TELLERS.

Denison, E. B. Packe, C, W. paid them, of paying certain officers of cer.
Escott, E.
Palmer, R.

tain courts. He trusted that after the large Flower, Sir J. Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.

majority by which the Bill passed its second Gardner, J. D. Rashleigh, W.

reading, it would be allowed to proceed in Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Rolleston, Col.

Committee, when, if any suggestions were Graham, rt. hon. Sird. Sibthorp, Col. Greene, T.

Smith, rt.hon. T.B.C. made which would facilitate its practical Hamilton, C. J. B. Spooner, R.

working, he would be happy to give them Henley, J. W. Thesiger, Sir F. every consideration. The course of criminal Ilerbert, rt, hov. S. Vesey, hon. T. justice should be free from so foul a stain Lincoln, Earl of Wellesley, Lord C. as that which now disgraced it ; and until Mackenzie, W.F. Yorke, I. R.

it were free from such stain, neither would McNeill, D. Young, J.

the laws nor their administrators be, as they Masterman, J.

should be, respected. Moffatt, G.

Sir J. Graham said, that his hon. and Mundy, E. M. Scott, F. Nicholl, rt. hov. J. Campbell, H.

learned Friend referred to the majority by which the second reading of the Bill was

carried. He had voted with that majority; FEES (CRIMINAL COURTS) Bill.) On but so voted in order that the Bill might the Order of the day being read that the

go into Committee, without pledging himHouse go into Committee on this Bill,

self to its support in its present shape. His Mr. B. Escott said, that all that was hon. and learued Friend went into Comsought by this Bill was to prevent an ac- mittee, resolved to maintain the Bill in its cused party from being put to the necessity present form, including exemption from of buying the right of pleading, and the fees on conviction as well as on acquittal. right of trial, by the payment of exorbi- He was opposed to all useless legislation, tant fees. He believed that the law, as it and his hon. and learned Friend had stated at present stood, was sufficient to protect that the exaction of the fees was at present parties accused, if they were only aware of illegal. He doubted the soundness of this their right. But it was the practice in law, especially as regarded persons charged many quarters to refuse the plea of not with misdemeanors out on bail; these guilty to an individual charged with a mis- were obliged to pay fees, and, so far, he demeanor, unless he paid the fee demanded, was willing to amend the law. To that and to send him back again and bring him limited extent he was prepared to go, but up at a subsequent Sessions, until at last not as far as the Bill went. In his view, the fee was extorted, or the individual was every person convicted ought to be comallowed to take his trial because he was pelled to pay at least part of the expenses. utterly unable to pay. In thirty-two coun- Lord ). Munners was in favour of goties of England and Wales this practice ing into the Committee, in order to make had already been abolished, and it appeared the Bill as unobjectionable and useful as that it was only in twenty counties that it possible. was still permitted to exist. He wanted Mr. Palmer expressed his concurrence that to be declared by the House to be the with the hon. Member for Winchester, as law, and that, throughout the whole coun- regarded fees on acquittal, but several try, the same practice should be carried charges ought not to be looked upon as into operation, as was already carried out fees. in the majority of the counties. They Dr. Bowring agreed with the hon. Mem. never could get justice done in this matter ber for Winchester, inasmuch as no fees until they decided that no payment was ought to be charged either upon conviction to be demanded from any person charged or acquittal. with a crime, but the penalty which the Mr. Darby was disposed to get rid of court which tried him had a right to im- | the Bill altogether, rather than include in pose as a punishment for the offence, or as it all the provisions it now contained. All damages to the party aggrieved. Why, he the costs allowed by 7 and 8 George IV. would ask, should this Bill be opposed ? were injudiciously abolished by this meaIt was simply a measure of common justice sure. He moved that the House should to a person charged with crime. Money resolve itself into a Committee on this day was at the root of much of the opposition three months. which this Bill met with in the country. Sir J. Graham gave notice that he Under the present system, the fees formed would to morrow (this day) move for leave a convenient mode, except to the party that to bring in a Bill to abolish fees on plead

ing and acquittal in criminal cases, if this tics; Poor Law Amendment (Scotland); Highways;

Masters and Workmen. measure were rejected.

Reported. - Unclaimed Stock and Dividends; Spirits Mr. B. Escolt agreed to the proposition (Ireland); Excise Duties on Spirits (Channel Isof the Home Secretary.

lands). Amendment withdrawn.

3a. and passed :--Recognizances for Costs in Bills; Geolo

gical Survey; Waste Lands (Australia). Order for Committee discharged. Bill Private.-14. South Eastern Railway (Deal Extension); withdrawn.

Bolton and Leigh, Kenyon and Leigh Junction, North
Union, Liverpool and Manchester, and Grand Junction

Railways Amalgamation.
HEALTII Of Towns.] The Earl of

za. Duddeston and Nechells Improvement; Manchester Lincoln said, he had had a Notice on the

a

and Leeds Railway. Books of the House for some weeks past,

Reported.-South Eastern Railway (Tunbridge to Tunbridge

Wells); Birmingham and Gloucester Railway (Stoke to move for leave to introduce a measure Branch); London and South Western Railway; Epping with reference to the health of towns, Railway : Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings Railway (Has

tings, Rye, and Ashford Extension); Gravesend and Rofounded on the Report of the Commission

chester Railway; South Eastern Railway (Greenwich appointed two years ago, which Report Extension); Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton was laid on the Table in February last. Railway ; Oxford and Rugby Railway; Rothwell

Prison. He had been most anxious to give a general

36. and passed : --Londonderry and Coleraine Railway; outline of the measure; but at this late Yolker Road (No. 2); Wakefield, Pontefract, and Goole hour of the night, and at this advanced Rai way; Severne's Estate. period of the Session, he thought it would PETITIONS PRESENTED. From Inhabitants of Finsbury,

for the Appointment of a Committee to Inquire into the be better to ask leave to introduce the Bill

past and present Condition and Treatment of Lunatics without

any comment. Had time allowed, in England and Wales, whether Pauper or otherwise. he would have taken the opportunity, on

From South and North Leith,' against the Poor Law

Amendment (Scotland) Bill. From Inhabitants of Port introducing the Bill, of giving an ample Phillip (New South Wales), for the Adoption of Measures statement of its details. Such a stateinent to obtain for the District of Port Phillip, an entire Scpa

ration from the Government of the Colony,--By Lord would, however, occupy considerable time;

Cottenham, from W. H. Miller, Esq., of Britwell House, and if he were to postpone the Bill to a Bucks, praying to be hcard by Counsel against parts of the future day he could not expect, at this Poor Law Amendment (Scotland) Bill.-From Presbytery period of the Session, to gain the attention

of Dunoon, for Improving the Condition of Schoolmasters

(Scotland).-Froin Stockholders, and others, of District of the House to the dry details of a measure of Maitland, for Alteration of Law relating to Terriof this description. He would, therefore, torial Revenue, and Disposal of Lands, etc. (New South

Wales). merely move that the Bill be read a first time and printed, in order that it might be considered during the recess, and brought

Privilege.] Lord Brougham preforward at an early period of the next Ses- sented a petition from James Thomas sion. He hoped the public would examine Russell, of No. 37, Percy-street, Bedfordthe provisions of the Bill, and that its de- square, solicitor, complaining that two wittails would be fully canvassed. He trusted nesses who had been examined before the also that hon. Members of that House who Committee of their Lordships' House on represented large constituencies would de Gaming, had given false and slanderous vote some attention to the measure, and evidence against bim, to the great detrin make such suggestions to the Government ment of his character, and of the characters as they might deem advisable. The noble of all those connected with him; and Lord then moved for leave to bring in a praying that, as he found it would be a Bill " for the improvement of the sewerage breach of the privileges of their Lordships' and drainage of towns and populous dis- House to bring an action at law against tricts, and for making provision for an am- those parties, soine opportunity might be ple supply of water, and for otherwise pro- afforded him of vindicating his character. moting the health and convenience of the As the Session was now so near its close, inhabitants.”

he would move that the petition do lie on Leave given.

the Table, with the intention of moving Bill brought in and read a first time.

early in the ensuing Session that it be Ordered to be printed.

referred to a Select Committee. House adjourned at a quarter before two The Lord Chancellor said, he should be o'clock.

very ready to assist his noble and learned HOUSE OF LORDS,

Friend in investigating this subject; but

he wished to remind their Lordships that Friday, July 25, 1845.

the Committee alluded to in the petition MINUTES.] Sat first.—The Lord Foxford, after the Death

had sai last Session, and the petitioner of his Grandfather. BILLS. Public.-24. Lunatic Asylums and Pauper Luna / had allowed the matter to lie over without

taking any notice of it for a whole year, induced to purchase in consequence of and until after this House had decided the Report of the Board of Trade being in that it would r.ot allow him to go to law. its favour, and praying to be heard at the He ihought their Lordships could draw a bar of their Lordships' House on his own natural and almost necessary conclusion behalf, and on behalf of other sharefrom that circumstance.

holders. Lord Brougham said, the petition stated Lord Brougham said, the petitioner was that it was only on Saturday last that a member of his own prosession, and a the petitioner first saw a copy of the evi- most respectable gentleman, and he (Lord dence of which he complained.

Brougham) was exceedingly sorry that he The Lord Chancellor : But he does not had not invested his money in some other state that he did not previously know of funds. But perhaps the Board of Trade the evidence having been given.

would think it their duty to grant him Lord Brougham said, the law allowed some relief. a party four years to bring his action, and The Earl of Dalhousie said, the Report he would humbly submit that their Lord of the Board of Trade in favour of the ships were not justified in not merely line was a perfectly good Report. With shutting out an aggrieved party from re- respect to the funds under the control of dress in a court of law, but also in refusiog the Board, he regretted to say they were him any other relief.

very limited indeed, but he should be Lord Campbell said, he was inclined to happy to have the advice of the noble and think that Russell was the name of a per- learned Lord as to their disposal. son who had been subjected to a very rig- The Earl of Besborough said, in moving orous cross-examination at the bar of their on a former occasion the second reading Lordships' House by his noble and learned of this Bill, he did so for the purpose of Friend (Lord Brougham) on the very sub- giving an opportunity of having it referred ject alluded to in the petition. He would, to a Select Committee, who would report however, strongly support the Motion of on all the remaining allegations against his noble and learned Friend for inquiry. it. Before making the Motion, of which

After a few words from Lords Brougham he had given notice on the preceding day, and Stradbroke,

it was necessary that he should call their The Earl of Wicklow said, he thought, Lordships' attention to the further Report no matter what the character of an india which had been presented from the Comvidual might be, the House had a right to mittee by the noble Lord opposite (Earl give him an opportunity of clearing his Bathurst). After reading some passages character. In reply to what had fallen from the Report, describing the course of from his noble Friend on the Woolsack he systematic fraud that in the opinion of wished to remark, that any delay to which the Committee had been practised in getthe petitioner might have been a party ting up the subscription contract deed, should be calculated, not from the time the noble Earl proceeded to say that he that the Committee had made their Re- knew it would be maintained that the port, but from the period when, their same system had been adopted in respect Lordships having consented to give a copy to many other railways, indeed in most of the Report to the Commons, the latter other railways. He did not, however, House had thought proper to sell and think, that that should induce their Lordpromulgale the libel which it contained. ships to pass over a case of this kind,

The Lord Chancellor said, he had no which had been substantiated by two desire to oppose the Motion for inquiry, Committees of their Lordships' House, but he had merely wished to draw their even if all the railway projects which had Lordships' attention to a point of date.

passed through Parliament had been got Petition read, and ordered to lie on the up in the same manner. It was true that Table.

the promoters of this railway now stale

their readiness to put in so many solvent IRISH GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY names in their deed as would make

up

the Bill.] The Earl of Hardwicke presented number required by Parliament. But a petition from John Frederick Stanford, even that circumstance could not, he of Langham-place, esquire, stating that thought, alter the decision to which their he was a holder of shares in the Dublin Lordships should come, as, if the Standing and Galway Railway, which he had been Order respecting the contract deed was of

taking any notice of it for a whole year, | induced to purchase in consequence cí and until after this House had decided the Report of the Board of Trade being is that it would cot allow him to go to law. its favour, and praying to be heard at the He thought their Lordships could draw a bar of their Lordships' House on his on natural and almost necessary conclusion behalf, and on behalf of other sherfrom that circumstance.

holders. Lord Brougham said, the petition stated Lord Brougham said, the petitioner va that it was only on Saturday last that a member of his own profession

, and ! the petitioner first saw a copy of the evi- most respectable gentleman, and he (Lond dence of which he complained. Brougham) was exceedingly sorry

that he The Lord Chancellor: But he does not had not invested his money in some wild state that he did not previously know of funds. But perhaps the Board of Trade the evidence having been given. would think it their duty to grant din

Lord Brougham said, the law allowed some relief. a party four years to bring his action, and The Earl of Dalhousie said, the Report he would humbly submit that their Lord of the Board of Trade in favour of the ships were not justified in not merely line was a perfectly good Report. The shutting out an aggrieved party from re- respect to the funds under the control of dress in a court of law, but also in refusing the Board, he regretted to say they were him any other relief.

very limited indeed, but he should be Lord Campbell said, he was inclined to happy to have the advice of the noble and think that Russell was the name of a per- learned Lord as to their disposal. son who bad been subjected to a very rig- The Earl of Besborough said, in moricz orous cross-examination at the bar of their on a former occasion the second reading Lordships' House by his noble and learned of this Bill, he did so for the purpose

of Frieod (Lord Brougham) on the very sub. giving an opportunity of having it referired ject alluded to in the petition. He would, to a Select Committee, who would report however, strongly support the Motion of on all the remaining allegations agaasa his noble and learned Friend for inquiry. it

. Before making ihe Motion, of which After a few words from Lords Brougham he had given notice on the preceding day and Stradbroke,

it was necessary that he should call thet The Earl of Wicklow said, he thought, Lordships'attention to the further Report no matter what the character of an indi" which had been presented from the Cosvidual might be, the House had a right 10 mittee by the noble Lord opposite (Enı give him an opportunity of clearing his Bathurst). After reading some passare character. In reply to what had fallen from the Report, describing the course of from his noble Friend on the Woolsack he systematic fraud that in the opinion wished to remark, that any delay to which the Committee had been practised in gelo the petitioner might have been a party ting up the subscription contrace deel, should be calculated, not from sthe time the noble Earl proceeded to say that he that the Committee had made their Re- knew it would be maintained that ibe port, but from the period when, their same system bad been adopted in respect Lordsbips having consented to give a copy to many other railways, indeed in most of the Report to the Commons, the latier other railways. He did not, howerer, House had thought proper to sell and think, that that should induce their Lord. promulgate the libel which it contained. Ships to pass orer a case of this kind,

The Lord Chancellor said, he had no which had been substantiated by 199 desire to oppose the Motion for inquiry, Committees of their Lordships

' Houx, but he had merely wished 10 draw their even if all the railway projects which had Lordships' attention to a point of date. passed through Parliament had been gut

Petition read, and ordered to lie on the up in the same manner. It was trae lbal Table.

the promoters of this railway now stale

their readiness to put in so many Irisu Great WESTERN Railwar names in their deed as would make up the Bill.] The Earl of Hardwicke presented number required by Parliament. Bai a petition from John Frederick Stanford, eren that circumstance could not be of Langham-place, esquire, stating that thought, alter the decision to which their he was a holder of shares in the Dublin Lordships should come, as, if the Sianam and Galway Railway, which he had been Order respecting the contract deed was of

taking any notice of it for a whole year, i and until after this House had decided t that it would rot allow him to go to law.li He thought their Lordships could draw a Ł natural and almost necessary conclusion from that circumstance.

b Lord Brougham said, the petition stated that it was only on Saturday last that a the petitioner first saw a copy of the evidence of which he complained.

1 The Lord Chancellor: But he does not state that he did not previously know off the evidence having been given.

Lord Brougham said, the law allowed si a party four years to bring his action, and he would humbly submit that their Lord-o ships were not justifier in not merely li shutting out an aggrieved party from redress in a court of law, but also in refusing Il him any other relief.

Lord Campbell said, he was inclined to h think that Russell was the name of a per

le son who had been subjected to a very rigorous cross-examination at the bar of their o Lordships' House by his noble and learnedol Friend (Lord Brougham) on the very sub-g ject alluded to in the petition. He would, to however, strongly support the Motion of ou his noble and learned Friend for inquiry. it

After a few words from Lords Brougham h and Stradbroke,

it The Earl of Wicklow said, he thought, L no matter what the character of an indi- w vidual might be, the House had a right to me give him an opportunity of clearing his B character. In reply to what had fallen ir from his noble Friend on the Woolsack he sy wished to remark, that any delay to which it the petitioner might have been a party ti should be calculated, not from the time it that the Committee had made their Renk port, but from the period when, their se Lordships having consented to give a cops to of the Report to the Commons, the latter o House had thought proper to sell and promulgate the libel which it contained.

The Lord Chancellor said, he had no desire to oppose the Monon for inquiry, v but he had merely wished to draw their Lordships' attention to a point or dare.

Petition read, and ordered to be on the + Table.

IRISH GREAT WESTERN RAWAT But The Earl of Harwinckr presented in a petition from John Frederick Stanton, of Langham-place, esquire, stating that he was å holder of shares in the Dablin? and Galway Railway, which he had been la