five years amounted to $227,000,000; the | In 1870 the tonnage of steamers passing total freight to carriers for the same period through the canal was 264,000 tons, and in amounted to $122,000,000, showing a bal- 1871, 396,000 tons, and the tonnage of ance of profit in favour of the State of sailing vessels in 1870, 408,000 tons and in $10,500,000. The total tolls and freights 1871 355,000. This showed that the tenon the State canals in 1871 were $10,750,- dency was to replace sailing vessels by 000, of which not less than $7,600,000 went steamers. In the total tonnage, however, into the pockets of the carriers. These it would be seen that in 1871 they were figures told their own tale; but the effect 80,000 tons more than in the year previous. would be more striking when the revenue Taking the tonnage of vessels and goods was compared with the cost of constructing together he found that in 1849 it amounted the canals. The Erie Canal had not only to 820,000 tons; in 1869, twenty years later, repaid its first cost and all the subsequent it was 2,500,000, while in the same space outlay upon it, but it had nearly paid tor of time the trade increased twenty per all the other State canals besides those cent. Confining themselves to the trade which New York had now, about 900 miles, from the West, the number of tons in 1870 costing over $100,000,000. One reason was 867,000, and in 1871, 962,000, shewing why the Erie anal had an advantage over an increase of 100,000 tons. At the same us was, that the large vessels employed on time he desired to correct an erroneous the lake could carry a much larger cargo impression which existed about the tons to the western terminus of the canal, where nage of American vessels, as compared rapid means of transhipment made up for with that of Canadian vessels going through loss of time caused by the length of the the Welland Canal. It has been stated canal. These large vessels, which were thas the average Canadian tonnage was admitted on all hands to be able to carry 424 tons, and the average American 392 four times as much as the smaller vessels tons. He referred to steamers only. that passed through our canals, did not During the last four years the number of cost for their maintenance anything like a vessels that had passed through the Welsum proportionate to their size, and they land Canal had been as follows:-1868, required hardly more to run than the 6,157; 1869, 6,159; 1870, 6,740, 1871, smaller vessels, and the cost being so little, 7,729. During these years the tonnage and divided on a larger cargo, the trade was-In 1868, 1 148,000; 1869, 1,267,005; must necessarily be carried on with a 1870, 1,367,000; 1871, 1,554,000. It would larger profit. A single inducement was, be thus seen that the trade was increasing therefore, given to carry the trade through rapidly; but the canal was too narrow, not the American route instead of the Welland deep enough, and too small in every way, Canal and the St. Lawrence. Let us and it must be enlarged. The motion he enlarge our canals and the result would be had to propose, and which was in the hands quite different. He wished now to read a of the hon. member, applied to the Welfew short extracts to show the American land Canal, the St. Lawrence Canal and the opinion on this subject of the enlargement Bay Verte Canal. The intention was to of our canals. They fully appreciated its give the Welland Canal the dimensions reimportance and the effect it would have commended by the Canal Commissioners, upon their trade. The House would re- the locks would 270 feet in length, forty member that a ship canal around Niagara five feet in depth, with twelve feet of Falls, to be a rival of the Welland Canal, water on the sills. As to the St. Lawrence had been spoken of more than once, but Canal, the Government intended to give it had never been realized, and if he could them the same dimensions, but there might put faith in public documents published be difficulties in the matter, and he could in the United States, the reason of the not say positively that twelve feet of water failure of that great undertaking was, that could be obtained without a much larger they believed that the building of the expenditure than the House might wish; canal would necessarily deviate the trade but the question was being enquired into, from the American canals into the St. and in any case ten and a half feet would Lawrence by way of Montreal. He read be obtained, and he hoped proper exami extracts upon this point from the "memo- nation would show that the St. Lawrence rial as to the proposed Niagara Ship anal, canals could have the same dimensions as the course of commerce on the lake, &c.," the Welland. The dimensions of the Bay in which the danger to the trade of the Verte Canal would not be the same. New York canals was dwelt upon in case was proposed that in the case of that canal the Niagara Ship Canal should be built, or the locks should be 270 feet by forty, with the Canadian canals enlarged. He then fifteen feet of water. Questions as to the proceeded to give some particulars res different canals would come up separately specting the trade of the Welland Canal. when the votes were asked, and he had no It doubt the House should be satisfied, from the explanations he would be able to give, that the undertaking would be prosecuted with vigor, without loss of time, and with. out endangering the finances of the coun try. He then moved the House into Committee to consider the resolutions, and stated that he had His Excellency's consent to his doing so. The hon. gentleman was cheered on taking his seat. Hon Mr. MACKENZIE asked whether it was the intention to provide for the trade being conducted by barges towed from the western lakes to Montreal? Hon Mr. LANGEVIN repeated that the Welland Canal would be enlarged to the dimensions recommended by the Canal Commissioners, and that the Government intended to do the same for the St. Lawrence Canals, but they could not pledge themselves to give immediately the full amount of twelve feet of water in the St. Lawrence canals, because they were not sure that such a depth could be obtained without a larger expenditure than the House would sanction, but they would promise that ten and a half feet would be obtained. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the conclusion had been growing in his mind that it was next to impossible to make it a profitable business to take large vessels down the St. Lawrence, and more so to take them up. It was very fine to speak of bring. ing ships from Europe to the farthest end of the lakes; but while it might be possible to do so, he did not think it would pay. He thought the proper course would be to make the Welland Canal available for large barges, in which the great bulk of the trade would be done in the future, with a transhipment at Kingston and another at Montreal. He believed the business would be done more cheaply in that way, and the grain would be benefitted by the transhipment. He believed it would be very difficult to get twelve feet of water in the St. Lawrence it would be almost impossible to obtain that depth of water in the lake harbours until the Government undertook the very serious business of incurring a large expenditure in order to obtain that depth of water. he could not but think that the width proposed for the locks, forty-five feet, was rather small, and that it should be made fifty five feet He referred to the American canal at Sault Ste. Marie, the breadth of the locks there being seventy feet, and said it afforded great facilities to have the locks of such dimensions; and it was a question whether it was not desirable to make the Welland Canal where they might have locks of such a breadth as to allow | more than one vessel to pass at a time; for if that could be done à larger business could be done at a smaller cost. He did not pretend to have studied the matter technically, but the question ought to be very carefully considered. The works would be profitable, not so much from the amount of tolls as from the inducement to merchants to invest largely in vessels engaged in the carrying trade in bulk from Chicago to Montreal, and as promoting a vast traffic by the St. Lawrence that would enable them not only to carry a vast pro portion of the trade of the West to the Atlantic, but also to carry a great portion of the merchandise for Chicago and other Western cities from Europe. In order to accomplish these objects effectually and in order to avoid the blunders which were committed in earlier days when Canada did not anticipate the traffic of the West, it would be a pity indeed that they should again commence the enlargement of the canals, and do it on a scale not commenTM surate with the trade proposed to be accommodated for many years to come. With regard to the St. Lawrence, he had been informed that in some parts of the rapids there was only a depth of five or six feet. The water was, no doubt, unusually low, but if his information was correct in that respect, and also in respect of the nature of the entrance to the Beauharnoi canal, an immense amount of submarine blasting would be necessary to obtain even 11 feet. He scarcely thought it either advisable or possible to obtain the same depth of water and the same accommɔdation for large vessels in the St. Lawrence canals as would be obtained in the western waters, but the matter could be fully diss cussed, and with the opinion of the engi. neers of the department and other scientific men, they would be able to come to some conclusion that would enable them to adopt such measures as would prevent anything like regrets in the future. He was disposed to give every assistance in regard to these great national works, believing that the prosperity of the country very much depended on them; but they must remember that they were doing it to accommodate the trade of the Americons, and to give them facilities in reach ing the sea, that they had not and could not have on their own territory. They could, of course, have a canal round the Niagara Falls, but there was no fear of their making it as long as the State of New York was interested in the canal from Buffalo to Albany. Mr. SHANLY considered it to be of the highest importance to make the Welland Canal sufficiently large to accommodate large vessels and remove the only barrier | market, the only market open to them. that lay between the two lakes. He was We ought to pause, therefore, before innot, however, in favour of the proposed curring a large expenditure for enlarging enlargement of the St. Lawrence Canal, the canals chiefly for the benefit of the Transhipment would always take place at people of the United States. Our canals some point at the foot of Lake Ontario, as it were quite sufficient for our own people. would be found that the river work would be done more cheaply by barges than by steamers. He was fully satisfied that the St. Lawrence canals, as they now were, could do in time the barge work that they had hitherto done. He believed that those who advocated the deepening of those canals to twelve feet had no idea of the cost of such a project. We would not only have to enlarge those canals but large stretches of the river would have to be deepened and the cost would be larger than most persons had any idea of. He, therefore, thought that the enlargement of the Welland Canal should be first proceeded with, deferring the St. Lawrence canals until we saw how much trade it would bring through them. With regard to the dimensions of the locks recom mended by the Canal Commission, he also agreed with the member for Lambton, to a certain extent, only he thought that a width of fifty feet would be sufficient. He did not approve of the system of locking two vessels at the same time; he would rather look forward to the time when double locks could be constructed to accommodate vessels ascending and descending on the same plan as on the Erie Canal in New York. He concurred in the general features of the report. He would go as far as to say that the Welland Canal ought to be deepened to 13 feet at all events it ought to be placed in a position to receive the largest vessels that leave the harbour of Chicago. He believed that the present low state of water in the St. Lawrence was exceptional, and that a depth of nine feet in the canals could generally be relied upon. Mr. JŪNES (Leeds and Grenville) said this question had long occupied the attention of the people of this country, and various attempts had been made to arrange some satisfactory system. Attempts had been made to secure reciprocity from the United States with regard to the enlargement of the Canals, but they had failed. The enlargement would be some advan tage to the commercial and business men of the country, but would be of no ad vantage to the great agricultural classes. It would be chiefly for the benefit of the western states, and while we were shut out from the American market the pro.. duce of the western states would be brought into competition with the products of our own farmers into the European Mr. WORKMAN said although he would have desired that this measure had been brought up earlier, he was glad to find that the Government had adopted large and extensive views. At the same time he agreed to a considerable extent with the remarks of the hon. member for Grenville, He believed that the enlargement of the Welland Canal should first engage the at tention of the Government. The St. Law rence canals were sufficient for all the bu siness done upon them. The trade was now done principally in barges drawing about eight feet of water, and one small steamer could take four or six of these barges at once. The transhipment of grain into these barges at Kingston and other ports greatly improved it. Our route had a great advantage in this respect over the river route, as from the length of the lat ter route and the warmth of the water in the canal the grain was injured. The transhipment of the grain and its passage through our cool waters kept the grain in good condition. By the enlargement of the Welland Canal he thought we should secure the whole carrying trade of the North-West. As to the Bay Verte Canal. he had been informed that its construction would involve an expenditure of ten or twelve millions of dollars, and that it was almost an engineering impossibility. It was an important work and he would not object to its construction if it were feasible, and could be done for a reasonable amount, but if it was only throwing so much money into a mud hole, the expenditure could not be justified, and he thought the Government should be very cautious and not rush into it without due consideration. Dr. GRANT spoke of the great importance of the question, and referred to the high position of Great Britain as being in consequence partly, of the magnitude of her harbors bringing her in contact with the outside world. He spoke of the growth of New York, Quebec, Montreal and Otta. wa as being attributable to their position cn rivers. He believed that those who occupied seats on the Ministeriai benches had the advancement of the country at heart and the placing of the canals on such a basis as would ensure the commers cial prosperity of the country. He referred to the Treaty of Washington, and said he believed all barriers and restrictions on trade would be broken down. He referred to the increase of population throughout the provinces, and hoped that Nova Scotia would be able to send up her coal and fish, and take down fabrics and grain in return. The canal system of the Dominion only dated back for some fifty years, and what had been accomplished was creditable to the country. He scarcely believed in opinions that had been eloquently express ed that vessels would come from Europe and be able to ascend to the lakes, as the barge system had now been introduced. He regretted that the River Ottawa had not received a greater share of attention at the hands of the Canal Commissioners, as he was quite sure it would ultimately be come a great source of revenue from trade, and every value be reduced to meet the growing requirements of the country. As to the Bay Verte Canal, he believed its construction wonld be of the greatest possible advantage in building up commercial connection between the different Pro vinces. He thought they should endeavor by every means to develope the resources of the several Provinces, The enlarge ment of the Welland Canal would no doubt be a great advantage to the Americans, and he trusted they would look at it in that way, and that there would soon be Reciprocity again. He believed the Washington Treaty had got in the small end of the wedge, and he believed the men who had accomplished the treaty would also accomplish reciprocity. Mr. STREET said the Minister of Public Works had not made any specific propos sition, but merely asked the House if it was desirable that the canals should be enlarged. They had already had various opinions as to the best mode of car rying their produce to the sea, but he had no doubt the Government would be fully advised before proceeding with the work. All agreed that the waters of Lake Erie and Lake Ontario should be united, and in order to accomplish that the Welland Canal should be enlarged. It had been said that the enlargement of the Canadian canals would be to the benefit of Americans and enable them to compete in the English market, but the object should be to make the canals valuable and profitable. The Ames ricans could get their produce to Liverpool without the use of our canals, and so long as Liverpool was the best market, they would send their produce there whether through Canada or not. A most important matter was the size of the locks, and he hoped the Government would give that matter their most earnest consider ation. He was glad to find that they had taken the substantial step of coming down to the House and asking if it was desirable that the canals should be enlarged. He would leave the matter in the hands of the Government to proceed with on obtaining competent engineering advice. Mr. MERRITT congratulated the minis try on being in a position to announce their policy in reference to the canals. If the Welland Canal were enlarged to admit vessels now trading to Buffalo a large portion of the trade now done at that place would pass through the Welland Canal to Montreal. He instanced a case of a vessel built by himself, which would only carry 3,500 barrels of flour, whereas if the canals were deepened two feet the same vessel would carry 7,000 barrels. He thought the Government had wisely decided as to the size of the locks, and hoped they would push the work forward. Mr. MASSON (Soulanges), had been one of the first to advocate the enlargement of canals, and was pleased with the manner in which the Government had taken the matter in hand. He referred specially to the report of the Canal Commissioners in regard to the Beauharnois Canal, and argued that it would be cheaper to build a new canal on the north shore than to enlarge the canal, owing to the engineering difficulties to be encountered. Mr. ROSS (Dundas) said, as it was generally conceded that the Welland Canal should be enlarged, so as to accommodate the trade of the West, it became necessary for us to make perfect facilities for the conduct of that trade to the seaboard. He had been informed by forwarders that our locks had sufficient width, but lacked length; what they desired was a capacity of lock sufficient to take a vessel with 40,000 bushels of grain. He thought that a depth of ten feet would be sufficient, with a length of 270 feet. Mr. RYAN desired to correct the statement of the hon, member for Lincoln when he said he was at a loss to know why the member for Montreal opposed the deepening of the canals. He was not opposed to it. The trade of the West was increasing; and if we afforded the necessary facilities there would be no limit to it. The Government deserved great credit for their scheme, which he was sure would meet with the approval of the people both east and west, If the scheme were carried out, he thought the trade would increase to fifty millions of bushels in ten years. As to the Bay Verte canal, it the Government found that it was practicable he was sure they would receive the support of the country in constructing a work of so much importance to the Dominion. Mr. McCALLUM thought that the width of 45 feet to the locks would be found amply sufficient. At the same time if the Government thought proper to make them wider it would add but little to the expense, but to construct them so as to lock three or four veasels at a time, would not be beneficial. A depth of ten feet, he contended, would accommodate any vessel navigating the inland waters of this country. He advocated the construction of additional elevators at Kingston. The want of such additional accommodation and the lowness of the water last year, had materially reduced the business of the Welland Canal. He was glad that the hon. member for Lincoln agreed with him that steam vessels were superseding sailing vessels on the lakes. He (Mr. McCal. lum) had no doubt that in a few years the trade would be conducted altogether by steam vessels with barges in tow. As to the Welland Canal there would be no difficulty in getting twelve feet of water. He took exception to the report of the officer who was sent by the Board or Works, contending that the cost ot the rock cutting at Port Colborne harbour would be much greater, and the time required to perform the work much longer than as stated in the reports. He pointed out that it would save both time and money if instead of enlarging Port Colborne end of the Canal the feeder to Port Maitland were made use of as the main bhannel. He trusted the Government would take this matter into consideration and have further surveys made before a final conclusion was determined upon. The same engineer whose report he held in his hand, had recommended the construction of a breakwater at the east side of Port Colborne harbour, 2,000 feet long. The prevailing winds, however, were from the west during the season of navigation, and instead of a breakwater at that point being of any real service, it would seem to be a catch water, and would destroy the harbour. If the Government should undertake to make a large expenditure for the improvement of Port Colborne harbour, even if a million were spent on the work. He believed it would be money in a great measure thrown away. He hoped the Government would not, therefore, act in this matter without making further inquiry. for the result of making a large expenditure on that point would be only to show that a serious mistake had been made. He warned the Government now in time, and trusted heed would be given to the warning. The The House then went into committee, Mr. SCHATCHARD in the chair. resolutions were adopted without amend ment, and the committee and reported. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE hooed the hon. gentleman intended to give some further information in regard to the Bay Verte Canal before proceeding further. Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN said it would be more convenient to the House if he gave full details when the item of Supply came up for consideration. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE assented. The resolutions were then read a first and second time. SUPPLY. On the motion of Sir GEORGE CARTIER the House again went into Committee of Supply upon the understanding that if the House was thin no items should be pressed, to which there was no objection-Mr. Stephenson in the chair. On the item of $14,000 to aid in the construction of a branch railway from the Acadian Iron Mines, Londonderry, Nova Scotia, to the Intercolonial Railway, Mr. LANGEVIN read an Order in Couns cil that had been passed upon the subject, showing that the Government had imposed very sfringent conditions on the Mining Company which was to construct the foun dation of the road, the Government providing the rails, ballast and spikes, and undertaking to work the road when completed. The item was passed. On the item $200,000 for improvement of the River St. Lawrence between Montreal and Quebec, Mr. MACKENZIE asked if it was the intention, as he saw by a notice in the papers, to levy a tax to meet that expenditure? Mr. LANGEVIN said the Minister of Finance had given notice to that effect. The item was passed. On the Item $110,600 for North Shore Railway, Mr. BOLTON said that it was extaordi 'nary this road should cost $100.000 every year over and above its earnings. The working expenses amounted to 99 per cent. of the receipts, a per centage unexampled on any railway in the world. Its gross earnings were $100,000 and yet all that had been spent and $100,000 more. Mr. COFFIN did not understand how these railways should cost more every year to run and keep them in order than the receipts. From the fact that it had so greatly discouraged railway enterprise in Nova Scotia, he believed the Government should increase the tariff of charges in order to bring the income up to the expen diture. Mr. BODWELL thought it would be bet. ter to sell them for what they would fetch |