supported on the ground of its being proper for the people to have a full expression of the sentiments of this Convention, and of its being customary in such cases; and opposed upon the ground that the people had a fair expression of the sentiments of the Convention in the amended constitution itself, and that if any other explanations were necessary, an address might be made by individuals in an unofficial capacity; the question was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the affirmative, as follows:

AYES.-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Bowman, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, Burroughs, Carver, Case, Child, R. Clarke, Collins, Dubois, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fairlie, Fenton, Frost, Hogeboom, Howe, Hunt, Hunting, Knowles, Lefferts, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Moore, Nelson, Park, Pitcher, Porter, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, Sage, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Taylor, Townley, Townsend, Tuttle, Verbryck, Ward, A. Webster, Wheeler, N. Williams, Woods, Young.-61. NOES.-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Birdseye, Buel, Clyde, Duer, Edwards, Hallock, Hees, IIunter, Huntington, Jay, Jones, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Millikin, Munro, Paulding, Rhinelander, Rogers, Sanders, I. Smith, R. Smith, Stagg, Sylvester, Ten Eyck, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woodward, Wooster, Yates.-39.

On motion, it was decided, that the committee to draft the address consist of three, and the President named Messrs. Root, Hunting, and Steele to compose the said committee. Adjourned to 10 o'clock to-morrow morning.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 1821. The Convention met as usual, and the minutes of yesterday were read and approved.

MR. N. WILLIAMS offered the following resolution :

"Ordered, That the re-printing of the journals of 1801, which has been done for the use of this Convention, be charged to the contingent expenses attendant on their proccedings." Carried.

The Convention then went into committee of the whole, on the report of the select committee to whom was referred the subject of incorporating and consolidating into an amended constitution, all the sections and provisions to the existing constitution which are not modified, altered, or abolished; together with the alterations and amendments approved, or to be approved by this Convention-Mr. Lawrence in the chair.

The first six sections of the report on the legislative power were read, and with a few verbal amendments passed.

The seventh section, (relative to members of assembly,) was read, when MR. RUSSELL moved to strike out all that part of the section after the word "taken," in the tenth line, to the word "every," in the seventeenth line, and to insert in lieu thereof as follows:

"And until an apportionment of members of assembly be made by the legisla ture, according to the provisions of this constitution, the members of assembly shall be chosen in the respective counties, in the proportions following, to wit:

"Albany 3, Allegany 1, Broome 1, Cayuga 4, Chenango 3, Chautauque 1, Clinton 1, Columbia 3, Cortland 2, Cattaraugus 1, Delaware 2, Dutchess 4, Essex 1, Erie 1, Franklin 1, Genesee 4, Greene 2, Herkimer 3, Jefferson 3, Kings 1, Living. ston 2, Lewis 1, Madison 3, Monroe 3, Montgomery and Hamilton 4, Niagara 1, New-York 10, Oneida 5, Orange 4, Onondaga 4, Ontario 6, Otsego 4, Oswego 1, Putnam 1, Queens 2, Rensselaer 4, Richmond 1, Rockland 1, Saratoga 3, Schenectady 1, Seneca 2, Schoharie 2, St. Lawrence 1, Steuben 2, Suffolk 2, Sullivan 1 Tioga 2, Tompkins 2, Ulster 3, Warren 1, Washington 4, Westchester 3."

A discussion ensued, in which Messrs. N. Sanford, Buel, Sharpe, Wheeler, Birdseye, Radcliff, King, Cramer, Van Vechten, Young, and Root, took part,

when the question was taken by aycs and noes, and decided in the negative, 76 to 27, as follows:

NOES.-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Bowman, Briggs, Case, Child, D. Clarke, Collins, Cramer, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fenton, Frost, Hallock, Hogeboom, Howe, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Hurd, Jones King, Knowles, Lansing, Lefferts, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Park, Paulding, Pike, Pitcher, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Reeve, Rhinelander, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rose, Rosebrugh, Ross, Sage, Sanders, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, Stagg, Starkweather, Swift, Sylvester, Taylor, Townley, Tuttle, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheeler, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young,-76.

AYES.-Messrs. Bacon, Birdseye, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, Buel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Eastwood, Fairlie, Ferris, Huntington, Jay, Nelson, Porter, President, Rogers, Russell, N. Sanford, R. Smith, Steele, Ten Eyck, Townsend, Ward, Wheaton, E. Williams, Woods-27.

The 7th section passed, with an amendment, making it imperative on the present legislature to apportion the members of the assembly according to the last United States census.

The 8th section (relative to originating bills) passed without amendment. The 9th section (relative to compensation of the members of the legislature,) was read.

MR. TOMPKINS moved to strike out the words from " and," in the 6th line, to the word "thereof," in the 11th, embracing the clause which prohibits the legislature to increase their wages beyond the sum of $3 per day.

MR. SHELDON called for the ayes and noes; and in making this call, he opposed at considerable length the motion of Mr. Tompkins. He believed three dollars a day was an adequate compensation for members; and it was well to place a check upon those who might feel power and forget right.

MR. TOMPKINS thought we were belittleing ourselves, by courting popularity in this way. The prices of labour and the expense of living were constantly varying. It might happen that the services of a member of the legislature would hereafter be worth five, six, or seven dollars a day; and yet we were about to tie up the hands of the legislature for perhaps half a century.

MR. BRIGGS did not differ much from the gentleman from Montgomery, (Mr. Sheldon) but it would in his opinion be imprudent to shackle the legislature with a constitutional provision of this kind.

MR. VAN VECHTEN proposed a modification of Mr. Tompkins' motion, by including the whole section after the word "and"; to which Mr. T. assented. MR. Ross was unwilling we should manifest so much distrust of future legislatures, although he had no particular objections to the section as it now stands. Mr. CHILD was sorry to see so many amendments proposed at this late hour. If we recommenced the work of amendment in this way there would be no end to our labours. There were some things he would wish to see altered, such as the mode of electing sheriffs, &c.

MR. BIRDSEYE made a few remarks against a clause of this kind. It was entering too much into detail.

MR. WHEELER then moved to strike out all that part of the section, which follows the word per day”—so as to limit the maximum at three dollars permanently in the constitution.

Whereupon Mr. Tompkins suspended his motion, and after some discussion by Messrs. Fairlie and Burroughs, the question on Mr. Wheeler's motion was taken by ayes and noes, and carried in the affirmative, as follows:

AYES-Messrs. Baker, Bacon, Bowman, Buel, Carver, Child, Clyde, Collins, Cramer, Dubois, Duer, Edwards, Ferris, Hallock, Hogeboom, Hurd, Jones, Knowles, A. Livingston, Munro, Pike, Pitcher, Porter, President, Pumpelly, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Rogers, Rosebrugh, Sanders, N. Sanford, Seely, Sheldon, R. Smith, Stagg, Starkweather, 1. Sutherland, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Horne, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wheeler, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young.-53. NOES-Messrs. Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Brooks,

Burroughs, Carpenter, Case, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fairlie, Frost, Howe, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Jay, King, Lansing, Lefferts P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Nelson, Park, Paulding, Radcliff, Rhinelander, Root, Rose, Ross, Russell, Sage, R. Sanford, Schenck, Seaman, Sharpe, I. Smith, Steele, Swift, Sylvester, Taylor, Van Fleet, Ward, Wendover, Wheaton, N. Williams, Woods.-50.

MR. TOMPKINS then renewed his motion to strike out the words “ and no law shall be passed increasing the wages of the legislature beyond the sum of three dollars per day," on which the question was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Brooks, Buel, Carpenter, Carver, Case, Child, Clyde, Collins, Cramer, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Ferris, Hallock, Hogeboom, Howe, Hunt, Hurd, Jones, King, Knowles, Lansing, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Pike, Pitcher, Pumpelly, Reeve, Rhinelander, Rockwell, Rogers, Rose, Ross, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, Seaman, Seely, Sheldon, R. Smith, Starkweather, I. Sutherland, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wheeler, Woods, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young.-64.

AYES-Messrs. Birdseye, Bowman, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Burroughs, R. Clarke, Fairlie, Fenton, Frost, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Jay, Lefferts, M'Call, Nelson, Park, Paulding, Porter, President, Radcliff, Root, R. Sanford, Schenck, Sharpe, I. Smith, Stagg, Steele, Swift, Sylvester, Tuttle, Ward, Wendover, Wheaton, N. Williams.-37.

MR. WHEATON moved to strike out the word "wages" and insert "compensation," and to insert" members of the," so as to read "compensation of the members of the legislature." Carried.

MR. NELSON then moved to strike out "three" and insert "two," (dollars) as the maximum of the pay of members. He had uniformly voted against fixing the compensation of the legislature, but if any sum were fixed, he would prefor two dollars to three.

The question was taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, 67 to 39, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Barlow, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Collins, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hallock, Hogeboom, Hunt, Hunting, Jay, Jones, King, Knowles, Lansing, Lefferts, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Paulding, Pike, Porter, Rhinelander, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Ross, Rus. sell, Sage, N. Sanford, Seaman, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, R. Smith, Stagg, Starkweather, Steele, I. Sutherland, Swift, Sylvester, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Horne, Van Ness, Van Vechten, Verbryck, Ward, E. Webster, Wheaton, Wheeler, N. Williams, Wooster-67.

AYES-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Beckwith, Birdseye, Bowman, Briggs, Buel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Case, Child, Clyde, Cramer, Eastwood, Hunter, Huntington, Hurd, M'Call, Nelson, Park, Pitcher, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Reeve, Rogers, Rose, Rosebrugh, Sanders, R. Sandford, Schenck, I. Smith, Taylor, Van Fleet. J. R. Van Rensselaer, Wendover, Woods, Woodward, Yates, Young-39.

The section then passed without further amendment.

The tenth and eleventh sections (prohibiting members of the legislature from receiving appointments from this state or United States) passed as report ed.

The twelfth section (requiring all bills which have passed the two houses to be presented to the governor) was read.

MR. DUER moved to strike out the words "in which case it shall not become a law," which follow the adjournment of the legislature, as being unnecessary. Lost.

MR. CRAMER moved to strike out ten and insert fire, giving the governor five days instead of ten, for returning bills with his objections. Lost.

The 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th sections (relative to elections, the political

year, and removal from office by the joint vote of the senate and assembly,) passed without amendment.

ARTICLE SECOND, (right of suffrage) was read and passed without amend

ment.

GEN. ROOT moved that the committce rise and report, with a view of having the articles which have passed, engrossed by the secretary, if they shall be agreed to by the Convention. After passing the preamble, the committee rose and reported; and

GEN. ROOT moved that the question be taken on agreeing to the report of the committee of the whole.

MR. BUEL moved to transpose the 12th and 16th sections in the first article. Carried.

MR. EDWARDS moved to strike out the words " a free," in the preamble, so as to read, permitting us to make choice of our government. Carried.

The Convention then re-resolved itself into a committee of the whole. Mr. Lawrence in the chair.

ARTICLE THIRD, (executive department,) was read by sections, the first five of which passed without amendment.

MR. BIRDSEYE moved to amend the 6th section (providing for a vacancy in the office of governor,) by striking out the words "until the next biennial election," and inserting the words "for the remainder of the term." Carried. The 7th section (relative to the lieutenant governor) passed as reported. ARTICLE FOURTH, (appointing power,) was read by sections, the first two of which passed as reported.

MR. BUEL moved to strike out the words " and the persons appointed by him (the governor) shall hold their offices until an election shall be made."

The motion was supported by the mover and Col. Young, and opposed by Gen. Root. Lost.

GEN. ROOT moved to strike out all that part of the section which follows the word "governor,' in the third line, (authorising the governor to fill vacancies in the militia in certain cases.) Carried; and the section passed as amended. Section 4th (militia officers to be commissioned by the governor) passed without amendment.

MR. WHEATON Moved to amend the fifth section (authorizing the legislature to change the mode of electing militia officers) by striking out the words “if two-thirds of the members present in each house concur therein." His reasons were, that the clause might at some future period lead to difficulties between the national and the state governments; and that the whole provision for electing militia officers would be attended with the most injurious consequences to the discipline of the militia. This would be peculiarly felt in the city which he had the honour to represent. But the objection, to which he wished now to call the attention of the house, was, that by the federal constitution, which was the supreme law of the land, congress is to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and the states reserve only the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by congress. It is congress, and not the state legislature, who are to organize the militia, and consequently to provide how it shall be officered. The plan of appointing the militia officers of this state adopted by the Convention is grounded upon the act of congress now in force. But that act may be repealed, or modified. An entirely different organization of the militia might hereafter be adopted by the national government. It had frequently been proposed to classify the militia of the union, so as to render it a more efficient force; and Mr. W. ventured to predict that some such arrangement would be ultimately found necessary. The legislation of the state was subordinate to that of congress on this all-important subject. He entreated the Convention to pause before they finally adopted this untried theory, which would tie up the hands of the state legislature in such a manner that they could not conform our militia laws to the laws of the United States. Suppose such a change as he had alluded to were to be thought indispensably necessary in time of war; and a minority in either house of the legislature, consisting of more than one-third, were obstinately to resist any proposed alteration in the

organization of our militia, in order to make it conform to the general system of the union, should we not be at open hostility with the national government? Would not the military force of this state be completely neutralized? Might not a factious minority baffle all the efforts of patriotism, until the slow process of amending our state constitution should bring us back to our allegiance to the union.

MR. VAN BUREN opposed the motion. He apprehended no difficulties of the kind anticipated. The same objections would apply to all the sections relative to military appointments.

MR. WHEATON then moved to reconsider the four first sections, with a view of striking them all out.

GEN. ROOT opposed the motion.

MR. WHEATON replied that the experience of the late war was enough to show to what extreme lengths an opposition might go; and that if these five sections were all stricken out, it would not be necessary to insert any thing in their place, as the 16th section provided that the legislature should regulate the appointment of all such officers as were not specially provided for in the constitution.

The question was put, and lost.

MR. WHEATON'S motion to strike out the clause as above stated was also lost, and the section passed without amendment.

Section 6th (respecting appointments by the legislature (passed as reported. MR. BUEL moved to amend the 7th section (respecting the general appointing power, and mode of appointing justices of the peace) by sundry verbal alterations which were adopted, and the section passed as amended.

Section 8th (respecting the election of sheriffs and county clerks by the people) was read.

MR. WHEELER moved to amend the section by inserting after the word "sheriffs," the words "shall be appointed in the same manner as justices of the peace are directed to be appointed or chosen."

MR. VAN BUREN wished the gentleman would modify his motion, so as to make the sheriffs appointed by the governor and senate.

MR. WHEELER assented to the modification.

MR. BRIGGS wished the gentleman would farther modify his motion, by making justices of the peace elective by the people.

MR. BACON remarked, that this subject had undergone great perils, both among its enemies and false brethren. He did not wish to be very pertinacious on this subject; but would implore of the honorable gentlemen in favour of the amendment, to spare one solitary feature in the constitution which should answer the wishes of the people, after having pretended to do so much. Let the experiment be tried, and if it shall lead to turmoil and confusion, the constitution provides an easy method of altering the plan, as the legislature shall think proper. It is very possible the plan will be so well received by the people, that they will hereafter determine that their justices of the peace shall also be elected.

MR. B. thought that some gentlemen were asking too much. It was impossible for the gentleman from Delaware to spread his mantle over all his friends; and notwithstanding the election of sheriffs in some counties would operate rather unkindly, he did hope that this small remnant of power might be left with the people.

MR. SHARPE called for the ayes and noes, that it might be seen what gentle men had changed their minds on this subject.

The question on Mr. Wheeler's motion was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Birdseye, Breese, Briggs, Brinkerhoff, Brooks, Burroughs, Carpenter, Case, D.Clark, R. Clarke, Collins, Dubois, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Ferris, Frest, Hallock, Howe, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Hurd, Jones, Lefferts, A. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Park, President, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Russell, Rhinelander, Richards, Sage, Saunders, N. Sanford, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, R. Smith, Stagg, Steele, Swift, Sylvester, Townley,