utmost possible After a remark from Lord Wharncliffe, benefit. The whole of the Reports were

The House divided on Question, that now before the country; they formed a the words proposed to be left out stand complete criminal code, and from them part of the Question : Contents 27; might be formed, without much difficulty, Non-contents 11: Majority 16.

a digest of the criminal law. Little now Resolved in the Affirmative.

remained but for the Legislature to re

duce these invaluable volumes into the CRIMINAL LAW] The Lord Chancellor form of a Statute. Last year he (Lord laid upon the Table the Eighth Report of Brougham) had introduced a Bill founded the Commissioners on the Criminal Law, upon one of the Reports of the Commisa


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sioners, and to them it had been referred | under the revision of the Commissioners. for revision and final opinion. He could He hoped that Ministers would bring it not conclude these observations without forward next Session; and, supported by remarking that, although the Commis. their weight and authority, it could not sioners were now functi officio, yet he fail of success. If they did not, he gave must implore Her Majesty's Government, notice that if he were spared, he would, and especially bis noble and learned and his only doubt was, whether the sysFriend on the Woolsack, not to omit this tem of our criminal law ought or ought opportunity of securing the services of not, like that of France, to be divided into these Commissioners (others might per- two parts, one of which was called “Le haps be found, but none could be betier), Code Final," and the other “ Le Code de by forming them into a board for the sys- Procédure Criminel.” tematic revision of all the Statutes sub- Report ordered to lie on the Table. mitted to Parliament, including, also, all House adjourned. Private Acts, in whose dark corners much that was highly objectionable often lurked, and remained undetected until too late.

HOUSE OF COMMONS, Nothing could more tend to facilitate the

Friday, July 25, 1845. labours of the Judges than such a simpli.

MINUTES.] New WRIT. fication of the criminal law as might now

For the City of Hereford, 2

Edward Bolton Clive, Esq., deceased. be accomplished; and he threw out the Bills. Public.—10. Sewerage, Drainage, etc., of Towns ; proposition of a board for the considera- Fees (Criminal Proceedings). tion of Ministers during the ensuing long Reported - Documentary Evidence; Assignment of Terms;

Death by Accidents Compensation; Deodands Abolition vacation.

(No. 2); Libel; Church Building Acts Amendment; Tax. Lord Campbell, concurring entirely in

ing Master, Court of Chancery (Ireland); Granting of

Leases ; Real Property (No. 3). the opinions just expressed, of the value

3o. and passed :--County Rates. of these Reports, expressed a wish that Private. -1°. Severne's Estate.

90. Sampson's Estate ; Duke of Bridgewater's Estate ; they mighi not, like other blue books, be

Dick's Estate ; Marquess of Donegal's Estate; Winchester Taid upon the Table, and allowed to remain

College Estate; Bowes's Estate ; Marsh's (or Coxhead's) there until they were covered with dust.

Reported. — Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge and There was not a country of the Continent

Huntingdon Line). that had not had its criminal law reduced 3o. and passed :--Ellerker's Estate. into form, and published for she benefit of Petitions Presented. By Mr. Lockhart, from Inver

leithen, and Traquair, for Better Observance of the Lord's those who were either 10 administer or to

Day.-By Mr. Darby, from Clergy of Lewes, against obey it. There was now no reason why Union of Saint Asaph and Bangor.-By Mr. C. Buller,

from Stockholders of New South Wales, for Repeal of the people of this Empire should not en

certain Acts relating to that Colony.-By Mr. Denison, joy the same advantage; and he trusted

from Relatives of Settlers in New Zealand, for a Change that this just reproach upon our legisla- of Policy towards that Colony.-By Mr. Darby, Viscount tion would soon be wiped away, and that

Newport, Mr. Newdegate, and Mr. Spooner, for Relief

from Agricultural Taxation.-By Mr. Darby, from several a criminal code would be prepared for places, for Repeal of the Malt Duty.-By Viscount JoceGreat Britain.

lyn, from Belfast, for Alteration of Law relating to Ap

praisers (Ireland).-By Mr. G. W. Hope, from SouthThe Lord Chancellor added, that when

ampton, for Establishment of County Courts.-By Mr. he said a few minutes ago that the Com- Bankes, from several places, in favour of the Ten Hours missioners had closed their labours, he

System in factories. meant only to refer to the object for

The House met at twelve o'clock. which they were first appointed. They had, however, other matters before them, CORPORATE PRIVILEGES (SCOTLAND).] particularly a Bill in which a noble and Mr. Hume put the question of which he learned Lord now gazing at him felt a had given notice, namely, what was the peculiar interest. The Commissioners were intention of the Government as to the realso considering the manner in which the moval of the vexatious and exclusive pricountry might practically avail itself of vileges of trading, and the exercise of their Reports.

crafts enjoyed by the incorporated trades Lord Brougham agreed, that it was in the burghs of Scotland ? most unfit to allow these Reports to be- The Lord Advocate said, the Report of come covered with dust: in order 10 pre- the Commissioners inclined towards the vent it, he had last year reduced one of abolition of these exclusive privileges ; and the Reports of the Commissioners into as great weight was due to their opinion, the form of a Bill, which was at present it had made a strong impression on his



mind that there was not that necessity for monastic orders were not affected by the these privileges which once existed ; he enactments of the Bill. There was also thought that, to some extent, inconveni- another point as to which it was in

was caused by them. On the other tended to vary the enactments of the Act hand, it was proper he should state, that of last Session. By that Act, the Law of interests of a charitable nature had grown Mortmain was extended to Ireland, where, up which were connected with the preser- in fact, it operated with more weight 'than vation of these rights; but the Report did it did in this country ; so that it was imnot state what was their extent. It would possible for a party to leave any quantity be necessary to be cautious in dealing with of land, however small, for the site of a such matters.

chapel, glebe house, or hospital. The

Government proposed to relax this proviTHE CHARITABLE BEQUESTS Act (Ire- sion 30 as to allow land, not exceeding five LAND).] Mr. Sheil begged to put a ques. acres, for instance, to be left for such purtion to the Home Secretary, of which he poses. He hoped the right hon. Gentlehad given him notice. His noble Friend the man would think this answer sufficiently Member for Arundel had on a former oc- explicit. casion put a question to the same effect; Subject at an end. but the answer then given to him by the right hon. Baronet was not considered in FREE CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.) Mr. P. Ireland to be as explicit as it should have M. Stewart rose, pursuant to notice, to call been: he, therefore, wished to ask the the attention of the House to the petition of right hon. Baronet whether it were the the Rev. Patrick Macfarlan, Moderator of intention of the Government, early in the the General Assembly of the Free Church next Session, to bring in a Bill to amend of Scotland (presented June 24), complainthe Charitable Bequests Act ?

ing of the refusal of sites to congregations Sir J. Graham said, he was most anxious of that Church. He stated that the petithat the answer should be explicit. It was tioners represented that the General Asexpedient that it should be so; and he sembly of the Free Church had the spirithanked the hon. Gentleman for having tual guidance of one-third of the populagiven him notice of the question. There tion of Scotland; that 470 of the clergy were two points as to which he proposed of the Church of Scotland had left it for to alter the Bill next Session. The first the Free Church, which now had 620 related to matters affecting the doctrine and clergy and 800 congregations ; that discipline of the Roman Catholic Church. 726,0001. had been subscribed for the By the Act as it now stood, if there was a general purposes of the separation, of bequest in favour of a dignitary of the Ro- which 300,0001. had been appropriated to man Catholic Church, or of a parish priest, the building of churches. They further and a dispute arose as to the title of the party stated that the landlords refused to allow claiming it, such a case was now, as the them to purchase sites for their churches. Act stood, referred to the decision of the Owing to the land being in large quanCommissioners. It appeared, however, tities in few hands, this refusal operated as that by a canon of the Roman Catholic a great hardship upon them. The congreChurch, such a question must be decided gations had no place in which to meet for by an authority exclusively ecclesiastic. worship, so that they were obliged to go The Government intended to remove that into the high roads or under the hedgest o difficulty by making the certificate of the perform their devotions. All that the ecclesiastical authority conclusive as to the petitioners wanted was permission to purrights of the parties. The next point as to chase land for sites for their churches at a which the Government proposed to make fair and equitable price, but this was rean alteration, was this :-ihe monastic fused to them. The hon. Member proorders in Ireland considered themselves in- ceeded to mention some cases where the jured by one of the provisoes at the end of refusal of sites had operated as a hardship the 15th Clause. He had stated when he

on congregations. In one place in Rossa introduced the Bill, that it was not in- shire, where the parish occupied an area of tended, either directly or indirectly, to twenty miles, such was the spiritual destiaffect the position of the monastic orders. tution of a portion of the district, that the Whether that was or was not carried out Government had gone to the expense of in the Bill, it was the intention of the erecting a church. There was a case in Government explicitly to declare that the point in a locality which must be known VOL. LXXXII. { Series}

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