the 4 feet 8 guage, then he could inform him that every care had been taken by the Government to ascertain as accurately as possible the best guage for the Intercolonial road. At one end they saw the Grand Trunk and its feeders, some 1,200 or 1,300 miles, and at the other some 300 miles in the Maritime Provinces, and with these facts before them they were forced to decide on continuing one guage throughout. He had supposed that the 4 feet 8guage could have been constructed and worked more cheaply. The opinions of the best engineers in the country, among others, the engineer who had taken part in the reduction of the guage of the Great Western line, had been taken, and they were to the effect that there was no important difference between constructing a 4 feet 8 and a 5 feet 6 inch guage. It was for these reasons that the Government had concluded that it was most expedient for the public interests to adhere to the guage now in general use on the most important lines of communication. So far, certainly, it had never been urged in either branch of the Legislature-never suggested even by professional men of standing that we should build the Intercolonial line on a guage less than 4 feet 84. No one could urge that it would be advisable, with the limited experience we have so far of the extremely narrow guage roads, we should change our system. It was quite possible that the short line of the Festining, only some 14 or 15 miles in length, would be equal to the public requirements in that particular district. An immense number of persons, and a large traffic might go through a small lane, but it was very different when we came to consider the great lines of communication. Perhaps in the course of time the narrow guage system would be adopted, but at present engineers were not quite satisfied on the subject, and it was certainly not advisable for the Canadian Government to try any experiments. Hon. Mr. BOTSFORD contended that he had only followed the practice of the House of Lords in making the remarks he dia. THIRD READING. On motion of Hon. Mr. CAMPBELL, the Bill in reference to Malicious Injuries to Property was read a third time and sent to Commons. House went into Committee, Hon. Mr. Bourinot in Chair, and passed the Bill in reference to Larceny of Stamps with amendments. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, 30th April, 1872. The SPEAKER took the chair at three p.m. ROUTINE BUSINESS. Mr. MACFARLANE presented the report on Standing Orders. Several petitions were presented and read. Mr. MACFARLANE moved, seconded by Mr. BOWEN, that the time for receiving private bills should be extended to the 6th of June, and petitions to the 16th of May. Hon. Mr. CHAUVEAU moved, to in. troduce a Bill, founded on the petition of D. R. Archer for obtaining a patent with reference to a knitting machine and loom. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE thought that the measure of the Government, in the regard to patents would supercede any necessity for this Bill. Hon. Mr. POPE said he would introduce a Bill to amend the Patent Act on Friday. Dr. BOWEN introduced a Bill to incorporate the North Western Railway of Manitoba. Mr. SHANLY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for an Act to incorporate the St. Lawrence International Bridge Company. Dr. GRANT moved for leave to intro. duce a Bill to incorporate the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. Mr. A. MORRISON moved for leave to introduce a Bill to incorporate the Interoceanic Railway Company of Canada. Referred to Committee on Railway. Dr. BOWEN moved for leave to incorporate the Central Railway Company of Manitoba. Hon. Sir GEO. E. CARTIER moved for leave to introduce a Bill to incorporate Montreal, Grand Trunk and Lake Champlain Railroad Co. Mr. MORRISON moved for leave to in troduce a Bill, entitled "An Act to amend the Act incorporating the Western Insurance Co." Mr. MAGILL moved for an Act to amend the Act incorporating the Mutual Life Assurance Company of Canada. Mr. KIRKPATRICK moved for an Act to incorporate the Marine and Fire Insurance Company of Canada. Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS presented two Messages from His Excellency, signed by himself-concerning supplementary es. timates. Hon. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS moved that these Messages of His Excellency the Governor General, be referred to a Com | last the actual net debt was $77,706,517, mittee of the Whole House. Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD laid upon the table papers relating to the seizure of the C. E. Horton. Hon. Mr. LANGEVIN submitted papers relative to the Miramichi bridge. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE stated that the papers relative to the St. Clair Flats Canal had not yet been brought down. Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD asked leave to introduce a Bill to give effect to certain articles of the Washington Treaty. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE wanted some explanation. Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD said that he was merely moving to have the matter put upon the Orders of the Day. Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE said it would necessitate on the part of the Opposition some action which would produce discus sion. Hon. Sir JOHN A. MACDONALD withdrew his motion. THE BUDGET. Sir FRANCIS HINCKS, in moving the House into Committee of Ways and Means, said: Mr. Speaker,-I propose to follow on this occasion the course suggest ed last year by the hon. member for Chateauguay, and to make the financial statement, which it is my duty to submit to the House, while you, sir, are in the chair, upon motion to go into Committee, instead of following the former practice of making that statement while the House is iu Committee. As there are several new members in the House, whose presence we all hail with satisfaction, I think it proper to state on the present occasion, that owing to the time at which the fiscal year terminates, it is necessary to take into consideration the revenue and expenditure of three fiscal years, viz., the year which terminated on the 30th June last, the year now coming near to a close, the results of which can be calculated with tolerable accuracy, and the year for the services of which we are about to ask the House for supplies. I think I may also on this occasion, for the informa tion particularly of new members, make a few remarks with regard to the state of the public debt. An hon. member of this House-indeed, one of the new members -in course of conversation a few days ago, was quite astonished to hear the small amount of the debt, having been under the impression it was much larger. I told him that in round numbers it amounted to about $80,000,000. The last statement showed that on the 30th June but as there were a number of assets, some of which might not be worth par, I may be safer in speaking of it as $80,000,000. I may observe, also, with reference to the debt that there is one feature of it which has caused every year an increase of the gross debt without causing an increase of interest payable on it. That increase arises from the non-settlement of the debt of the old Province of Canada, which has rendered it necessary to keep an open account with the Provinces of Quebec and Ontario, so that an item of about seven and a halt millions of dollars appears on both sides-that is, as a debt and as an asset It, however, involves no charge of interest whatever. The auditor's report on the transactions of the last fiscal year and the appendices will, I hope, be found to present the actual position of were the debt and of the assets in a clearer manner than in former years. The fact that the interest received on the assets is about 20 per cent. on the interest paid must be considered ample proof of their value. The statements regarding the capital expenditure since Confederation cannot but be considered most satisfactory. From them it will appear that during the four years since Confederation there was expended on the Intercolonial Railway, on the purchase of the North West Territory and expenditure consequent thereon, for which loans specially authorized, $7,268,698; also against Public Works chargeable against capital by authority of Parliament $1,130,885. From this latter sum how. ever, an amount was transferred to the Con solidated Fund Revenue account by my direction, because exception was taken in the Committee of Public Accounts to some items, as improper charges against capital. These items amounted to $317,580.12, reducing the expenditure on Public Works chargeable against capital, to $813,205, which added to $7,268,698 gives $8,081,903 as the expenditure on capital account, while the total increase of debt since Confederation has been only $1,977,876, so that $6,104,027.58 has been expended out of our current revenue, on important pub. lic works, and in acquisition of the Notrh West Territory. I may add that though of that large amount, no less than $3,640,248.19 was expended in the year 1870-71, the net debt had decreased for the first time in the history of the coun try, by $503,224 (hear, hear). I may take the opportunity of calling attention to one item among the assets which may possibly tend to relieve the miad of my hon, friend from Lennox, who has on more account. on than one occasion expressed apprehen- that I may reasonably expect criticism sions of embarrassment from our large from the honorable gentlemen opposite, Savings Bank deposits, which I am happy and have no desire to shrink from it, I to say now amount in all the Provinces to will anticipate the charge that my estim. about four and a half millions. There is ates of revenue have turned out wholly held in London $1,362,666 in 5 per cent unreliable. I readily admit that such has Canada bonds specially on Savings been the case, but I have very high au Bank As these bonds thority, no less than that of the discould be turned into money tinguished statesman who is Chancellor of at any moment and drawn against, and the Exchequer in England for maintain. as they are above 25 per cent of the ing that it would be most unsafe for a aggregate Savings Bank deposits, I Minister to make a mere speculative should imagine that no alarm need be estimate, and to ignore that furnished by felt on that account. I will now refer, officers whose special duty it is to make and I hope for the last time to the attacks themselves acquainted with facts. The made on the Government on account of gentleman to whom I refer was placed in the policy of my predecessor with refer- rather an embarrassing position, inasmuch ence to the investment of the proceeds of as he had in previous years made too low the first half of the Intercolonial Railway an estimate of revenue by something like Loan. On the first of July, 1869, we held | £2,000,000 stg., and had, in order to meet in Exchequer Bills, $6,575,410.05, or in the anticipated deficiency, put on an inother words, the Consolidated Revenue come tax against the remonstrances of was in debt that amount to the Railway some gentlemen in the House who told Commissioners. On 1st July, 1870, the him his estimate was a great deal too Exchequer Bills were reduced to $2,224,- low. It turned out as they stated, and 353, and on 1st July, 1871, there were next year he had to come down and adno Exchequer Bills, but mit that the gentlemen who had criticized the contrary the Consolidated Fund his estimates were more correct than he was largely in advance to the railway ac- was. He thus certainly found himself in count. Of course this amount is changing an embarrassing position --one much more day after day, but always in the direction embarrassing than I put myself in; last of increased indebtedness to the Consoli- year when I stated my expectations of dated Fund. The last statement I have revenue the hon. member for Sherbrooke had, was up to the 16th of this month (Sir Alexander Galt) admitted that they when we had paid $8,612,492 on that ac- were reasonable and no exception was count leaving only $1,120,841 of the taken to them. I had made a very fair amount raised, being the half of the whole estimate. I will say, moreover, that erroloan. We have in deposit in the Bank of neous calculations in estimates are of Montreal on Intercolonial Railway account far less importance in Canada than in bearing interest, $4,500,000, so that the England. In England, as we all know, Intercolonial Railway owes the Consolida- there is an enormous public debt of £750,ted Fund $3,379,159. Again we have in000,000 sterling, which was contracted London $3,000,000, or to speak more cor- ages ago for the defence of the country, rectly, £600,000 sterling in Imperial and handed down from generation to Guaranteed Bonds and Canada 5 per generation. Public opinion in England cents, half of each issued on North West has long since settled down against makaccount, which we can place in the marketing any attempt to reduce the capital of at any moment that we please, and in addition to these amounts we have about one million of dollars in Bank deposit receipts bearing interest. I hold therefore that our financial position is impregnable (hear, hear). I shall now proceed to the consideration of the accounts of the year which terminated on 30th June, 1872. In the estimates of last year, as submitted by me, I anticipated an aggregate revenue of $17,360,000. The actual result has been a revenue of $19,. 335,560.81, or an excess of revenue of $1,975,560.81. On the other hand the actual expenditure has been only $15,623,081.72, so that the aggregate surplus on the year is $3,712,479 09. As I am well aware that debt. It is considered that the people should not be taxed beyond the amount necessary to pay the interest and the ordinary expenses of Government. It is to be recollected that our debt is not contracted for such purposes as the debt of England is contracted, but for objects which will be more beneficial to the generations to follow us (hear, hear) than they are to us. If I had anticipated that the result would have been as it has turned out, I would not have been prepared to come forward under the circum-stances to propose any further reduction of taxation. It will be recollected that last year we reduced taxation by the abo lition of the 5 per ct. duty, equal to about $500,000, and that afterwards at the Woollens in 1869... instance of the House, without doubt from the pressure of the House, we had 66 1870 66 1870. .354,934 .466,525 1869. .158,568 1870. .192,185 1871.....305,995 I will not weary the House with further details, but under the 19 heads of revenue the collections were In 1869... In 1871 .$6,827,754 I may state that consequently more than one half customs revenue is derived from 5 sources, viz: spirits, tea, sugar, mo lasses, cotton, and woolen manufactures, and that those articles gave In 1869.. to take off other duties which might be Iron and Hardware in 1869. .$5,318,145 As I said before, I readily admit that I would not have ventured to anticipate such increases as these, or to have come down to this House with an estimate call. ing upon them to vote money calculated upon such an increase. With regard to the savings upon expenditure it will be found that, as usual, the principal saving is under the head of Public Works. There is always great difficulty in estimating with anything like exactness the amount that can be expended in a year, and I have no doubt that my honourable colleague, the Minister of Public Works, will endorse the statement made a few weeks ago by the same distinguished statesman to whom I have before referred, on this point. When accounting for deficiency of expenditure, he said, "it was chiefly due $810,019 to buildings, the expenditure on which is 901,547 necessarily very uncertain. A number of 1,024,287 | things prevent us going on with buildings 37,126 as fast as we expect, all sorts of obstacles The charges on revenue 55,372 must arise." 108,115 were $165,000 less than the estimate, and 916,177 the Militia expenditure, $160,000. I need 1,140,648 not go further into the minor items, as 1,157,315 they will all be found in detail in the 129,178 public accounts. I now come to the con170,547 sideration of the revenue for the current 195,181 year, and it is satisfactory to be able to state that notwithstanding the reductions of last year, which we may assume at 1,476,531 about $800,000, the revenue will be rather 1,846,774 in excess of the last, even making allow 1,933,154 ance for British Columbia. I estimated the Customs revenue at ten millions, 1,107,003 which I considered at the time a very fulĺ 1,100,998 estimate. It will reach $12,500,000, when. 1,361,579 I state that, notwithstanding the great increase of 1871 over 1870, the increase in 1872 will be $220,000 in woollens, $130,000 in cotton, $25,000 in wines, $75,000 in spirits, it may be expected that when British Columbia is added, that we have made a safe calculation. The Inland Revenue will give $250,000 above the estimate; the Public Works, $200,000; Post Office, $80.000; Stamps, $30,000; Miscellaneous, $150,000; or in round numbers, $3,240,000 above the estimate; giving an aggregate revenue for the current year of $20,050,000 (hear, hear). It is satisfactory to say that not only in Customs and Excise, but in all branches there has been an increase. In the statement which was submitted to the House of the expenditure up to the latest moment for which the return could be made, the 31st March last, it will be found that there was an expenditure up to that time of $11,620,695. The estimated expenditure to the close of the year is not likely to exceed $4,874,838, giving $16,495.533 for the whole year. To this must be added the supplementary estimate for the current year which I have laid on the table which will amount to $438,999 chargeable against Revenue, and $250,000 for the Pacific Railway Survey. I may observe that of the charges against revenue in the statement sent down, the principal items are $35,000 for Indian annuities under recent treaties; $50,000 for losses, in Manitoba; $70,000 for Surveys, and $35,000 for the Manitoba Expeditionary Force. The aggregate expenditure for the current year is not likely to exceed $17,040,695, and 1 therefore venture to anticipate a surplus for the present year of, $3,115,467 (cheers). I now approach the consideration of the year which is to come and can only say that in framing my estimates, I have taken all the care in my power to arrive at correct conclusions. I need scarcely say I have consulted my colleagues the Ministers of Customs and Inland Revenue, who are at the head of the departments which furnish the bulk of the revenue. I feel I am justified in estimating Customs at $12,500,000; Inland Revenue at $4 625.000; Stamps at $200,000; Post Office $700.000; Railroads. Telegraph lines, and Manitoba road $1,030,000; Canals and other works $580,000; Miscellaneous $1,000,000; giving an aggregate revenue of 20,630,000 dollars. I shall refer very briefly to the Estimates. The aggregate amount is $29,675,460, but from this must be deducted the amount required to meet reduction of debt, $92,234, and capital expended on proposed public works, amounting in the aggregateto $10,042,734, leaving estimates chargeable against Consolidated Revenue Fund 19,632,726 dollars. I might, therefore, fairly contemplate a surplus next year of about one million, were it not that my experience leads me to anticipate sunplementary estimates, which I hope, howe ver will not be excessive. I do not intend to comment at any length on the Estima. tes. I feel assured they will be scrutinized with great care by gentlemen opposite. I do not wish to enter into details with respect to items, because my hon. friends at the heads of departments, who had brought forward estimates and were more particularly responsible for them, will be prepared to vindicate them better than I can do; but at the same time I would remind the House that for many years, when the revenue was scarcely sufficient to meet the expenditure absolutely necessary, a great part of the public service was literally starved. It is now a fitting time when our finances are in a more prosperous condition, to come forward to erect those necessary public buildings which in various parts of the Dominion are absolutely essential (hear.) The Public Works estimate may appear large by comparison of the aggregate amount with former years, and it may be admitted that if any difficulty should arise, many buildings and works might be postponed, but I hope and believe that the House will concur with the Goverment in thinking that when the revenue is sufficient to meet the charges upon it, they ought to seize the opportunity of erecting buildings very much required for the public service. There is another point to which I wish to refer. In the estimate for Public Works are included a number of items which, though charged against the current revenue of the year, will produce an income and entail* no burden on the country, such as harbours and other works. The lighthouse service is no doubt a heavy charge, but it must be borne in mind that every individual in the country is interested in this service by which the navigation is improved. We are competing for the trade of the Great West, and cannot succeed if we neglect what is essential to success. The Gulf and River St. Lawrence has had a bad name in days gone by. Insurance rates were high and freights, of course, high in proportion. My hon. colleague the Minister of Marine and Fisheries, is thoroughly alive to the wants of the trade, and I can state from my own knowledge that several of his proposed works would have been in former estimates, but that we did not |