The question was not a political one, but should be discussed carefully and on its merits. Not one fourth part of the rolling stock which would be necessary was yet constructed, and therefore though a large amount had been expended, would it not be better to stop further expenditure until the matter was definitely settled? As to the difficulty alluded to by the Minister of Public Works that a narrow gauge would necessitate a transshipment at Windsor, that was a matter of no weight, for there was already the same difficulty on the Grand Trunk. Every one knew the immense advantage derived from the New York Central, the Great Western, the Michigan Central and other lines, having a uniform gauge, the result of which was that cars from Hamilton could be seen west of St. Paul. He had understood the Minister of Public Works to intimate that the Pacific Railway would to That road be built on the narrow gauge. would have to connect with roads in On. tario and Quebec, and must, to form a great trans.continental line, have some Atlantic terminus, which could not be done unless the gauge of the Intercolonial were changed. There was a project to build a road from Quebec to Ottawa, to join ultimately the Pacific, and that road would doubtless be on the narrow gauge. It was intended also to construct a bridge over the St. Lawrence at Quebec, and with this accomplished there would only be some 140 miles of the Grand Trunk before the Intercolonial was reached at Riviere du Loup, and with this distance changed to the narrow gauge they would have if the resolution were carried out a continuous narrow gauge line from east west. As to changing the Government roads in the Maritime Provinces he thought the sum of $1,000,000 named by the Minister of Public Works as necessary for that purpose must be a great exaggeration. The only difficulty in the matter seemed to be the interposition of the Grand Trunk, and the fact of that line not being in a financial position to change its gauge. He believed overtures had been made to the Government to assist them to effect that change, but in the present state of the indebtedness of that line to the country, the country would scarcely be disposed to lend the money required for a change of gauge. He thought it questionable whether it was not, after all, the wisest course to adopt that measure at once which the member for Grenville, the highest author. ity in the House, considered an inevitable necessity at an early day. Mr. SHANLY had not heard what the Minister of Public Works had said of the cost of changing the gauge of the lines in the Lower Provinces but thought $1,000,000 might very easily be used in such a work: Mr. WORKMAN (Montreal) said it might be considered presumption in him to speak after the member for Grenville, but he had given great consideration to the matter. He was decidedly in favor tioned the Great Western, the Ohio and of the narrow gauge principle. He menMississippi, and the Erie Railways, as instances of the great good resulting from the broad gauge having been changed. It was almost universally admitted that the narrow gauge would have to be ultimately adopted, and therefore the sooner it was done the better. He had listened with great attention to the Minister of Public Works, who had made out a very good case, and had almost convinced him, but still he thought it would be best to meet the matter at once. He had heard that what rolling stock had been constructed, had been done in such a way that it could be adapted to the narrow gauge with very little expense, and if such was the case a great difficulty would be removed. He weight of the cars and locomotive used believed on good authority that the great on the Grand Trunk occasioned immense and accidents now so frequent would be wear and tear, and he believed the delays to a great exsent avoided under a narrow gauge system. He trusted the question would receive the careful consideration of the House, and though serious expendi. ture might be involved, yet he understood only some twenty miles of line had yet been laid. If the line were to form a part in a continuous system from Halifax to Vancouver's Island, the gauge must be narrow. Mr. MAGILL said that the narrow gauge had almost carried in the House last Session, and the member for Grenville now stated it to be the gauge of the continent, and this being so he considered it would be much easier to change now when the road was only partially coustructed than when it should be completed. He also referred to the Great Western as an argument in favor of narrow gauge. He hoped the Government would not be frightened at the expense, but would yield to the imperative desire of the country. It was comparatively a small matter to narrow a gauge. The Grand Trunk would change theirs if they could, and the time would arrive when they would do so. He hoped the motion would pass. Hon. Mr. HOWE admitted that the argument of the member for Grenville, in favor of narrow gauge was unanswerable, and if there were no difficulties there would be no difference of opinion, but a change in the gauge of the Intercolonial would be a gross breach of faith and honor with the Maritime Provinces. In those Provinces the roads were broad gauge, and a different gauge on the Intercolonial would deprive Nova Scotia and New Brunswick of all benefit from that line. Hon. Mr. BOLTON thought the importance of the matter justifiedja full discussion. He had listened with great pleasure to the statement of the Minister of Public Works, whose arguments were very strong and almost convincing,-but that hon. gentleman had overlooked the value of the Railway connection between Halifax and the United States. It was only a question of time as to the broad gauge lines being narrowed, and before the Intercolonial was complete there would be a narrow gauge line into St. John. The broad gauge stock constructed for the Intercolonial could very well be used on the present broad gauge lines and he should therefore support the motion on the ground of economy as well as expediency. Mr. STREET thought it unfortunate that the narrow gauge had not been adopted in the first instances of Railway construction, but he did not see how it would be possible with prudence to dis turb the gauge of the Intercolonial, considering the great difficulties in the way of doing so. Contracts were already heavy, and the Government would have to keep them no matter what advantage there might be in change,-then a very large expenditure would be necessary to change the gauge of the roads in the Lower Provinces, and he did not think they should be prepared to throw upon the country the great burden of these ex penses. The Grand Trunk would have to form a portion of the communication, and there was no reason to believe that that Company would change their gauge, for their means would not admit of their doing so; and certainly he did not think Parliament was prepared to help them to do sa. For these reasons he was not in favor of the motion. Mr. WALSH said the question presented itself to his mind in two aspects-convenience and economy. Most of the gentlemen who had spoken had referred to the great advantage of lines connecting with each other having a uniform gauge, and consequently he thought the Intercolonial should be uniform in gauge with those lines with which it connected. It connected at every point with broad gauge lines, and therefore on the ground of convenience it also should be broad. It had also been forcibly point. ed out that if the Intercolonial were broad gauge the Lower Provinces would have a uniform gauge from east to west, whereas otherwise there would have to be a breakage at each end of the Intercolonial, and therefore, on the ground of convenience, the broad gauge should be adhered to. As to the question of economy the House would remember that the contracts had been let out on the principle of lump sums, and therefore, as the contractor would be entitled to that lump sum whether a broad or narrow line were built, a change would not save one dollar on the contracts. Then, again, a large number of platform and box cars had been constructed which could not be changed, and therefore a change would involve the loss of the whole cost of their construction. As to locomotives, forty were under contract; but after the vote of last year, instructions had been given that they should be so built as to be capable of change when necessary. He considered, under these circumstances, that they would not consult the convenience of the trade and commerce of the country by changing the gauge at the present time, while nothing would be saved in construct. ing the line, but the additional cost of changing the stock would be incurred. Taking into account the character of the country through which the line would pass, and the obstacles it would encounter in winter, he could not admit that the narrow gauge would be the more suitable. He referred to the fact that during the past winter the St. Lawrence and Ottawa, a narrow gauge line, had often been blocked by snow, while the Brockville and Ottawa, a broad gauge, had remained unobstructed, though he would not state that this was altogether on account of the difference of gauge. He thought that economy and convenience required that the old gauge should be adhered to, though when the time came that the Grand Trunk should change its gauge, the Intercolonial might be changed also. As Hon. Mr. McDOUGALL, (Lanark) was very glad the question was again before the House, though he scarcely expected the resolution would be confirmed. to the broad gauge lines encountering the winter season better than the narrow gauge lines such an idea had proved to be purely imaginary. He thought the matter should be thoroughly investigated as to which gauge was best, and the House would then be better able to decide whether the change should be made, and he would desire to have the matter referred to a committee of the House which could examine Engineers and Railway Managers, and ascertain the true facts of the matter. He thought the argument of the last speaker that a broad gauge was more suitable to overcome the diff culties occasioned by snow, was met by his admission that the gauge would ultimately have to be narrow, for certainly time would not change the snow, and he believed the narrow gauge was equally able to contend against snow with the broad gauge for the increased breadth and consequent increased resistance, entirely counterbalanced any increase of motion power. To him the question seemed a large one, involving a great outlay of money, and the public interest would be best served by a thorough examination. As to the argument that the Grand Trunk, being a broad gauge, required that the Intercolonial should be so also, he could not see its force, for he apprehended each road would have to use its own rolling stock and if so there might as well be a transfer from a broad to a narrow gauge car as from one broad gauge car to another. As to the cars already constructed he agreed with the suggestion that they could be used on other Government broad gauge roads. The whole question was one for investigation, calculation. and decision on evidence, and the House was not in a position to decide the matter now. It would be very awkward if, in some years to come, it was found that in the face of the whole experience of the railways America and Western Canada the House had continued a construction of a gauge altogether inferior and more expensive. He had great confidence in private rail. ways and he hoped that the House would not deal with the question on party grounds, and that Government would not adhere to their previous decision if full enquiry should result in a decision in favour of a narrow gauge. of Hon. Mr. BLANCHET said his indivi dual opinion was in favour of the parrow gauge, but he could not take the responsibility of involving the country in so great an expense as was implied in a change of gauge under present circumstances. More. over he could not admit that the narrow gauge was the gauge of the continent. The railways of the Northern States had a wide gauge, and those of the Southern States had generally the same gauge. It being six o'clock the House rose. AFTER RECESS. INSOLVENCY LAWS. The House resumed the adjourned debate on the proposed motion of Mr. Colby for the second reading of the Act to repeal the Insolvency Laws, and the motion of the Hon. Mr. Cameron (Peel), in amendment thereto. Mr. MAGILL said he was in favour of the repeal of the Insolvency Law. After an experience in business, extending over a period of thirty-one years, it was his candid opinion that the law tended to demoralize honest traders and worked to to the advantage of the dishonest and fraudulent. Men should be made to feel the responsibility of their obligations, and not be allowed to fall back upon the Insolvency Law. He thought that any man who could show an honest record would be liberally dealt with by his creditors. He was satisfied that every honest trader was in favor of the repeal of responsible for the obligations he entered the law, and he would hold every man into. Mr. SCRIVER, from experience, had arrived at the conclusion that the law in force had a great many imperfections. He had seen many instances in which estates, when wound up, had not produced the satisfactory results hoped for, but, at the same time, he thought an insolvency law was necessary in order that creditors should be protected. Should the law be repealed altogether, the fortunate creditor who might happen to be on the spot would get the lion's share, and the others would have to take what they could get. to The hon mover of the motion had in ef- Mr. YOUNG remembered something of the state of things prevailing throughout Ontario before the present law, those were the days of preferential assignments when a single creditor seized the whole of the goods. He thought the motion was altogether too sweeping,-they should en. deavor to correct the errors in the law, but not reject the principle altogether. One honorable gentleman had stated that cases of insolvency were increasing rapidly, and where there were five hundred insol. vents before the passing of the law there are a thousand now, but the honorable gentleman must have drawn on his imagination, as there were only three hundred insolvents gazetted last year, and for the quarter ended 31st March last there were only 114 against 133 for the same period last year. He attributed many of the on the not to dishonesty failures, part of debtors, but tɔ the lax manner in which importers conducted their business. He thought the law had had the effect of restricting credit, and causing more cash transactions. Unless an Insolvent could pay 50cts in the dollar, he could not get a discharge for three years, and if he could pay 75cts in the dollar he could get his dis charge in one year, so that the tendency of the law was to induce a man to take advan. tage of the Insolvency Court while his estate would give a dividend to his credi. tors, instead of struggling along until it was eaten up altogether. The argument had generally been in favour of amending the law instead of repealing it, and many members who last year voted for the re peal would support the Bill this year. With one exception, not a petition in favour of repeal had been laid on the table. He thought the Government should have stated their views, and the side they intended to take in the matter. If the law was repealed, the table would, in less than a year be flooded with petitions for its re-enactment. It should be remembered that the measure expires next year, and he could not see that anything would be gained by putting an end to it this session. It should at least have a fair trial so that they could see its effect. He trusted the Bill of the hon. member for Stanstead would not pass, but that it would be referred to the Committee on Banking and Commerce, or other means taken to introduce those amendments which time and experience had shown to be necessary. considered a Mr. BELLEROSE bankruptcy law necessary, but the pre. sent law required many amendments, and he moved that the debate be adjourned to the 9th May. on Mr. KIRKPATRICK thought the Insolvency Act as at present encourages fraud. Wholesale merchants send out their agents who force their wares country dealers, thus overstocking them, the result being in many cases a bankrupt stock, which does not trouble the wholesale dealer very much, as he is sure of getting his share, while the honest and solvent trader is injured by the sale of the bankrupt stock at reduced rates. He was perplexed as to how his vote Mr. McDONALD (Antigonish) did not He Hon. Mr. MACKENZIE did not intend to discuss the particulars of the Bill further, but he thought that putting it off for a fortnight was practically killing it, and he would ask honorable gentlemen who were opposed to the measure to take a vote upon it. The sense of the House had been tested last session when a majority gave an opinion in favor of the measure now before the House, and he be lieved that if members voted according to their convictions the same opinion would now prevail. The proposal of the honorable member for Peel was simply to kill' the bill, and it would be much better to take a direct negative vote than to make an amendment that said practically that the bill of the member for Stanstead was one that ought not to pass. Some legis. lation might be necessary, either by this House or the Local Legislature, in order more equitable to give effect to some mode of effecting the distribution of bankrupt estates. That question would | his argument was, simply, that a bank. have to be met either here or there, but ruptcy law was justifiable in certain con. he did not think that a sufficient reason ditions of trade, as a general amnesty was for refusing to repeal the present bank- justifiable after war, but that it should not ruptcy laws. That could be provided for be allowed to remain on the statute book when the difficulty arose. He had after the exigencies which required it had watched the operation of the law for passed away. The law had never worked many years and had come to the con. well either in England or Canada. The clusion that it was not a benefi-cial law. defect was not in the machinery, it was an Although the Act expired of itself in a inherent defect in the law itself as adopted very short time, a general demand had to the present condition of affairs. It was arisen in the County for immediate conducive to fraud and the lowering of the repeal, as it practically enriched the offi- standard of business honor and integrity. cial assignees at the expense of the cre- He had listened to the argument of those ditors. This was the experience of all, learned gentlemen, the hon. members but perhaps a few wholesale merchants, for Megantic, West Durham and who have found the Act conducive to Peel, gentlemen of high legal their interests. He believed that an ab. standing in the country, and he found solute injustice was done to the majority that they all agreed that the law was deof the people by its operation, and he fective, but differed as to the nature of would assist to the utmost in his power in the amendments required. But still they obtaining a repeal of the law. He admit thought it should be allowed to remain ted that other measures would be neces- on the statute book. He contended that sary, and he was prepared to give them an a law which did not apply to non-traders earnest consideration; but the amend- as well as traders was not sound in prinments made from time to time had sim-ciple, and he would like to hear any adply resulted in making the Act more expensive in its operation, and more difficult to understand. For these reasons he hoped that all who were in favor of an alteration in the law in the sense he had indicated would vote against the motion of the member for Peel, and the amendment of the member for Laval. he Mr. COLBY was not insensible to the importance of the question. He had ap. proached the consideration of the question purely in the interests of the country; had no personal interest in the matter, except that interest which every honorable member should take in a subject of this kind. Although he had been entrusted with the management of the Bill, he had not taken advantage of thin benches or surprise votes to press the matter. After all he had heard, his convictions that the law was a bad one were not lessened, but the principles which he had laid down in his opening remarks had been in his opinion fully confirmed. He had contend ed that an Insolvency Law should only be temporary in its character, and this view had not been met in a manner to induce him to change his opinion. He regretted that his honourable friend from Brome, who agreed with him in his general views on this question had not an op portunity of quoting as ne hid intended certain authorities on the nature of a Bankrupt Law as viewed in the United States and in England, which would be found to bear out his views. Having quoted these authorities, the honorable gentleman proceeded to say that vocate of this law say that he would be willing to see it applied to non-traders. He did not believe with the honorable members from Montreal that this law was a favorite law with the commercial classes of the country. The merchants of Quebec, Three Rivers, and St. Hyacinthe, he believed, did not approve of the law, and the great commercial cities of Ottawa, Kingston, and Hamilton have already spoken or will speak against it. The retail traders were all against it. The member for one of the Wards in Montreal had read a letter from a high authority in that city to the effect that the mercantile community were in favor of the bankrupt law. He would take the liberty of referring to a letter from the same correspondent to the effect that the insolvency laws had been a failure and a hardship to creditors, and that their losses since 1864 had been fully 50 per cent. more than they were previously. He also read letters from Montreal as to the action of the Board of Trade to show that it in no way represented the feeling of Montreal, and questioned the grounds of the member for Montreal changing his vote, because of the action of the Boards of Trade. He said he spoke earnestly be cause he felt warmly that the law should should not continue, but was quite willing that there should be a law enacted as a substitute which should properly meet the requirements of the country. He was also prepared to endeavour to frame a law for the relief of the honest lebtor. It was coolly proposed to send his Bill to a Com |