Hon. Mr. HOWE said they were. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE thought that another reason why the Government should reconsider the matter.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said the honor. able gentleman had spoken in ignorance of the vote he had alluded to, but he (Mr. Mackenzie) was not here to defend the action of another Legislature, and he would give no further reply. He thought the printing of the Geological Report should be done at the Capital and that their headquarters should also be there. He thought the public printing was very cre ditably done and if necessary the proof could be sent to Montreal for correc. tion.

Hon. Mr. MACDOUGALL thought the mode of conducting the business of the survey a serious disadvantage to the public. He referred more particularly to the manner of publishing the reports. He had ascertained that the head of the survey, Mr. Selwyn, a very distinguished scientific gentleman, who had been recommended for the position by Sir Wm. Logan, had to attend at Ottawa for the Dr. GRANT was pleased to hear the repurpose of proof reading and looking marks of the member for Lambton as to after the printing of his report. He knew the manner in which the work of the survey that the Geological report, from its highly had been performed. There was no subject scientific character, and the use of terms that came before the House of greater imnot commonly understood by proof readers portance. He thought the vote too small required the constant supervision of some considering the extent of the service. Duone familiar with those matters, but hering the last season great exertions had thought it an awkward and expensive arrangement that the head of the Survey reference to the geology of British Columwhose office was at Montreal should be bia, and a large tract of country there recompelled to come to Ottawa for that quired yet to be explored. The Departpurpose. He thought the printing ment should have its headquarters here. could be done in Montreal quite as He did not think that McGill College recheaply and more efficiently. With required the museum in Montreal, as they gard to the question raised by the member for Lambton as to the rule, of which this is an exception, of voting money yearly, he thought this whole establishment must be considered as exceptional.

The fact that it was under the control of the Dominion Government and at the same time had relation chiefly to subjects which were by the constitution under the control of the Local Governments was of itself an

exceptional condition. He approved, however, of the plan of having one survey for the whole Dominion in preference to separate provincial surveys. He believed that the work had been performed in an admirable manner and to the satisfaction of scientific men abroad, much more so he believed than similar surveys of Our neighbours. He thought that the vote for five or six years gave confidence to the officers, and he differed from the member for Lambton as to the expediency of leaving the question to the discretion of Parliament from session to session. As to the general principle of Parliament keeping money under its control and voting each year the amounts required, he agreed with the member for Lambton. But of late we had seen a different principle adopted, when it was thought proper, with regard to one great public interest (referring to the Ontario Railway policy) to anticipate the revenue of the country for the next twenty years (hear, hear).

been made to elicit some information with

had a large collection of their own suffi cient for all purposes of education.

Mr. WORKMAN (Montreal) bore testiGeological Surveys, and hoped the House mony to the great benefit derived from would grant the money.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE did not think the country owned the museum at Montreal and therefore it could not be moved to Ottawa.

Mr. DE COSMOS (B. Columbia) spoke of the surveys that had been prosecuted in British Columbia, the results of which would be gratifying not only to scientific men, but to the world at large. He spoke of the way in which the matter had been carried on in California and Oregon, where men of the highest attainments were engaged, who principally directed their attention to what was termed economical geology, the results being most beneficial, and hoped that in any directions or instructions given to the gentlemen who might be chosen in Canada, they should be asked to attend particularly to that branch. He was sure that every gentleman, no matter what his province, would gladly agree to an appropriation for a matter so import.

ant.

Mr. MILLS (Bothwell) thought the matter was entirely one with which the Local Governments should deal. If, however, a Geological Department was to be established and surveys made, it should certainly be connected with one of the.

public Departments, and steps should be taken to establish a Geological Cabinet in Ottawa showing the various products of the different parts of Canada. He instanced the Department at Washington as an instance of what this should be. Until Government was prepared to establish something of this kind, he did not think much good could result, for as things were at present the resources of the country were known to a few scientific men only, while practical men who desired to develop those resources could get no information. He thought that wherever a Province was established, that Province should carry on its own surveys, but that the Dominion Government might act in those territories not forming Provinces. He should not however press this objection, but should move in amendment that it was expedient to connect the surveys with one of the Departments, and that a geological cabinet should be formed at the Capital.

Hon. Mr. HOWE thought that there could be no advantage in a subdivision of surveys. The separate Provinces had not as yet done what was necessary, and Manitoba, for instance, could not possibly be in a position to take the matter in hand. It was very important that the North-West should be surveyed at once, as no doubt there would be immense deposits of coal disclosed. It would seem as if public men were born to disparage one another, but there was one name that all must mention with honor and respect -Sir William Logan-a man who had devoted his whole life and means to the prosecution of this matter; and though there might be an advantage in moving the headquarters of the staff from Montreal to Ottawa, it would be hard to move Sir William Logan, who, as long as he lived, would continue to be the life and soul of the branch, no matter who might be the nominal head. As to the remarks of the member for North Lanark with res

pect to printing the reports, that gentleman was no doubt correct in what he had said, but there were certain difficulties in the way of printing the reports at Ottawa, but he hoped the volume shortly to be sub. mitted to the House would show that those difficulties had been surmounted in the best way possible.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE thought the remarks of the member for Bothwell deserved the serious attention of the Government. There seems to be some difference of opinion as to whether the Museum at Montreal was public property or not, and he thought the House ought to be informed on the point. A Geological Cabi.

net was the most enduring memorial, and the most available result of researches, and should be established. He desired to get information on another point. The last vote of the House had been $30,000 annually for five years, but the present proposal was to increase that amount fifty per cent. Upon what estimate was this increase based. He was not opposed to voting any reasonable sum that could be properly expended, but he thought the proposed increase should be explained.

Hon. Mr. HOWE said that with regard te the Museum, he believed Sir William Logan had his own very choice and valuable collection, but there was also a larger collection belonging to the country, and while the present arrangement lasted, the public had the benefit of both. A strong reason that these collections should remain at Montreal was that that city was in the direct course of the traffic of the St. Lawrence, so that twenty people visited it, while one came to Ottawa. As to the proposed increase, it was based upon an estimate by Mr. Selwyn, and was intended to cover the additional cost of exploring the North West and British

Columbia.

Hon. Mr. BLAKE thought there should be a statement of the collection belonging to the public at Montreal, and that all necessary steps should be taken to preserve it.

Dr. GRANT maintained that the collection ought to be moved to Ottawa, so that during the session the representatives of the people might be able to carry back to the constituents throughout the country a knowledge of what had been accomplished. He believed that the building now containing the collection was not secure, and thought it high time that means should be taken to place it in security.

Colonel CUMBERLAND was understood to refer to the recent proceedings in the Ontario Parliament, alleging that the members of that Government now 80 anxious for economy had not hesitated there to mortgage the whole Province for many years, and to increase in many ways the expenditure.

Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said that the former Act allowing $30,000 annually provided that a statement in detail of the expenditure should be submitted to the House within 15 days of the meeting of Parliament. The public accounts, however, merely mentioned one or two salaries and then placed $29,000 to the current expenses. He asked for the necessary statement.

not

a

Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD refer- the whole country. He thought all the spered to the remarks of the member for cimens belonging to the public should be Bothwell as to whether the Local or Do- brought to Ottawa and he should be fully minion Government should deal with the prepared to vote a proper sum for the matter, and in which he had the high erection of a building for their reception. authority of the member for West Durham He objected to that part of the proposi in support of the principle laid down by tion that if the full amount was not exhim, and said that if they were correct he pended in any one year the balance should was rather surprised the matter should be available for the next. Any surplus have been allowed to go on so far. With ought to lapse and he hoped there would respect to the remarks of the survey be a change in that respect. He did not being merely scientific and not sufficient- object to the vote extending over five years. being ly by practical, minute survey of the mineral resources of the country, he thought the subject was very well divided under the present system, and that while the geological character of the whole Dominion could be successful, ascertained and mapped out by the Dominion Government-the schools of mining established by the different provinces might simply direct their attention to that branch of the subject in which the Province might be particularly interested. With respect to the amendment proposed by the member for Both well he thought it was not required. As to the first part the survey was already connected with the Department of the Secretary of State for the Provinces who was the responsible Minister in the mat. ter, and the mere fact of the Superintendent of the survey being in Montreal did not do away with that responsibility. He did not think it necessary to enter into the question as to whether the

museum should be removed to Ottawa or retained at Montreal, but he did not think there was at present any secure building at the Capital, at the disposal of the Government to which the specimens could be removed. Before any removal could take place therefore, such a building would have to be erected and it would be better therefore to let the collection remain at Montreal for the present under the supervision of Mr. Selwyn and Sir W. Logan. The last part of the amendment as to the formation of a Geo. logical Cabinet was worthy of all consideration and the Secretary of State for the Provinces would no doubt confer with Mr. Selwyn on the subject. With this assurance he suggested the withdrawal of the amendment.

Hon. J. S. MACDONALD said that for 25 years a great amount of money seemed to have been expended without any adequate result. Under the present system comparatively few people knew what was done. He thought that while Ontario attended to its Local interests in the matter, there could be no objection to the Dominion maintaining a survey throughout

Hon. Mr. BLANCHET hoped the Secretary of State for the Provinces would see the necessity of having the North West surveyed at once. Sometime ago it had been stated in newspapers that gold had been discovered at Peace River, and there had been extraordinary excitement on the subject. He thought there ought to be official information on the subject, as there was in America. He thought the locality of the Museum immaterial and that the name of Sir W. Logan was sufficiently well known to draw enquiring capitalists to him wherever he might be.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON should not object to the appropriation, but thought there ought to be an annual vote, and if in the progress of the measure an amendment was introduced with that view he should certainly support it. Under the old Act the appropriation was $30,000, but the public accounts for 1866 showed an expenditure of 36,400, the excess being noHe thought this where accounted for. should be explained.

Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS said the question was one which it would have been better to have asked of the Committee on Public Accounts, as he could scarcely explain every item in the public accounts, but his impression was that there would prove to have been no excess over the total appropriation, and that there had been a larger expenditure in this particular year than in the others.

Mr. THOMPSON [B. Columbia] was sorry that there should be so much debate about so paltry an amount as $45,000, and would have rather wished that that sum been doubled, trebled, should have and then someor quadrupled, thing could have been accomplished. It was very important that emigrants should have fuil information as to the resources of each portion of the Dominion, and if the matter were left to the different Provinces they might be tempted to give spurious information to attract emigration to their own lands; but the fact of the Dominion having obtained the information would be a sufficient guarantee of t

89

a

Some years ago the trustees concluded to |
put up the present Savings Bank building
from those funds, and their doing so was
the cause of considerable discussion at the
time. He thought it would be well to de.
termine how the money should be appro-
priated. It belonged, unquestionably, to
the depositors, three fourths or nine
tenths of whom were working men and
servant maids, and it should be applied
of the working
for the benefit
had
Catholic
classes. They
and a Protestant Hospital at St John, they
were not incorporated, and therefore
could not under the present law receive
the money, but it would be easy to have
an Act passed Incorporating them. He
had heard it said that the money should
be devoted to the establishment of an Art
Gallery or Library, but he did not think
either would benefit the working classes.
He would like to see the money divided
between the two Hospitals in preference
to the Trustees being allowed to distribute
it as they may choose.

one

or

innocent parties to notes and bills in cer-
tain cases under section 52, and by enab-
ling banks to receive deposits of savings
for minors and others, under certain limi-
tations.

Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS explained
the object of the second clause which was
passed without discussion.

AFTER RECESS.

3. That it is expedient to amend the Act regulating the issue of Dominion Notes 31 Vict., cap. 46, by providing that the amount of any excess over nine million dollars may be held by the Receiver General partly in specie and partly in deposits in Chartered Banks.

were

Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS explained that the object of the third clause was to remedy an inconvenience which had been found to exist in regard to the circulation By the Dominion of Dominion notes. Note Act the Government was required, up to a certain point-to the extent of Hon. Sir F. HINCKS concurred to a cer- $9,000,000--to keep twenty per cent. in tain extent with the honourable member specie, and beyond that amount they bound to hold, in gold, dollar had He believed The circulation dollar. for Gloucester. two persons had suggested that the for money should be applied to the establish- increased considerably beyond $9,000,000, ment of an art gallery or library, but he and they asked to be allowed to issue befelt sure that the trustees would not en-yond that amount upon the deposits of He doubted chartered Banks, but never holding less tertain such a proposition. the expediency of this House undertaking than twenty per cent in gold. It would to say that the money should be applied be a matter of considerable advantage to for mere local objects. He believed that the Banks without being of any disadit would be applied to such objects as the vantage to the Government. Inasmuch as the circulation is considerably beyond hon. gentleman had suggested, but he thought it only proper to leave it to those $9,000,000 and 18 likely to still increase, there is no inducement to the Banks to under whose good management it had issue small notes, and he had reason to been accrued. believe that at present there were complaints in various parts of the country of the insufficiency of small notes, and he could see no objection to the amendment proposed.

Hon. Mr. HOLTON thought the objects so clearly set of the original law were forth that some general provisions should be made binding the trustees to certain purposes to which the money should be appropriated.

Hon. J. H. CAMERON thought it better that the money should be distributed under judicial authority, rather than being left in the hands of the trustees, and suge gested that it would be better to allow the resolution to stand until another day.

Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS could not see any objection to the resolution passing as any amendment could be made in the Bill.

The first clause of the resolution was then passed.

2. That it is expedient to amend the Act relating to banks and banking by correcting a clerical error in section 72, by protecting

Hon. Mr. HOLTON said his earnest desire was to support the Government, and he always tried to do so (laughter). He asked whether it was proposed to deal with the ordinary balances of the Government in the banks as equivalent to a portion of specie reserve to meet Dominion