ly to our highest judicial offices. This, he said was strictly true with regard to the attorney-general, secretary of state, surveyor-general, and comptroller. Their offices had not been vacated. The only provision which had been made was to provide for appointments in case of vacanies. The same might be said of the canal commissioners, and of every other office in the state.

As to the first judges, he said gentlemen were not correct when they supposed the case analogous. The incumbents had not been removed from those offices, but the office itself, as an office during good behaviour, had been abolished. With respect to the senators, to which the committee had been referred, he denied that, from any thing they had as yet done, the offices of the present senators would be necessarily vacated before the expiration of their constitutional term. He had, however, no doubt a re-election of senators would be directed. Upon that subject there appeared to be but one opinion. But why was this done? Was it the removal of an incumbent, from an office which was left unchanged, as was the case with that of chancellor, &c. No. It was from indispensable and unavoidable necessity. The present senators were the representatives of freeholders only. By the amendments adopted, the senators hereafter to be elected, would represent electors of a different character, and would come from different districts, There would therefore be a palpable incongruity in the formation of a body, one part of whom were elected by freeholders and another by electors of a different character, The case of senators was consequently by no means applicable to the present. The matter therefore being clear, that the only effect of the amendment would be to turn out of office the present incumbents, he submitted to the Convention whether it would be either just or wise to do so. He submitted it, he said, particularly to that portion of the Convention, who would be held responsible for its doings -and who would in a political point of view, be the chief sufferers by a failure of the ratification of their proceedings by the people. He warned them to reflect seriously on this most interesting matter. He directed their attention to the never ending feuds and bitter controversies which would inevitably grow out of a loss of the amendments adopted by the Convention. He knew well, he said, how apt, men placed in their situation-heated by discussions, and sometimes pressed by indiscreet friends-were to suffer their feelings to be excited, and to lead them into measures which their sober judgments would condemn. It was their duty to rise superior to all such feelings. He asked them to reflect for a moment, and then answer him, whether, when they left home, they had ever heard the least intimation from their constituents, that instead of amending the constitution upon general principles, they were to descend to pulling down obnoxious officers through the medium of the Convention; and he asked them whether they were not sensible of the great danger of surprising the public at this advanced stage of the session, when the greatest uneasiness already prevailed, by a measure so unexpected. There was, he said, no necessity for, or propriety in, this measure. They had already thrown wide open the doors of approach to unworthy incumbents. They had altered the impeaching power, from two thirds to a bare majority. They had provided also that the chancellor and judges should be removable by the vote of two thirds of one branch, and a bare majority of the other. The judicial officer who could not be reached in either of those ways, ought not to be touched. There were therefore no public reasons for the measure, and if not, then why are we to adopt it? Certainly not from personal feelings. If personal feelings could or ought to influence us against the individual who would probably be most affected by the adoption of this amendment, Mr. Van Buren supposed that he above all others, would be excused for indulging them. He could with truth say, that he had through his whole life been assailed from that quarter, with hostility, political, professional, and personal-hostility which had been the most keen, active and unyielding. But, sir, said he, am I on that account, to avail myself of my situation as a representative of the people, sent here to make a constitution for them and their posterity, and to indulge my individual resentments in the prostration of my private and political adversary. He hoped it was unnecessary for him to say, that he should forever despise himself if he could be capable of such conduct. He also hoped that that sentiment was not, confined to himself alone, and that the Convention would not ruin its character and credit, by proceeding to such extremities.

MR. BUEL felt it incumbent on him to explain thre conduct of the chairman of the select committee, which had been placed in an important point of view.

When the committee met last evening, there was a wide difference of opinion, and the chairman of the committee, (Mr. Munro) only acceded to the first section of the report, and which had been stricken out this morning, conditionally. That is to say, if the committee would frame the report in other respects, so as to meet his views, he would then assent to the first section, as a matter of compromise. But such was not the fact, and the chairman of course was absolved from his pledge, given thus conditionally. And he had early this morning called the committee together, and a majority of them had agreed to strike out the first clause.

COL. YOUNG replied to Mr. Van Buren.

The question was then taken on the amendment offered by Mr. Tompkins, by ayes and noes, and negatived, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Birdseye, Breese, Buel, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Clyde, Collins, Dodge, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Ferris, Fish, Hallock, Hees, Hunter, Huntington, Jay, Jones, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Lefferts, Millikin, Munro, Nelson, Paulding, Reeve, Rhinelander, Rogers, Rose, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, Sharpe, I. Smith, R. Smith, 1. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Townley, Tripp, Van Buren, Van Horne, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Verbryck, Ward, E. Webster, Wheaton, Wheeler, E. Williams, N. Williams, Woodward, Yates-64.

AYES-Messrs. Briggs, Brooks, Case, Child, D Clark, R.Clarke, Cramer, Day, Dubois, Frost, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunting, Knowles, A. Liv ingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Pike, Pitcher, President, Price, Pumpelly, Radcliff, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seely, Sheldon, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Taylor, Townsend, Tuttle, Van Fleet, Woods, Wooster, Young-44.

On the above question, Messrs. Kent, and Spencer, excused themselves from voting, as they were interested in the question.

The proposition offered in the morning by Mr. Munro being next in order was then read again.

MR. BUEL moved that the committee rise and report, with the view that the propositions which had been submitted might be printed.

MR. SHARPE believed the committee had made up their minds to retain the judiciary, as established by the present constitution.

COL. YOUNG inquired who would command the second platoon of the supreme court, if it should be organized as proposed? No provision had been made for more than one chief justice.

MR. MUNRO replied that the oldest judge present would of course preside, in the absence of the chief justice.

MR. BIRDSEYE made a few remarks in favour of the amendment offered by Mr. Munro.

COL. YOUNG replied. If we have two courts of equal jurisdiction, many difficulties will arise. We shall be obliged to have two reporters. We now have two volumes a year, at six dollars each; which, to country lawyers at least, is a pretty heavy tax. Besides, there would be so many judges on the bench, that they could not const together, and you would have to poll them as you would do a jury. Mr. Y. thought the principle of the question had been settled by the vote of yesterday.

MR. E. WILLIAMS rose amidst calls for the question. He hoped, as he did not often trouble the committee, that he should be indulged for a few moments. He then proceeded to reply to Mr. Young, in regard to the reporter, and observed that gentlemen did not perhaps know how much money the present reporter received they did not know that the great and powerful, rich and patriotic state of New-York, paid the reporter of the supreme court, the court of chancery, and court of errors, the enormous sum of five hundred dollars a year! Yes, said Mr. W. he gets five hundred dollars a year; and what is further to his benefit, the state lately directed him to furnish the several county clerks' offices

with his reports, at his own expense, and this costs him, the sum of six hundres dollars! Mr. W. thought there was little to be apprehended upon this head. If the lawyers only read all the law books that they have purchased, it was no matter how many they had, and he was sure their clients would not regret it. No, (said he to Col. Young) neither your clients, nor mine, will have occasion to regret that we read too many law books. Mr. W. extended his remarks some time, and concluded by advocating the proposition offered by Mr. Munro.

The question on the amendment offered by Mr. Munro was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Breese, Briggs, Brooks, Carpenter, Carver, Child, D. Clark, R. Clarke, Collins, Cramer, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Eastwood, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Hurd, Knowles, Lansing, A. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Moore, Park, Pike, Pitcher, Price, Pumpelly, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seely, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, R. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Van Vechten, Verbryck, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheeler, N. Williams, Woods, Woodward, Wooster, Yates, Young-86.

AYES-Messrs. Bacon, Birdseye, Buel, Burroughs, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fish, Jay, Kent, King, Lawrence, Munro, Paulding, President, Rhinelander, Rogers, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Ward, Wheaton, E. Williams-25.

MR. M'CALL offered a substitute for what had been rejected, in the follow ing words:

"The state shall be divided by law into a convenient number of circuits; a president shall be appointed of the courts in each circuit, who, during his continuance in office, shall reside therein; the president and judges, any two of whom shall be a quorum, shall compose the court of common pleas. [The appointment of the common plea judges is previously provided for.]

"The judges of the court of common pleas, in each county shall, by virtue of their offices, be justices of oyer and terminer and general gaɔl delivery, for the trial of capital and other offenders therein; any three of the said Judges, the president being one, shall be a quorum.

"The party accused, as well as the state, may, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law, remove the indictment and proceedings, or a transcript thereof, into the supreme court.

"The several courts of common pleas shall, besides the powers heretofore usually exercised by them, have the powers of a court of chancery so far as relates

to.

"The judges of the courts of common pleas shall, within their respective counties, have the like powers with the judges of the supreme court, to issue writs of certiorari to the justices of the peace, and to cause their proceedings to be brought before them, and the like right and justice to be done.

"The president of the court in each circuit, within such circuit, and the judg es of the court of common pleas, within their respective counties, shall be jus tices of the peace, so far as relates to criminal matters."

As there had been no question taken on the report of the committee, but only on amendments offered, it was thought not to be in order to receive it as proposed. The mover then offered it as a substitute for the first section of the report.

MR. M'CALL observed, that all the propositions which had been offered on the subject had failed, and it was, perhaps, inexpedient to propose another. He was anxious, however, that some method should be devised that was calculated both to increase the respectability of the courts of common pleas, and, at the same time, to relieve the supreme court. If the subject was left to the legislature, and no provision made in the constitution, he was satisfied that nothing would be done to effect these objects. As organized now, the gentlemen

of the profession carry their business almost exclusively into the supreme court. and for the obvious reason that they get more fees.

The question was then taken on Mr. M'Call's motion, and lost.

MR. E. WILLIAMS inquired whether there was any thing before the committee that had not been rejected?

COL. YOUNG offered the following, as a substitute for the report of the committee:

"The legislature shall have power to establish from time to time, such courts of law subordinate to the supreme court, and such courts of equity, subordinate to the court of chancery, as the public good may require."

Some remarks were made in explanation, by MR. YOUNG.

MR. VAN BUREN objected to the proposition of the gentleman from Saratoga, as being perfectly nugatory.

MR. E. WILLIAMS contended that the proposition of the gentleman from Saratoga was wholly unnecessary, as the legislature possesses all the power which it proposed to give. Unfortunately every proposition which comes from gentlemen of the bar is rejected. If any thing is to be done upon this subject, the lawyers must have no hand in it. It has been stated by some of the lay members, that they will oppose every thing that comes from such a source. Yesterday a committee was appointed, consisting of seven, six of whom were lawyers, and their report was this morning annihilated. Every project offered since had been successively strangled. Mr. W. could not, therefore, support it, because if he did, it would be lost; and he believed the gentleman from Saratoga was too respectable a lawyer to have his project carry.

MR. WHEELER replied, when the question was taken on the proposition offered by Mr. Young, and carried.

MR. VAN BUREN said they had not even then advanced a single step, as the same provision exactly was contained in the constitution.

MR. DODGE said he believed it to be the wish of nine-tenths of the members

to do nothing more than to leave the judiciary as they found it.

MR. VAN BUREN. Then why not come out openly and manfully, and say so, and not degrade ourselves by adopting insignificant amendments?

MR. DODGE. If gentlemen submit propositions to the house, we are obliged to vote on them, whether insignificant or not.

MR. I. SUTHERLAND then offered the following as an addition, which he thought would obviate the difficulties. It certainly is the sense of this Convention, that the chancellor and judges of the highest tribunal should be rendered independent.

"And the judges of such court, to whom the power of trying issues joined in the supreme court shall be given, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, antil the age of sixty years."

MR. HOGEBOOM was of opinion that we had courts enough already, and he should vote against every proposition for increasing the number.

The question on Mr. Sutherland's amendment was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the negative, as follows:

NOES-Messrs. Bacon, Baker, Barlow, Beckwith, Briggs, Brooks, Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Case, R. Clarke, Clyde, Collins, Day, Dodge, Dubois, Dyckman, Eastwood, Fenton, Ferris, Fish, Frost, Hallock, Hees, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Huntington, Hurd, Knowles, Lansing, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M‹Call, Millikin, Moore, Munro, Park, Pike, Porter, Price, Radcliff, Reeve, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Ross, Sage, Sanders, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seely, Sharpe, I. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, Swift, Taylor, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Fleet, Van Horne, Verbryck, E. Webster, Woods, Woodward, Wooster, Young-74.

AYES-Messrs. Birdseye, Breese, Buel, Child, Cramer, Duer, Edwards. Jay, Jones. Kent, King, Lawrence. Lefferts, Nelson, Paulding, Pitcher, Pum

pelly, Rhinelander, Rogers, Russell, Sheldon, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Tallmadge, Ten Eyck, Van Buren, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Wendover, Wheaton, Wheeler, E. Williams, N. Williams, Yates-35.

The committee then rose and reported progress, without asking leave to sit again. Adjourned.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1821.

Prayer by the Rev. Dr. CHESTER. Minutes of yesterday read and approved.

THE APPOINTING POWER.

The Convention then resolved itself into a committee of the whole on the appointing power-Mr. Lawrence in the chair.

The report of the select committee, of which Mr. Radcliff was chairman, that was presented yesterday on that part of the appointing power which had not been acted upon in committee of the whole, was again read, as follows:

I. That as many coroners as the legislature shall direct for each county, including the city and county of New-York, shall be elected, in the same manner as sheriffs are directed to be elected; and shall hold their offices for the same term and be removable in like manner.

II. That masters in chancery, and the register and assistant registers of the said court, shall be appointed by the governor, with the consent of the senate; that the masters in chancery shall be removable by the senate, on the recommendation of the governor; and that the register and assistant registers, hold their offices for three years, unless sooner removed by the senate, on the like recommendation of the governor.

III. That examiners in chancery be appointed by the court of chancery, and hold their offices during the pleasure of the said court.

IV. That the clerk of the court of oyer and terminer, and general sessions of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, be appointed by the court of general sessions of the peace in said city, and hold his office during the pleasure of the said court.

V. That the third section of the report of the committee of the whole, on the subject of the power of appointment to office, be so amended, as to insert, after the word "York," in the third line, the words, " and the clerk of the sittings or circuits, in the city of New-York."

[The effect of this amendment will be to make the office of clerk of the sittings in New-York elective, in the same manner, and to hold his office for the same term, as by that section is provided in regard to county clerks.]

VI. That justices of the peace, in and for the city and county of New-York, to wit: The special justices, the justices of the marine court, and the assistant justices, and their clerks respectively, which now exist in said city, or such other justices in their stead; or such justices of courts, inferior to the courts of com. mon pleas and general sessions of the peace in said city, as may from time to time be created or established by the legislature, shall be appointed by the corporation of said city; and hold their offices for the same term that justices of the peace, in the other counties of this state, are entitled to hold the same, and be removable in like manner.

VII. That the officers of the health department for the city and port of NewYork, shall be appointed by the corporation of said city, except the officer now called the health commissioner, or any officer or officers who may be hereafter created in his stead, or assigned to perform the duties now belonging to the said health commissioner; which health commissioner, or other officer or officers, shall be appointed by the governor, with the consent of the senate, and be removable by the senate, on the recommendation of the governor; and that the legislature may provide, in any manner they shall see fit for the receipt, disbursement, and appropriation of all the moneys and property, whether real or personal, received by, or belonging to, or which may be received by, or belong to, the said health department.