H. OF R.] Harbor Bill. [JUNE 18, 1834. cumulation of more timber, and the repetition of the ex- Mr. McKINLEY, of Alabama, said he was in favor of pense of collecting and transporting hands, would pro- the amendment. He attached great weight to the letter bably cost the Government not less than $200,000. By of Mr. Shreve, which had been read by the honorable this short-sighted saving, the country would have to pay gentleman from Louisiana, [Mr. GARLAND.] He had far double for the same benefit. The Government must be the more confidence in his estimates and opinions than in loser. Had it not been shown that, by the expenditure those of any engineer, however scientific; because he of this $100,000, the Government would gain millions from was a practical man. He had had experience. He did the body of land drained and brought into market? He not speak from theory merely. All his estimates were hoped, therefore, the friends of economy in the House founded on an intimate personal and practical knowledge would vote the sum at once, and be done with it. of the subject; and he thought that $100,000 could be Mr. VINTON said that he had voted for this amend-well applied, and that it would finish this great improvement in Committee of the Whole, but he should now vote against concurring; and, lest this might be considered as an evidence of inconsistency or fickleness, he begged, in a few words, to state the reasons which had occasioned this change in his determination. ment during the present year. Could there be true economy in refusing the sum, he asked, especially while the raft was growing in size every day? The difference was but $70,000, and for this sum the Government would have such a body of rich land brought into market as The effect of this improvement, when carried to comple- was no where else to be found. But the gentleman from tion, would be to throw open 70 or 100 miles of country Ohio [Mr. VINTON] was very apprehensive that, if the to sale and settlement, which was now overflowed and raft should be cut through, settlers would immediately uninhabitable. This vast tract would be opened in a new push into the lands and get pre-emption rights. But he and wild country, where there were no inhabitants, and would ask the gentleman what inducement could any which lay on the utmost verge of settlement, beyond the man have to go into land in the condition this was in, and range of population as now existing. Under this view must be in for a long time to come? Would they go and he had voted for the increased appropriation; because, if settle in the water, among snakes and alligators? He this work of clearing out the channel of the river was to rather believed not. The squatter could do nothing on go on at all, it might as well, and better, be done at once such lands. As soon as they were thrown open, they than protracted for years. On making inquiry from gen- would be purchased by the cotton growers; by men who tlemen who possessed the local knowledge, he had learn-wished a body of land together, not a little lot such as ed that the country immediately above this raft contained would suit a squatter. one of the finest bodies of cotton lands in the world; and There was, therefore, nothing in the gentleman's arguhe had become satisfied that these lands, when drained ment; and it presented no good reason for any man's changand exposed to sale, would bring from $8 to $15 an acre, ing his vote who had voted in favor of the amendment. and thus pour into the treasury a very large amount of The body of land to be drained would bring in a large money, perhaps ten millions of dollars. But, since the amount of money to the treasury. Had this raft been rebill had been up in Committee of the Whole, the House moved, and this fine body of fertile lands thus brought had passed another bill which had entirely changed the into market thirty years ago, they would have paid off whole aspect of the subject, and had removed every mo- more of the public debt, even supposing them to have tive which had induced him to vote for this appropriation. brought no more than one dollar and twenty-five cents an He alluded to the bill granting the right of pre-emption acre, than they would now at five dollars. There was to actual settlers, or squatters, on the public domain. And another bill, reported from the land committee, for gradhe did not now hesitate to believe that, should this raft be uating the price of the public lands, and selling some at removed, and that rich body of cotton lands be thrown twenty-five cents an acre: and if such a bill had passed open to the sun, every acre of the entire tract would im- fifteen years ago, enough land might have been sold to mediately be taken up at the minimum price. No soon-pay off the public debt. Was the Government to hold er would an acre of this rich soil be drained, than that in-up its land for ever? And for what? To get more than one stant there would be a squatter upon it, claiming the right dollar and twenty-five cents as an average price for it? It of buying it at the Government price. Did any gentle was a vain expectation. The thing could not be done. man remind him that the pre-emption law was limited in But was it indeed the policy of gentlemen to keep the its duration? He knew it was limited. But, did gentle- poor and industrious citizens of this country, the hardy men, did any gentleman, seriously believe that it would pioneers who were prepared to brave the dangers and not be re-enacted, and continue to be re-enacted from privations of the wilderness, from becoming freeholders? year to year, so as, in fact, to be perpetual? Was not the If that was their desire, let them avow it boldly like men; principle openly justified? And would not the arguments let the people understand it. [Mr. McKINLEY was here for it be as good one year as another? The squatters were called to order by Mr. HUBBARD, on the ground that he favorities with some gentlemen in that House, and always was discussing and defending the bill to graduate the prices would be. of the public lands, which bill was not now before the House.] He therefore repeated his prediction, that the moment this country was at all accessible, it would be penetrated Mr. McK. excused himself by observing that he had in all directions by adventurers, who would be stimulated been cut off from his privilege of discussing that bill when by the hope of getting land worth $10 an acre for $1 25. it was up, by its having been hastily laid upon the table, If such was to be the result, and must be the result, he and as the present bill presented what he deemed a fair saw no longer any inducement to go on with the work of opportunity of discussing the principle, he had availed opening the river. Let it remain as it was till the regu- himself of it accordingly. He insisted that, upon the lar advance of settlement should bring population into the vicinity; then the work could be done at half the cost; then the laborers and the supplies would be on the spot; now they had to be brought from a great distance, and at an enormous expense. Seeing that there were no commercial purposes to be accomplished by the improvement, and no financial benefits to be derived from its prosecution at this time, let it lie over. He was not for giving $100,000 from the treasury, to be put in the pockets of individuaj land speculators. question of the benefits to be derived from opening this raft and draining the lands above, the general question of the value of the public lands was fairly open. Whoever examined the subject must be convinced that nothing would so greatly promote the public happiness as bringing settlers upon our public lands. It conduced to a general equality among the citizens, which was the life of a republic. By removing the obstruction in one of the finest rivers in the West, a body of land, containing more than a million of acres, would be brought into public sale, and JUNE 18, 1834.] Harbor Bill. [H. or R. would bring two millions, at least, into the treasury. It on; yet the gentleman told the House that laborers and was true economy to bring these lands into market as provisions would have to be sent on from Kentucky. speedily as possible; because, from their quality, their Mr. VINTON: I said no such thing; I said not one word immediate sale would be certain, and the money realized. about their being brought from Kentucky, or any thing And would the House, for the petty consideration of the like it. The gentleman is wholly mistaken; he has mis$70,000 difference in one item of this bill, retard such a represented me altogether. result, and subject the country to double and treble expense in effecting the improvement itself? He trusted a wiser policy would prevail. How As Mr. EWING disclaimed any intention to misrepresent the gentleman from Ohio. If the gentleman had not expressly said what he had represented him as saying, he Mr. LANE, of Indiana, entreated gentlemen who op- had said so impliedly; he had intended to say so. posed this amendment to recollect that the raft, through ever, as the gentleman now disclaimed any thing of the which this opening was to be effected, consisted of a vast kind, Mr. E. stood corrected. The gentleman, at any body of trees, which had floated down the stream of the rate, had said that the work would cost three times as river, and, having lodged and become immovable, occa-much now as it would when the country should be settled. sioned a daily and hourly accumulation of other trees He had said, however, that settlers were flocking there floating from above; the raft was thus constantly enlarg-in great numbers; and yet the gentleman had declared ing itself, and consequently the expense of its removal that the country was an uninhabited wilderness, beyond was continually growing greater and greater. It had been the verge of population. Now, Mr. E. should suppose stated by the gentleman from Louisiana, within whose that, while the men were poor, they would work cheaper district this obstruction was in part situated, that so great and sell cheaper than when they had got in possession of was the amount of the timber thus constantly brought down these rich lands, and brought them into full cultivation. by the current of the river from above, that the raft ex-As men grew rich they were apt to grow indolent. tended itself up the stream at the rate of three miles a to the land question, which had been introduced by the year. As soon as a cut of sufficient size should have been gentleman from Alabama, [Mr. MCKINLEY,] he should effected quite through it, the trees floating above would not investigate it, as he thought it had nothing to do with no longer be stopped in their course, but would pass down the present debate. Nor could he agree in the opinion with the stream. It was obvious, however, that, in this re-entertained by some gentleman, in disparagement of those spect, till all was done, nothing was done. The impediment who went to settle on public lands. Some men placed above would continue to increase, and the land beyond it the distinctions of society in the pocket, not in nerve and would continue to be overflowed. But, no sooner should sinew, and hardy daring, and indefatigable perseverance. a passage be made for the water, and for the trees and But, under no circumstances should Mr. E. fail to sustain branches floating upon it, than the draining of the country the cause of these valuable, though much abused men. would immediately commence, and rapidly proceed, until a So far from grudging them their little tracts of land at vast extent of the richest alluvial soil would be thrown open the Government price, he was in favor of going to a to cultivation, and brought under the industry and enter-greater extent than any bill which had yet been brought prise of man. For every dollar expended in removing before the House. The doctrine he held, and his sincerthis raft, the Government would get back ten, fifteen, and ity in holding it, would be put to the test when the bill to twenty dollars; and why, therefore, should they hesitate which he had allusion should come in from the land comat once to appropriate a sum sufficient to accomplish the mittee. In the meanwhile, he hoped the House would object? One word to the gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. not spend more time in the present debate. VISTON] That gentleman appeared to have a great horror of the idea that these lands should be taken up by settlers at the Government price; now it would not change Mr. L.'s vote if he could be assured that every acre of the entire tract would be thus disposed of. The gentleman's argument amounted to this: that the Government ought to speculate upon her own citizens. This was a doctrine against which Mr. L. entered his solemn protest; it was to act. a monstrous doctrine-unjust, impolitic, and utterly dis- Mr. VINTON said that if the gentleman from Penngraceful to any Government that would act upon it-that sylvania [Mr. SUTHERLAND] had heard all that could be a Government, erected for the common good, should un- said on the subjeet before the House, he enjoyed an addertake to speculate upon the members of its own family!vantage over him, (Mr. V.,) who had been part of the make money out of the wants and enterprise of the poor time detained from his seat. In briefly stating the reaand industrious portion of its own inhabitants! Those men sons which had induced him to change his vote, he had against whom the gentleman had directed his invectives had no intention of opening the general question of the were among the most valuable members of any commu- sale and settlement of our public lands. One gentleman nity; they penetrated into the wild forest; they left the had said that the more squatters went upon these lands comforts of the more populous settlements to brave the the cheaper provisions would be, and the more readily horrors of the wilderness; they endured its dangers and the work might be done. That might be true if settlers its privations, and encountered years of tedious labor, that moved into these swamps, bringing their flocks, herds, they might earn a home for themselves and their children. and cornfields along with them. Otherwise, he did not Their adventurous industry induced others to follow them. see much force in the observation. Now, it seemed that They opened roads and bridged the streams, and thus nobody pretended or expected that these lands were to rendered the public lands accessible to settlements, and bring more than one dollar and a quarter, or, at the most, brought a constant stream of money into the treasury. two dollars. But very different language had been held Mr. EWING, of Indiana, declared himself to be in fa- when the amendment had first been moved. Then the vor of the amendment now proposed; and said that, if he House had been told that Government was to receive ten had entertained any doubts of its propriety, the reasons millions of dollars, and that the lands were to sell at 15 urged by the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. VINTON] against or 20 dollars an acre. It was urged, however, that it would have been sufficient to have induced him to vote in its favor. The gentleman, it seemed, apprehended that settlers would immediately rush into that part of the country, and, according to him, many had already gone Mr. SUTHERLAND reminded the House that they were now within ten or twelve days of the close of the session, and that if, by continuing to debate this bill, they should delay its passage much longer, it would be too late to give it a hearing in the other House. The House bad now, he believed, heard all that could be said about the cutting of this raft; and he hoped they would proceed the pre-emption law, which only extendel to a quarter section of land to each settler, would not interfere with the sale of the Red river lands above this raft, because they were cotton lands, and would be purchased by cot II. OF R.] Harbor Bill. [JUNE 18, 1834. If they ton planters; and cotton planters required extensive plished when the water in the river was low, in the month bodies of land. Granting all this to be true, he would of October. Last year the appropriation had enabled inquire whether the pre-emption law contained any thing them to work only from April to June; and in these two which would prevent the cotton planter from securing a months 22,000 dollars had been expended. In order to quarter section to each of his sons, to each of his family, complete it, one season of eight months continuous labe they ever so numerous; nay, to each of his slaves, if bor was requisite, and would be sufficient. he owned them by the hundred. Could not he establish a negro on each quarter section, and let him do enough to constitute legal habitation and cultivation? And would not the planter thus get the whole tract, though worth twenty dollars an acre, at the minimum price? [Cries for the question now rose from all parts of the House.] Mr. McKIM demanded the yeas and nays, which were ordered by the House. went to work with three hundred men, and continued from the first of October to the first of March, the whole might be accomplished. It was miserable economy to grant the money in small sums. The same work would cost 50 per cent. to accomplish it. As to what the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. VINTON] had said, about the flocking of settlers into that country, he could tell the gentleman that there was not a settler there, and that there would not be, for the best of all reasons: that no man could settle there. If he attempted it, he would be drowned Mr. THOMAS, of Louisiana, said that, as to the mat- out. His house would be carried off, and all he had swept ter of provisions, the work could be done as cheap now away. as at any time hereafter. The boats which carried on the Mr. ASHLEY said he had investigated a subject closeworkmen carried on the provisions. They were obtain- ly connected with this, and was enabled to state some ed at Louisville, and were laid in at as low a price as they facts which would show how important the contemplated could be were the country ever so thickly inhabited. So improvement must be to the inhabitants of that country. it would be no saving to the public to wait till the coun- Mr. A. went on to make some statements, which were try should be settled. If it was settled, the people would imperfectly heard by the reporter, but which resulted in not raise provisions; they would raise cotton, and a little this, that freight from Natchitoches, which had cost from corn for the slaves; and the money they got for their cot- 6 to 7 dollars per barrel, would be reduced to 50 cents. ton would purchase, in Mississippi, whatever else they Mr. HUBBARD replied to Mr. MCKINLEY, complainwanted. He hoped gentlemen would reflect that Lou-ing that he had availed himself of a debate upon an item isiana was a frontier State; that it was exposed on one of the present bill to deliver himself of a speech which side to the sea, and on another to Mexico and the Indian had been prepared for a different occasion, and which tribes. Was it not manifestly the interest of the Union was here out of place and out of order. The gentleman to have a State so situated settled as soon as possible? had spoken of some persons having a deep interest in the Was it not desirable that they should be able to protect present bill as reported. If the gentleman had had the themselves, without having a force sent down from above? remotest allusion to him, he would take leave to inform If the State had been fully settled during the last war, him that he had not the interest of one dollar in the bill. would the militia have had to be dragged down from It had been reported more than four weeks since, and if Kentucky to defend it? No. And yet that defence had this hundred thousand dollars was so indispensable, it was cost as much as all the land was worth that was now in certainly very strange that the gentleman from Louisiana question. So that, if the Government should actually [Mr. GARLAND] had not in all that time been able to get give away the public lands in the State, they would still, an official recommendation from the Department stating upon the whole, be gainers. It would be positively cruel the fact, When this item had been debated in committo do any thing to stop the settlement of the country. tee, the chief engineer (General Gratiot) had been in the Those who went there had much to contend with. They lobby of the House, and had been consulted, and his were exposed to a very hot climate, and to the invasions opinion at that time bad been that 100,000 dollars could of an enemy far worse than any human power. He not be judiciously applied this season. Why did not the meant the fevers which were prevalent there. He would gentleman get an official statement from the Department? venture to say that his eastern friends would be unwilling He had produced only a private correspondence. The to remove there, if Government would give them half worthy gentleman from Louisiana [Mr. THOMAS] had rethe country for nothing. To cut an opening through minded the House that his was a frontier State, and that this raft could not but be advantageous to the United it was necessary to bring the land into market in order States at large. We did not yet know who were to settle Mexico. To be sure, they called the Government a republic, but it had little but the name. The people were constantly in a state of civil war, and must long continue so. The Government struck at the power of the priesthood; and, with the priests, to strike at their nests was murder in the first degree. It was no republic except in the name. Mr. T. wanted that we should have somebody on the frontiers, that we might be able to defend ourselves. The lands were rich, the soil was fertile to any degree; and an immense body of inhabitants would immediately settle upon it, if it was once thrown open. But now it lay under water, and was a fit habitation for nothing but alliga tors. Mr. GARLAND, of Louisiana, said that he did not pretend to know on what grounds the Committee of Ways and Means had gone in reporting only $30,000 for this improvement. He held in his hand the estimate of the chief engineer and that of the superintendent, Mr. Shreve, and they both declared that a hundred thousand dollars was necessary. From the nature of the work to be done, a great part of the work could only be accom that there might be somebody to defend it. Mr. H. could not doubt the bravery of the people of Louisiana, especially if it was to be judged of from the character of her gallant representive. The people of New England, however, the gentleman had said, would never go there, on account of the climate and wasting fevers. Now, if he should adopt the same rule of judgment on this point, he should say that a country that sent forth two such stout and able-bodied representatives [Messrs. THOMAS and GARLAND] could not be remarkable for its wasting effects upon the frame. If such were the effects of the climate of Louisiana, he should like to make a trip to that part of the country. He only wished it would have a like effect upon him. [Mr. H. is of a spare habit.] The question was now put, and decided in the negative, as follows: Yeas 60, nays 121. So the amendment was rejected. The next item discussed was an appropriation of $10,000, to open the Choctaw pass, leading from the ocean to the harbor of Mobile. Mr. MURPHY, of Alabama, made a very full and clear explanation of the localities in the harbor of Mobile. The great disadvantage now experienced by vessels en JUNE 18, 1834.] Harbor Bill. [H. OF R. tering that port for want of a direct passage from the which preserved them from the action of the currents, ocean to the city. Vessels had now to make a circuitous and made the piers far more solid and secure. The last route ten or twelve miles round an island, first passing appropriation of 18,000 dollars had been for this object, above the city, and then coming down to it, so as to need and the money had been applied under the direction of first a south and then a north wind. To obviate this diffi- an officer of the United States. Mr. T. held in his hand a culty, vessels were frequently towed up by steamboats, written communication from that officer to the Departbut the lighter craft could not afford this expense, and ment, in which he gave it as his opinion that these cribs great inconvenience and delay was the necessary conse- in the piers at Oswego harbor would not stand another quence. Choctaw pass was an outlet to the sea, between year without being further secured. an island and the main, and if the channel were once Mr. HUBBARD stated to the House that, in the orgideepened at that spot, the whole difficulty would be ob-nal communication made by the War Department, and by viated. The amendment was concurred in without a division. The next item of amendment was "for completing the improvement of the navigation of the river Savannah, in removing the obstructions in said river from the city of Savannah to its mouth, fifty thousand dollars." the Committee of Ways and Means, containing estimates for works of internal improvement, 43,000 dollars had been set down for this harbor of Oswego. The committee at first had thought it inexpedient to recommend the appropriation at all, and the bill had accordingly been reported without the items for this harbor and the others Mr. WAYNE briefly explained the reason why he on the lakes. Mr. H. had, however, subsequently writshould vote in favor of this amendment, although he had ten to the Secretary of War, with a view to ascertain opposed some other appropriations in the bill. He appre- what reduction could be made in the Department's estihended that, if the House should go on appropaiating in a mates for these works; and he had received for answer, too lavish and inconsiderate manner, the Treasury might that the greatest reduction possible, with respect to this possibly be brought into embarrassment. But as the harbor of Oswego, would be to diminish the sum to present item was for continuing a work which had been $30,000. The committee thereupon reconsidered the commenced, he should vote in favor of it. He believed former determination, and agreed to recommend that that $30,000 was as much as could with advantage be ap- sum. plied to the object during the present year. The amendment was concurred in. The next amendment was the following item: "For continuing and securing the works at Oswego harbor, New York, thirty thousand dollars." Mr. McKENNAN called the attention of the House to the very different course pursued by the committee in relation to different works. Here the gentleman took the estimate of engineers as correct, and could not venture to curtail beyond the limit they had fixed; but the House Mr. McKINLEY opposed the appropriation, and called had heard very different language from the same comthe attention of the House to the sums which had at dif- mittee some two days before. Then the estimate of the ferent times been appropriated for completing the works engineer was outrageous, and no confidence was due to at this same harbor. He quoted these amounts from for-it. Would the House thus make fish of one and flesh of mer appropriation bills, and from his statement it appeared another? Were the estimates to be every thing for Osthat, within the five years last past, $91,744 had been ex-wego harbor, and nothing for the Cumberland road? He pended. All these several appropriations, Mr. McK. put it to the gentlemen to say on what principle it was said, had each been for completing the works at Oswego that they admitted official estimates in one case and reharbor. But it seemed they were not yet complete. As jected them in the other. he did not think that the United States was bound, after Mr. McKINLEY explained. The committee had not making the harbor at Oswego, to keep that harbor for ever all been in favor of any appropriation for the Cumberland in repair, he called for the yeas and nays upon concur-road, but those who were opposed to it, not willing to ring in the amendment; and they were ordered by the House. make difficulty, had assented to the reporting of the bill for that object, but, in giving this assent, had expressly reserved to themselves the liberty of opposing the bill in the House. This liberty Mr. McK. should use whenever he thought fit. Mr. TURRILL, of New York, observed, in reply, that this appropriation had been recommended by the Department of War. It was true that the sums mentioned by the gentleman had at different times been appropriated Mr. GILLET regretted that the gentleman from Penntoward completing the improvement of this harbor; but it sylvania [Mr. MCKENNAN] had indulged in such a course ought to be borne in mind that, in the whole State of of remark. It was calculated to cherish those sectional New York, with two exceptions, a more important har- feelings which every true friend of his country must wish. bor did not exist than at Oswego. The amount of its to see banished from our halls of legislation. The gencommerce had, within the five years of which the gentle-tleman need not complain on the subject of Oswego harman had spoken, increased five hundred fold. The har- bor; for that was a subject of appropriation which had bor was situated at the mouth of the Oswego river and the suffered almost as much as the Cumberland road. That Oswego canal; and its water communication extended as gentlemen might be better prepared to estimate the nefar as Green bay, for schooners of any burden. It car- cessity and value of having a good harbor in that part of ried on a very extensive commerce with Ohio, Michigan, Lake Ontario, he would call the attention of the House to and with a part of Indiana. The appropriation, he re- the amount of business done annually upon that lake. peated, had been recommended by the Department of There were from 5 to $8,000,000 worth of property War, and reported by the Committee of Ways and Means. which annually passed by this port of Oswego. As many The piers had been carried out a short distance into the as twelve steamboats and twenty-three schooners had left lake, in the same manner as had been done in the other that port in a single week. It carried on a large amount lake harbors. Wooden cribs had been constructed, and of commerce in the interior, extending as far as Chicago. filled with stone, and in that form the piers might have It was one of the most useful and necessary harbors on been said to have been completed. But the timber of the whole range of the lakes, especially in case of storms, these cribs now began to decay, and in some parts they were so much injured that they could not stand much longer. Two years since the Department of War had adopted, in respect to all these harbors on the lake shores, a new plan, which consisted in erecting mounds of stone outside of the cribs, and surrounding the foot of them, VOL. X.--285 which, as most gentlemen were aware, were often very violent upon that lake. It was true that former appropriations had been made professedly "to complete" the improvement of this harbor; but that was merely a phraseology employed by the Department, and was well un derstood. The Department recommended a sum which H. OF R.] Harbor Bill. [JUNE 18, 1834. they supposed adequate to complete a given improve its advocates even on the seaboard, and none have sus ment: the bill was reported conformably, and the words tained it west of the mountains. He was not acquainted "for completing" were used. In the House, the amount personally with the situation of the harbor at Oswego, was often cut down one-half or more, and still the same but as the attack had been made upon all the appropria phraseology remained. And though $20,000 might be tions for the same object, and as he felt a deep interest needed to complete a work, and the House gave only ten or in behalf of the lake appropriations generally, he hoped fifteen, it was still said to be "for completing" the work he should be excused if he took part in the present dein question. Mr. G. said he had personally examined bate, although it was in relation to an appropriation for a these works at Oswego, and he was prepared to state to harbor in New York. Objections have been made that the House that all which had been done there would be the estimates have been exceeded; and it is asked, in the in danger of being lost, unless the appropriation now spirit of complaint, when will these appropriations cease? asked should be made. That the estimates have been exceeded in other cases Mr. POLK congratulated himself that for once he was has been no objection to the further appropriation of able to act with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, [Mr. money to complete the works commenced. Aware that MCKENNAN.] A majority of the Committee of Ways and this objection would be raised, and with a view of satis Means had been of opinion that the works on these lake fying the objection that it was not confined to harbors, harbors might, without injury, be for the present sus- he penned a resolution several months since, which he pended, and had accordingly omitted them in the bill. should have offered if it had been in order to have done But gentlemen locally interested had applied to the com- it, calling on the Secretary of War to report the original mittee with much importunity, urging at least their inser- estimates for fortifications, with the amount of money altion in the bill. The committee had thereupon applied ready expended on them; and an estimate of the amount to the Department to know whether these appropriations necessary to complete them. He had not, from the state were or were not indispensable. The Department had of the business before the House, been able to offer the replied that a portion of the works might be suspended resolution under the rules, and he was reluctant to ask a for the present, while another portion could not so well special indulgence where it could be avoided. He had be dispensed with. The committee had accordingly con- availed himself, therefore, of the occasion afforded a few cluded to submit the items to the House, and give a fair days before, when the fortification bill was under discusopportunity for the expression of the views and wishes of sion, to ask the chairman of the Committee of Ways and the House upon each. He thought that no very great Means, whether the expenditures had not exceeded the difficulty could result from withholding these appropria- estimates? He promptly said they had, and that such tions for the present year. The piers had all been com- was generally the case in relation to all public works. pleted according to the original plan. What was now was to be borne in mind, that the size of a fortification asked was for a new plan since adopted. To be sure, being given, the number of cubic yards of excavation this was recommended by the engineers; but all gentle- and masonry, and the quantity of wood work, could be men knew that those officers were in the habit of recom- given with great accuracy, if not with mathematical cermending very large expenditures of money, and with but tainty. The price of labor and materials might vary, little regard to the public purse. They must recommend which would make some difference in the amount to be something: it was their trade. Mr. P. here quoted a re-expended; but in a case where the quantity of materials port from the War Department, to which he had referred. was known, as well as the quantum of labor to be perHe concluded by suggesting to his friend from Alabama formed, it seemed as if the estimates might be made out [Mr. MCKINLEY] to modify the amendment by reducing it to a smaller sum-say $5,000. It with great accuracy. And yet, in these cases, it was found the estimates were exceeded, where no want of skill was imputed to the engineer, nor any want of economy in the officer who superintended the work. Mr. WHITTLESEY, of Ohio, said he was quite confident the gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. McKAY] would not oppose the appropriations for harbors on the No engineer, however skilful or particular he might be, lakes, if he knew how indispensably necessary they were could make an accurate estimate of what the expense to the commerce of those inland seas. He most cheer would be in constructing a harbor. He cannot do so, fully acknowledged the value of the services rendered because he cannot tell what quantity of materials will be by that gentleman, in looking into the different items of wanted. He said he would state for the information of the appropriation bills, and opposing them where he be- the House, as he had done on former occasions, what lieved the expenditures to be either unnecessary or extrav- were the obstructions and the modes adopted to remove agant. It appeared to him there was a prospect of a return them. All or nearly all of the streams that discharge of the good old times, when a gentleman from Tennessee, their waters into Lake Erie, on the southern shore, have General Cocke, was a watchman at the door of the Treas- deep channels, and, when accessible, form safe and seury. A distinguished Senator from New York, [Mr. King,] cure harbors. These streams, generally, have their in speaking of the services rendered by General Cocke to sources but a short distance from the lake, and in the the country, said he had saved millions of money by his summer season do not discharge such quantities of water vigilance, his independence, and his integrity. He did as to keep open their channels. The sand on the shore not doubt the same remark would be made of the gen- is drifted up and down the lake, according to the course tleman from North Carolina, if he should remain long a of the winds, and, overcoming the force of the current member of this House and should scrutinize the appro- in the streams, a deposite is made at their mouths, which priation bills with the investigating talent he has bestowed prevents egress or ingress. The obstruction thus formed upon them at this session of Congress. It cannot be his remains until the water within rises to such a height as object, however, nor the object of any other gentleman, to to force a passage through the bar. Before aruficia oppose appropriations which are necessary, and against harbors were formed, these obstructions blocked up the which no constitutional objections exist. He would not mouths of the streams during most of the navigating stop to discuss the constitutional question, whether Con- season; or, if partially open, the water was too shallow t gress had the right to appropriate money for the construction of harbors, as he had no doubt a great majority of that House were in favor of the power, and he did not understand that the opposition was from any such doubt. The doctrine that the constitution is confined to the salt water, in the dispensation of its benefits, was fast losing admit the vessels in general use, and the lighters onl passed over into the channels. The harbors within thes channels are completely land locked, and are as secur for vessels to ride in as any in the world. To remove an to prevent a recurrence of these obstructions, artificia works are built, commencing at the point where the wa |