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fulfil the engagements by which they were afraid we shall find the result of this will bound. But all our inducements—all our be, not to put an end to the Slave Trade arguments—all our persuasions, were ut- of the Brazils, but to drive it to take shelterly fruitless; and whenever the subject ter under some other flag. It is quite of the Slave Trade has been discussed clear, that if the Right of Search be given here, the notoriously bad faith of the Bra- up with France, and if it do not exist with zilian Government has been on all hands America, that the Slave Trade to Brazil admitted and deplored. Therefore, the will be carried on under the flags of question is, are they to be permitted to France and of the United States. Nevercarry on their Slave Trade with perfect theless, it is, perhaps, a point gained to impunity ? or are you to take, in order to drive it out from under the flag of Brazil, prevent them, the only means which the if such should be the effect of the Treaty. Treaties you have passed, place within It seems to me, however, that a remark of your power ? Considering the matter in the hon. Member for Manchester was not this light, I am prepared to share in any understood by the right hon. Baronet, as responsibility which, as an individual it was not adverted to bg him, while he Member of Parliament, may accrue to me, answered an observation which my hon. in giving my support to this measure. Friend did not make. I understood my At the same time, I must admit that there hon. Friend to have put a particular quesis some force in the observations of my tion ; and if he did not, I beg to put it hon. Friend (Mr. M. Gibson), that if the myself

. The Treaty with the Brazils Government had not taken that injudicious says, that the subjects of Brazil who may, course which they have thought it right to directly or indirectly, be concerned in car. pursue, with respect to the Government of rying on the Slave Trade, shall be deemed the Brazils, as to the Sugar Duties, las pirates ; while the Bill before us merely think it is very possible that we should not applies to ships, not to subjects : and, if be placed in the situation in which we now I understood my hon. Friend, he alluded tind ourselves ; because, Sir, it is certainly to this discrepancy, and expressed a wish true, that that course was calculated to to know what were the grounds on which produce a great deal of unnecessary irrita. Government, proposing as it does to carry tion in the Brazils-irritation which may out the stipulations of the Treaty, introhave led the Government of that country duced a measure different from that which to put an end to the Treaty of 1817. The these stipulations would allow them to argument of my hon. Friend the Member propose. It appears to me, that the Bill for Manchester, however, that you cannot falls short of what the Treaty would jusexpect Brazil to submit to what we now tify. Government, in acting under the propose to do, because England would not Treaty, might deal with the subjects of submit, were any Foreign Power to as- Brazil, whilst the Bill is limited to dealsume the right of exercising on our coasts ing with ships and cargoes; and it may that sort of inspection and police, which be remarked, that the contiscation of veswe propose to establish on those of Brazil sels and goods must be incidental to the -I say, Sir, this argument does not ap- crime of piracy committed by the owners pear to have much weight; and for this of the one, and the navigators of the other ; reason-ihe Government of the Brazils is and, therefore, surely you are as much bound by Treaty to submit; and I hope justified in punishing the latier, as in exand trust, that were we so bound, we tending the consequence of their crimet o should also submit. Indeed, I am con- matters contingent on the offence. Sir, I vinced we should; for I have such an with to take this opportunity of recalling opinion of the honour of this country, that to the attention of Government one or two I know we should submit to any incon- points which I more than once endeavoured venience, however galling to the national to impress upon their notice, and which I pride, were we bound by stipulation to do hope will receive their attention during so. Therefore, in asking Brazil to fulfil the recess. I would advert for a moment her engagements, we are only urging what to the Slave Trade carried on upon the we ourselves would consent to do, under coast of Muscat. I adverted some few days converse circumstances. I fear, however, ago to a Treaty signed by an officer of the at the same time, that what the hon. French Government, which seems to me Member for Gateshead anticipates, in re- calculated to lead to a renewal of the Slave gard to the effect of the Treaty, may, in a Trade from Zanzibar to the Isle of Bourbon. great degree, take place. I am very much | Since then, I see that the Duc de Broglie,


in the French Chamber, has stated that, ask, too, whether the Governors of Cuba the Treaty did appear to contain some and of Surinam have been compelled by our stipulations liable to that accusation; and Government to receive the communications on that ground, some of these clauses which our Consuls and Commissioners are were not ratified. But if anybody will ordered by those who have sent them out, look to the Treaty which has been publish to make ed to-day in the Anti-Slavery Reporler,

Sir R. Peel : We have made represenit will be evident that it is hardly possible tations to Spain upon the subject, insisting to ratify any portion of the Treaty with upon the right of our Consuls and Comout leading to the encouragement of the missioners to be heard. Slave Trade, and particularly of the land Viscount Palmerston : I am only putSlave Trade, on the eastern coast of Africa. ting the right hon. Baronet in mind of the For if you engage or hire persons who are matter, as, amid the multiplicity of affairs in a state of slavery such as exists in Zan- to be attended to by a Government, it zibar if you hire and carry them to might be left to pass unnoticed. I know another country, their places must be sup- that the Governor of Surinam did not go plied, and will be supplied, by means of so far as the Governor of Cuba. He took the internal Slave Trade of the country; no notice of the representations of our and, therefore, I do hope that the Go- agents, and in the whole year 1844 no vernment will make those friendly repre- answer has been received from him to any sentations to the Goveroment of France of their applications. I am sure, then, which they are undoubtedly entitled to that the right hon. Baronet will feel that make, in order to urge the latter Cabinet our officers are, both in Cuba and Surinam, to consider whether this Treaty, if acted in a position quite inconsistent with due upon, will not have the effect of encou- respect for the Government which they raging those abominations of the Slave represent. There is another point I wish Trade which France-in common with to mention, relative to those negroes conevery other civilized nation-must wish veyed into Surinam. Those negroes have to see abolished. I think, however, that been so carried away against the law of our Government ought to come to the England. The consequence was that consideration of the matter with clean they became forfeited to the Crown, and hands; and I should recommend them to the result of that forfeiture was their freereconsider the orders issued by the Go. dom. Such being the case, then, I say vernor of the Mauritius, giving sanction that no Foreign Power can have a right to to similar proceedings for the supply of retain British subjects in a state of slavery, labourers in that Colony. There is cer- unless they have some legal right on which tainly this distinction between the two to ground that act of theirs. But in this cases--slavery does not exist in the Mau- case, the subjects of Spain and of Holland, ritius, and, therefore, you can take care who purchased those slaves, purchased that the negroes brought thither shall be them illegally; and I do hold that these secured in the condition of free men; while British subjects are entitled to be rescued slavery does exist in Bourbon, and labour- from the state of bondage in which they ers imported there, necessarily sink into the are now held, by the interference of the condition of slaves. But if the supply of British Government. I hope the subject labourers to Bourbon, give encouragement may receive the fullest and most liberal to the trade in Africa—a trade attended consideration of the Law Officers of the with so much cruelty-might not Govern. Crown, and if they feel that the Dutch and ment urge upon the Imaum of Muscat Spanish Governments have not an unquessome arrangement to mitigate those hor- tionable right to retain these negroes in rors, of which the other night I read a de bondage, that Her Majesty's Government scription, taken from that part of Sir will feel that, not under any particular Fowell Buxton's work on the transport of law, but under the general international negroes from San Sebastian to Zanzibar ? rights of countries, they will be enabled I am sure that if Government were to ex- to demand that these British subjects press a strong feeling to the Imaum, much shall be set at liberty. Then there are good might be done. Sir, I do trust that the Emancipados. No progress has been Government will not agree to permit the made in giving them that freedom which Governors of Cuba and Surinam to send to by Treaty, and the decree of the Mised Coventry our Consuls and Slave Trade Commis-ion, they are entitled to. When Commissioners in those countries. I may General Valdez was in Cuba, from 1,200



to 1,100 were set free. There remained | we shall have the Return which last year I slaves, some 2,000 or 3,000. It was then moved for; so that we may have some betstated, that 10 liberate them all would be ter grounds to go upon, as we shall have productive of inconvenience to the Colony. when we know how many negroes are imThe excuse was quite futile ; but so long ported from time to time into America. as the Cuba authorities went on increasing May I hope that the industry of the Fothe number of those to whom were granted reign Office shall be put in motion, and certificates of freedom, there appeared little that a Return moved for in July, 1844, reason why the Government of this coun- may be presented in February, 1846 ? try should press the matter. This progress Sir Robert Peel was understood to say, has, now, however, been stayed. General that if the noble Lord could point out the O'Donnell has ceased to grant these certi- way in which the Returns could be made ficates of freedom; and seeing that such is up, he would request Mr. Mandeville (as the case, I hope that the Government will we understood) to use every exertion to insist upon the virtual freedom of these supply the information. He could assure nominally emancipated slaves. There is the noble Lord that he hoped it would be another point on which I am anxious to fortlicoming, and he thought that Mr. touch---namely, the case of those negroes Mandeville, whose diligence and ability introduced into Cuba in violation of Span- | the noble-Lord was well acquainted with, ish law. It was on that question that the would be able to satisfy him that it was late Government proposed to that of Spain not from inadvertency or negligence that a Convention, giving a Mixed Commission the delay in the production of the Returns Court power to inquire into the matter. had arisen. The Spanish Government objected, and Mr. Gibson wished to explain. What our Government acquiesced in the objec- he meant to have said, and which seemed tion. I think that their doing so was un- to be understood, was, that the Executive fortunate. We have, by Treaty, the right in Brazil having declared traffic in slaves to demand that these begroes should be piracy, but there being no law there to admitted to the freedom to which they that effect, it was questionable whether are entitled. At all events, we are bound

we could carry into effect in English to press the point, that all negroes


courts such a law against Brazilian subforward imported into Cuba should be

jects. free; and I am sure that if the point

House resolved itself into Committee were pressed on Spain, it would go fur.

on the Bill. ther than anything else to bring it to a faithful execution of the Treaty as it

On the 1st Clause, stands. I repeat, that in my opinion, some

Captain Pechell said, he hoped the such arrangement might be made. Sir, Government would not be unmindful of I hope that the Slave-Trade Papers of the officers who had done such important next year may justify, more than the services in the Slave Trade. Lieutenant Papers of this year, the expectations held Wilson, of the Wasp, had been on a raft out by the right hon. Baronet at the head for twenty-one days, and be endured such of the Government that we should find sufferings, that he (Captain Pechell) consatisfactory proof of the activity and en- sidered him worthy of ihe highest reward. ergy of the Ministry upon the subject. / Six only out of thirteen escaped. When they talk of the Slave Trade, they

Sir R. Peel said, there really must be say everything which a man can desire; a limit to the recommendations of promobut when we look to what they have done, Lions in that House. He had undertaken I am sorry to say that their acts fall very that in the case of the very gallant confar short of their promises. And as people duct of Mr. Robertson, a promotion have sometimes the habit of judging men should take place. But he should reby what they do rather then by what they commend that, as a rule, the question of say, I am afraid, as the matter now stands, promotion should be left to the decision that it is impossible to give them much of the Crown. credit for any active zeal in furthering an Sir G. Cockburn said, there was a clear object so dear to every good and every rea- distinction between the two cases cited. sonable man. I hope, however, that the The promotion of one was for an act of points which I have urged, will not escape extreme valour, which, if it had been their attention ; and I may be also per- imitated, the disasters which had taken mitted to express a hope that next year place might not have occurred. The


other was the case of an officer who, by Viscount Palmerston : The memory of an accident of the elements, was placed my hon. Friend inust be shorter than I in great peril. No doubt he deserved could bave supposed, for the substance of credii, and bis case in all its bearings the instructions to Mr. Ellis were staled would be considered by the Admiralıy; at the time. I think, what was stated but it was quite distinct from the former. was, that it was intended to propose to

Mr. Hawes was anxious to know whe- the Brazils, some law which, by internal ther the Government bad any objection operation, should modify the condition to produce the instructions given to Mr. of slavery. There was proposed by Mr. Ellis. The right hon. Gentleman was Ellis as a sine qua non, some law apjustified in proposing this Bill; but it plicable to the condition of slavery, and was in consequence of the failure of ihe the Brazils began by a condition sine negotiations it became necessary. It was qua non, inadmissible by any negoci. important to know, then, what the in- ator for this country; and, therefore, structions were which led to the first rup. Mr. Ellis never found himself in a sitture. Those who were better informed uation which would enable him 10 state than he was, anticipated a still greater officially the condition which we wished to alienation of the Brazilian Government, impose. Most unquestionably I always in consequence of the present proposal. considered such a condition a very injuParliament had, therefore, a right to know dicious step on the part of our Governthe origin of the evil.

ment. We were perfectly entitled to Sir R. Peel said, the House had always press measures which would cause them that degree of confidence in the Minister, to fulfil their

engagements to put an end as not to press for the production of doc- to the Slave Trade; but we had no 'Treaty uments which he pledged himself could rights to stand on which would justify us not be given without detriment to the in calling for internal regulations as 10 public service. He did not think these the condition of slavery. It must be instructions had any immediate bearing obvious to every one that we were taking on the present policy of this country, the bull by the horns—that we were askand he assured the hon. Gentleman their ing what it was not in the least likely we production would not increase the pros- could, by any possibility, obtain--and that pect of a successful termination of the when we made the passing of a law as to negotiations for a commercial Treaty. slavery, the condition of our admission of If ihe hon. Member looked to the Papers their sugar, we were opposing an obstabefore the House, he would see, that long cle wbich it was impossible to overcome. before the mission of Mr. Ellis, every ef- Clause agreed to. fort was exhausted to bring about an On Clause 3, which provides that vessels amicable negotiation on the subject of the engaged in the Slave Trade, contrary to Right of Search. So far back as 1835, Convention, should be tried by Courts of an application with this view was refused. Admiralty, In 1840, a new proposition was made, Sir Thomas Wilde said, it must be borne but with a similar result. In 1841, also, in mind that this clause subjected those who

lo when the Slave Trade was extensively belonged to another State to trial by our carried on, Brazil refused to take any law. Now, in the first place it must be steps in conjunction with this country for observed that the mere agreement between putting a stop to it.

the Brazils and this country to pass a Mr. Gibson said, that in 1841, when Treaty declaring the Slave Trade piracy, the negotiations were pending, they were could not be brought into operation brought to a sudden termination by the against the subjects of the Brazils, unless passing of the Resolution of the noble a law was passed there for the purpose of Member for Liverpool, which displaced giving it effect, no more than the mere dethe late Government. The House had claration of the Minister could apply to a right to know what were the instruc- our subjects, unless the Legislature carried tions which led to the alienation of Bra- it into operation by a special Act. When zil. The right hon. Gentleman asked the that Treaty was made, a particular jurisHouse to put confidence in him. He diction, called the Mixed Commission, did place confidence in the right hon. was created, to try the question as to the Gentleman, but not so far as to consent forfeiture of vessels acting in contravento legislate in the dark.

tion of it; and the British Legislature


passed an Act restricting the jurisdiction, he was particularly anxious that his hon. of the Courts of Admiralty, with respect and learned Friend's opinions should not to such cases as were likely to come before be misrepresented, he begged to ask bim the Mixed Commission. Whether the whether he correctly understood the proCours of Admiralty would or would not position which his hon. Friend had laid have had jurisdiction he should not stop down? If he understood him correctly, to inquire; but it seemed to be assumed his hon. and learned Friend denied the that they would have had such jurisdic- power of the Brazilian Government to tion, by the restraint imposed by the Act. enter into a Treaty with this country, by The present Act, however, gave them ex- which the dealing in slaves should be depress jurisdiction. The First Clause de- clared piracy. [Sir T. Wilde: No, no !) clares that the subjects of the Einperor His hon, and learned Friend then adof the Brazils, if found engaged in the mitted that the Brazilians had the right Slave Trade, should be deemed guilty of to enter into such a Treaty. In 1826, ibe piracy; and then by this clause it was de- Brazilians adopted all the stipulations of clared that the Courts of Admiralty should the Treaty with Portugal of 1817, which have jurisdiction over any vessels engaged embodied all the stipulations respecting in the Slave Trade in cootravention of the the Mixed Commission, and in which it Convention of 1826. Now, he could very was declared that dealing in slaves on the well understand that as a general principle part of the subjects of either State, within both countries should agree that the sub- three years of the ratification of the Treajects of each engaged in the Slave Trade ty, should be piracy. In consequence of should be guilty of piracy; but the ques- the adoption of the Treaty, the Mixed tion was, could they go so far as this Bill Commission Court was a necessary part of attempted, and declare that foreign sub- the stipulations, and the 7th and 8th of jects

George IV. was passed. In March, 1845, “Shall be tried by the like rules and regu- the stipulations of the Treaties with the lations as are contained in any Act of Parlia- Brazils, with respect to the Mixed Comment now in force in relation to the suppres- mission and other matters, ended. It was sion of the Slave Trade by British owned admitted that the Brazilians passed no law ships ?"

for the abolition of the Slave Trade ; but Would it not be better to say that they he contended that the whole of the Treashould be proceeded against as pirates? | ty, declaring it to be piracy, was equiWith respect to the negroes alluded to by valent to the abolition of the Slave Trade his noble Friend (Viscount Palmerston), by thal country. The question was, wheperhaps he might be allowed to suggest ther, in consequence of this Article in the a difficulty as to their position, which Convention, the jurisdiction of the Admistruck him forcibly. At the time these ralty and Admiralty Couris still existed. negroes were transported there was a pro- He had no doubt on the subject ; but it perty in them recognised by the law of appeared that doubts were entertained England. Now, supposing they were the question, then, was as to the mode goods, and that you prohibited their ex- this matter should be dealt with.

He portation, would you, because their trans- knew no other inode in which they could fer was a forfeiture in your own subjects, treat the subject than to regard it as be justified in saying to a foreigner who had piracy, and then, inasmuch as parties fairly purchased them, “ We demand guilty of piracy were liable, by the law of these goods because a British subject il-nations, as enemies of mankind, to the legally exported them?” The Crown most severe punishment, they should be could acquire no title to them except by dealt with accordingly. As the Mixed record; but the judgment once obtained, Commission would expire, it became neit referred back io the Act of Forfeiture. cessary to revive the jurisdiction of the If the goods could be seized before the Courts of Admiralty, and powers must be new title of the foreigner intervened, we given to them accordingly; therefore, he might claim them; but, as it was, the considered that the first part of the clause question required great consideration. was essential and necessary. The first

The Attorney General was sure the part of the clause enacted — House must feel greatly indebted to his

“ That it shall be lawful for Her Majesty's hon. and learned Friend for the valuable High Court of Admiralty, and any Court of suggestions which he had thrown out. As | Vice-Admiralty, within Her Majesty's domin

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