but so long as these tactics were carried ken upon this question, had been known on the Opposition would certainly remain to him for a very long period of time; and where they were. On the subject of the from their position were peculiarly qualiFenian claims, the hon. member for Westfied to speak on the subject of the fisherDurham had become quite sentimental, ies. He could, with the greatest contispeaking of widows and young men who dence, commend their remarks, counsel, had lost their lives, and asked whether an and advice to the most favorable consi Imperial guarantee would compensate such deration of the House. Another gentlecases as those. If the hon. gentleman man from Nova Scotia had also spoken, would read the estimates he would see who represented a constituency (Yarthat appropriations were asked for suffer- mouth,) the active and enterprising chaers by these raids, and in addition the racter of whose population was a guaran. Militia Act provided that pensions should tee of the soundness of his views. In be granted to those entitled to receive 1854 it was his (Mr. Campbell's) lot to be them. Parliament was, therefore, more a member of the Legislature of Nova Sco sympathizing than the member for West tia, when it became his duty to pass upon Durham, for they made immediate pro- the commercial arrangements made at that vision for sufferers, while he wanted them time with the United States. Similar ob to wait till the claim was paid. But sup jections to those made against this treaty posing that Canada had received a money were made against that. The prejudices payment instead of a guarantee would that and hostilities of a particular class of the money have gone to the sufferers? No. population, supposed to be effected by He now desired to address himself more that measure, were invoked and sought to particularly to those friends from Quebec, be arrayed against it. The most unscru who, during the course of twenty years pulous means were resorted to for the had given him their confidence, and whom purpose of operating upon them. Not. he had brought again and again through withstanding that unworthy course, notParliamentary struggles, where their votes withstanding that a general election was had not been popular at the time; but about to take place, he had felt it to be where they had been on the side of justice his duty to give his support to that meaand right. This had been the case in votes sure, and assist in the ratification of the on Confederation, the question of justice Treaty. He had never repented that vote, to Nova Scotia and the formation of Mani. and he had represented the same consti toba and British Columbia into Provinces; tuency ever since. (Hear, hear.) What in all which matters Ontario had been were the consequences of that Treaty? wavering and uncertain, while Quebec had At a very early period after its ratification stood firm; and in the present case, the he had had an opportunity of observing case of the Treaty, he again hoped to see its beneficial effects, not only in his own the representation of Quebec firmly united constituency, but throughout the Proin its favor. The member for Peel had vince at large, and, when the Treaty was spoken of the loss England had sustained abrogated, a cloud seemed to have arisen in the fall of her old ally, France. Of which overshadowed the whole land, and course they must regret that France brought in its train discontent as well as was not in a position to act as a adversity. That happened at a most inpowerful ally to England, as she had opportune moment, for about the same been previously, but one-third of the time the union of these Provinces was ac population of the whole Dominion were complished, causing in Nova Scotia a most of French origin, and what a satisfaction threatening state of the public mind. He it would be to England to find the repre- felt that the disposition evinced on acsentatives of the entire French population count of the repeal of the Treaty, and the of Canada ready to consent to the Treaty, harsh terms in which the people were and so help the Empire to settle her pre- disposed to express themselves in relasent difficulties; and he therefore, hoped tion to the consummation of the Union, to see those representatives in a solid were attributable in no little degree to the body voting for the Treaty. (Cheers.) general embarrassment that ensued in consequence of that abrogation. The Treaty now before the House was of a somewhat similar character, and his consti tuents regarded it entirely in that light. Under the operation of the system that had prevailed since the repeal of the Treaty of 1854, the fishermen of Nova Scotia had, to a large extent, become the fishermen of the United States. They had It being six o'clock the House rose. AFTER RECESS. Hon. Sir GEO. E. CARTIER repeated in French the arguments he had previously advanced in English. Mr. CAMPBELL (Guysboro') said that the hon. members for the County of Halifax, and for Shelburne, who had spo been forced to abandon their vessels and homes in Nova Scotia and ship to American ports, there to become engaged in aiding the commercial enterprises of that country. It was a melancholy feature to see thousands of young and hardy fishermen compelled to leave their native land to embark in the pursuits of a foreign country, and drain their own land of that aid and strength which their presence would have secured. (Hear, hear.) There was another evil in connection with this matter that, not only were they forced to aid in promoting the welfare of another country, but they were led, by being so gradually alienated from the land of their birth, and led to make unfortunate con. trasts and comparisons to the detriment of the country to which they belonged; because in the country to which they departed they derived benefits that were unatt inable in their own. (Hear, hear.) Another evil of the present state of things was the impediment thrown in the way of ship building by the depression caused in the business of the country. While Nova Scotia had mechanics who were able to build vessels that would compete in every important respect with those built by our American neighbors, the commercial impediments thrown in the way of Americans fishing in Canadian waters had an in. jurious effect upon the ship building in terest. It had been said that the conces sions obtained by the Dominion were not equivalent to the concessions which were granted to the United States. Upon that point he regarded what had been said by the Minister of Justice about the privi. leges of Canadians resorting to American waters for the purpose of procuring bait, as being of great importance. He be lieved that to be a very valuable and important concession. (Hear, hear.) He did not regard the American inshore fish eries as of such little value as had been represented, for he knew that frequently American fishermen left our coast and res sorted to their own waters, where they received a valuable recompense for chang. ing their venue and base of operations. By the treaty of 1818 American fishing vessels were not permitted to enter our harbours except for the purpose of obtaining wool, water and shelter. This limitation had produced a great deal of dissatisfaction, and did injustice to our shore population. Du ring the existence of the reciprocity treaty those vessels were constantly in our waters, engaged in a mutually advantageous busi ness with the merchants who lived on shore. Both parties desired a renewal of that relation, which would decidedly be to the advantage of Nova Scotia. It was was because he desired to restore to the peo. ple of Nova Scotia the advantages of that reciprocal trade, that he was ardently anx. ious for the ratification of this Treaty. To use a phrase that had been employed on both sides of the House, his constituents had "set their hearts upon it"; and as far as his voice and vote went they would surely have it. (Cheers.) He was extremely sorry that the Treaty had received the opposition it had, nor could he satisfy his own mind that such opposition was called for by any interest in the country. If the Treaty was objectionable to the people how came it that there was no expression of popular feeling against this measure? How was it that there were no petitions presented against it? How was it that boards of trade and chambers of commerce, which were always so watchful of everything connected with the commercial interests of the country, had sent no re monstrance and uttered no objections? (Hear, hear.) Why all this reticence if, as some hon. gentleman maintained, there a deep grounded antipathy to the Treaty throughout the land? Here was a measure, one of the most important that could ever be brought before this legisla ture, or was likely ever to come before it, which was declared by some hon. gentlemen to be a betrayal of our rights and fatal to our interests; and yet the great body of the people had not uttered a word against it, but had left it to their representatives to do what it was not common for them to do when great interests were at stake-act without the sentiments of their constituents being specially declared. (Hear, hear.) Treating the subject from a broader than a mere local point of view. he held that the maintenance of good will between the people of Canada and of the United States was of the very first im. portance to both, and also to the people of Canada as a portion of the Empire. The continuance of good relations between them had been threatened. Events con. current with the late civil war in the United States had led to a state of feeling which it was most desirable should not be continued. These two great na. tions had by this Treaty adopted a mode by which those differences might be healed, by which that unhappy and dangerous state of things might be remedied. They had provided a mode by which the horrors and barbarities incident to a state a war would henceforth be avoided, and the milder weapons of reason, and argument and justice be considered as the true exponents and the best test of the right of nations. (Her, hear.) As regarded individuals, so it was with respect to nations. Solutions, where a solution of grave diffi. culties and difference was desired. There was no mode so well calculated to effect that object, so simple, rational, and likely to be attended with such beneficial results as that in which the individuals or nations were brought into direct intercourse, to state their grievances and frankly acknow. ledge their responsibility, and when that was deferred to call in the aid of some impartial friend, by whose decision they would agree to be bound. Acting upon this great principle, the heads of these two powerful nations had agreed to subscribe their seal to this Treaty. The Parliament and people of Eugland had followed that glorious example. In that great arena of eloquence and patriotism political gladiators had cast aside the ordinary weapons of their warfare. Parties had been hushed; rival leaders had spoken together in harmony and accord; the interests of millions of population of England and America; the interests of hundreds of millions of the earth's inhabitants, the progress and civilization, the peace and general welfare of the world had been consulted, and in that great arena, in that great Parliament, the people, by their representatives, and their repre sentatives by the sanction of the people, had approved and ratified that mode of settling international differences. (Cheers.) And yet we here in Canada were asked to take another course. We were asked to reject this humane, this benevo lent, this philanthropic mode of settlement. We were asked to reject the results of the labors of those pious and good men who had taken part in these deliberations. Should we do anything of the kind? Should we do anything but confirm this Treaty ? He believed that the response of this House would be in the negative; and he felt confident that with this treaty ratified so far as we could ratify it; with this Bill now before the House made a portion of the statues of our country, a new era would occur in reference to our relations with the United States, and a new cause of rejoicing would come to the people of the Dominion, that their lot was cast in this happy land. (Cheers.) Hon. Mr. DORION said that the subject before the House was one of the greatest importance to this Dominion, and of very grave importance when we considered it in reference to its bearings upon Imperial interests. He alluded to the action that had been taken by England with regard to the Alabama claims, from the year 1862, when Earl Russell had refused to admit any liability in this matter, to the time of the formation of the Joint High Commission, and argued that the fact of England hav ing receded from the position then taken was conclusive evidence of the vital importance to England and to us of settling those disputes and maintaining friendly relations with the United States. He was not one of those who believed that England had tarnished her honour by the Treaty of Washington. He did not believe that England had done wrong in the course she had pursued with regard to that Treaty. He thought that Great Britain had been animated by high, noble motives in the course she had taken. It was not because of the forty millions of people of the United States that England had her position, but he believed it was because there were four millions of British subjects on this side of the line, whose interests he wished to guard, that England had done so— -(hear, hear)-and if Canada had not been an English colony she would not have receded from the position she first took. He had not heard it said that this Treaty, whether from an imperial or colo nial point of view, was a good treaty, except by one hon gentleman, the senior member for Halifax, who had advocated the ratification upon the merits of the Treaty on colonial grounds. It had been said that the Globe had been the first newspaper to cry out against the Treaty, but he would show that the first cry that was raised was by the Ministerial press and he believed at the instance of the Government and for their own purposes. The hon. gentleman then referred to the Montreal Gazette of 13th May, 1871, which contained, he said, the full text of the Treaty, but not a word of comment upon it in the editorial columns; but on the 20th May, after the Treaty had been before the country for a week, and after the editors had had time to receive their instructions as to how they should write, an article appeared in that paper, condemning the Treaty and the British Commissioners in the strongest language, and stating that England had degraded herself by signing such a treaty. Therefore, the attempt to put the onus of the cry against the Treaty upon one por tion of the press was unjust and unwarranted. If the dates were compared, it would be found that, shortly after the article appeared in the Montreal Gazette, the Leader and Telegraph, and, in fact, all the papers supporting the Government, had launched their thunders against the Treaty. On the 28th July the Government themselve had declared that it was not acceptable to the Canadian Government or to the people of Canada. The Minister of Militia had stated that it was not a question of cession of territorial rights; He would have been willing to make any sacrifice, as England had to do so; but this was not the ground on which the ratification was put. It is a meaner and lower one; it was a question of the interest of the present Ministry. The Finance Minister read the other night extracts which practically said those interested in the fisheries will be sufferers; but we are afraid that that Treaty will be imposed upon them by those least interested in its clauses. We were giving up without any necessity what would have secured reciprocity. It has been stated that the Premier was not representing Canada on the Commission; that he admitted, but it would have been better to know that they were represented, and by a statesman holding the position held by the Premier, It availed us but little that we were represented there, as the interest of Canada had been sacrificed while he was sitting on the Commission. Even had he not been there, and found that England was about to barter our interests, it was his duty to remonstrate. He ought to have said to England he could have been no more a Commissioner, or to the people of Canada he could be no more their Prime Minister. As a British Minister he signs with his right hand the Treaty, and comes to Canada, and with his left hand pens the mi that it was merely a financial tariff arrangement; but that statement did not agree with the minutes of 28th July, which stated that the Treaty was not acceptable to the country for two reasons: first, that the principal cause of difference between Canada and the United States had not been removed, but remained a subject for anxiety; and, second, that a cession of territorial rights of great value had been made, contrary to the express wishes of the Canadian Government; and yet the Minister of Militia said it was not a question of cession of territorial rights. Nearly the whole press of the country had expressed indignation at the Treaty on account of material interests which had been sacrificed, and gentlemen opposite had intensified that dissatisfaction at the opening of the discussion by the course they had taken. It was all very well for them now to try and shift their position, by saying that there were higher considerations which should induce this House to sanction the Treaty. If they had presented it to us as a necessity; if they had stated that it was not a treaty that dealt fairly with Canadian interests, that it was in the interests of the Empire that it should be accepted in order to main. tain friendly relations between the two great countries interested; if they had thus thrown themselves upon the indul-nute of Council of 28th July." In the one gence of the House, he for one would have been ready to accord them support. The fisheries are so important that we have the word of the Ministers themselves that we never should have had the Reciprocity Treaty of 1854 without them; so that we have at once abandoned every inducement to reciprocity. We have heard that, bea majority of the House abolished the duty on wheat and coal, we had thereby lost all chances of reciprocity. As it is, there is no doubt a great sacrifice has been made, and the question is whether the money consideration is sufficient. Prince Edward Island, although willing on Imperial grounds to ratify the Treaty, made very strong representations against it. They stated that, in deference to the wishes of the Imperial Government, they reluctant ly consented to the Treaty. Newfoundland, representing the difficulties that would embarrass the Government, was, however, willing to sanction it. These were two outside colonies. Now, looking to the Dominion we find Nova Scotia voting by thirty to three against it, and this just before their election, and they have not changed their views since. Turning to New Brunswick, a just newly-elected Legislature votes unanimously against it. cause case he was representing British Interests, and in the other he was a Canadian. If his hon. friend could reconcile the two positions, he (Mr. Dorion) could not. He could not, without a blush coming to his face, speak of the course adopted by the Canada Government. On the 28th July they had sent a remonstrance to the British Government, which was replied to by the despatch of the 23rd November, by which it would appear that the British Government had not understood the mi nute of Council of 28th July, and on the 22nd January last the Canadian Govern. ment wrote another Order-in Council, explaining what they meant. He thought the Government had estimated the feelings and honour of the Canadian people at a much lower value than the people would accept They had, as political gamblers, sried a game of bluff with the British Go vernment; they asked four millions and accepted two and a-half millions, and their object was merely to extort from the British Government. He thought that no man placed in the peculiar position of the Premier should have kept his office for one moment; but they had seen that it was not for so small a matter as the Treaty that the Government were willing to abandon their seats. The President of the Council had stated that reciprocity | ber for West Durham was a distinct conwould be the greatest blessing for Canada; demnation of the Government. The speechbut last year, when it was a question es of the members for Toronto and Peel whether the Legislature would risk their seemed to be mere funeral orations, and seats to support that great blessing, they those gentlemen must have come to the kept their seats, although they said the conclusion that, after the coming elections, question was of the most vital importance. the Premier would not be found in his preIt was the same thing again. The Govern sent position. The hon. gentleman then ment had decided from first to repeated his remarks in French. last to carry the Treaty in or der to obtain the Imperial guar antee. If hon. gentlemen were willing to accept so humiliating a position he was not and he thought he expressed the feelings of a majority of the people of the Dominion, who were not ready to sacrifice the interests of the country for a paltry guarantee. The Minister of Finance asked what he (Mr. Dorion) would have done. He would not have accepted the Treaty for a mere money consideration. He would have acted the manly part of New. foundland and Prince Edward Isiand, and he would have said to England, "The Treaty is not a satisfactory one; but in the interests of the Empire we are willing to accept"; and then afterwards Canada's just claims might have been brought be. fore the people of England, and their sympathies would have been enlisted in her favor, and she would have been met generously. As the matter now stood, however, Ministers would be put to the blush at the elections, for their action in holding the Treaty in one hand and a purse in the other. He read an extact from the Canadian News, to the effect that the brib ing of Canada was equally degrading to those who offered and those who accepted it, and said the writer did not know that the guarantee was asked by the Canadian Government. He would have desired to condemn the action of the Government, and then to support the Treaty; but, after mature consideration, he could only come to the conclusion to condemn the Government and the Treaty also, considering the circumstances under which it was present. ed. He did not believe Canada would always be a colony; but when the time should come for her to assume the position of a nation there could be no greater evil than that she should separate with the ill feeling and coldness of the Mother Country. When the time for separation came, he desired that it should be with England's blessing. He feared, however, that the ac tion of the Ministry would tend to produce an impression in England that Canada was merely selfish, and would make no sacrifice in the interests of the Empire He hoped the amendment of the member for South Oxford would be withdrawn, for it had no meaning whatever, while that of the mem. Mr. A. J. SMITH (Westmoreland, N.B.)— said the question was perhaps the most important that had ever come within the consideration of the House, for it affected our relations with a foreign country as well as our relations with the Fatherland. It seemed to him that it would have been more prudent to have discussed the matter with closed doors, as the Senate of the United States was doing at the present moment; for he feared that, instead of a feeling of patriotism, party political feeling pervaded the discussion, and they knew that the First Minister had stated that the utterances of members might be adduced as evidence before the Commission provided for to decide on the relative value of the Canadian and American fisheries. He desired to say at the outset that he should support the Treaty; but he could not agree that it was fair to Canada. But the question was, whether it was not expedient to adopt it. The responsibility of rejecting it would be great. When it was first announced, was it not received with execration and indignation? If Parlia ment had been called together within three months of its annunciation, he doubted whether five members would have supported it. Since then a great change had taken place, not in respect to the merits of the Treaty, but in respect to the expediency of adopting it, and he could only account for this change by the altercation that arose between England and the United States as to consequential damages, and the consequent feeling of Canada that it would be almost disloyal for her to reject it. He believed, however, that there had scarcely ever been a treaty between England and the United States in which the latter had not the best of it. The only case in which no difficulty arose was the Treaty of 1804, and it would be well to compare that with the present Treaty. In the former, England called to her aid representatives from every Province of British North America. It was not thought for a moment that England would enter into a treaty with the United States upon subjects affecting Canada. This consideration, however, was not extended to us now, and this induced him to believe that the ties binding Canada to the Mother Country were gradually |