mittees, because he thought it would produce unnecessary delay; it would take a committee of thirteen longer to agree on a report, than it would a committee of seven. The object for which these committees were appointed, was to bring before the Convention the principles which were to be discussed in committee of the whole; and when these principles shall have been submitted to the collective wisdom of all the members, they will then be moulded into such shape, as a majority can agree to. He did not think any proposition would be adopted in the exact words of these committees. The propositions reported will undergo a thorough scrutiny from each member, and receive such amendments as may be deemed adviseable. He concurred in the remarks which were made by the gentleman from Delaware, a few days since, that if the committees were too numerous, the members would in some measure feel themselves committed by their private deliberations and reports, and thus opposition would afterwards be unavailing. If the committees were to be augmented, another day would be taken up in making such additions. The committees as now constituted, would probably be able to report in the course of a few days-the one on the right of suffrage might be ready by Monday-when we can go into committee of the whole, and enter upon a discussion of the report. The other reports may be prepared in a few days, and in acting on them we shall all be occupied. The question was then taken on the resolution, and lost.

The President thereupon named the following gentlemen to compose the several committecs, viz.

On the legislative department--Messrs. King, Kent, Paulding, Sage, Rose, Ten Eyck and Lawrence.

On the executive department-Messrs. Sheldon, Wendover, Huntington, Yates, Stagg, Pitcher and Hogeboom.

On the judicial department-Messrs. Munro, N. Williams, J. Sutherland, Silvester, Wheaton, Duer and Wheeler.

On the council of revision-Messrs. Tallmadge, Platt, Ward, Nelson, Brooks, Russell and Van Horne.

On the appointing power-Messrs. Van Buren, Birdseye, Collins, Buel, Child, Edwards and Rhinelander.

On the right of suffrage--Messrs. Sanford, S. Van Rensselaer, Peter R. Livingston, Fairlie, Young, Cramer and Ross.

On the bill of rights-Messrs. Sharpe, Spencer, Hunter, I. Smith, Lefferts, M'Call and Richards.

On the parts of the constitution not embraced in the preceding resolutions— Messrs. Radcliff, Bacon, R. Clarke, Pike, Schenck, and Briggs.

On the commencement of the legislative year-Messrs. Root, Lansing, J. R. Van Rensselaer, Price, Beckwith, Rosebrugh and Burroughs.

On provision for future amendments-Messrs. Swift, Van Vechten, Barlow Steele, Tuttle, E. Williams and Verbryck.

The members of each committee were again named singly by the President, and approved by the Convention.

MR. FAIRLIE remarked, that the phrase elective franchise, had been made use of in some of the previous proceedings. He believed the term improper, and hoped the phrase right of suffrage would hereafter be used in its stead.

GEN. ROOT then called for the consideration of the resolution (relative to the pay of members of the legislature) which he yesterday offered, and which was ordered to lie on the table.

MR. DUER hoped the gentleman from Delaware would consent to withdraw his resolution. The committees to whom had been referred the several parts of the constitution were competent to the task assigned them, and it appeared to him obviously improper, in this stage of the business, to attempt to instruct them in their duty. Hic presumed the gentleman from Delaware had full confidence in the committee, to whom the subject of his resolution would be referred; and it would be better to wait till they had reported, and if the amendment which seemed to lie so near the gentleman's heart was overlooked, it tnight then be called up by resolution. He deprecated the precedent, which the adoption of this resolution would establish. If one member were permitted to call the attention of the Convention to a particular point, and to some favour

ite plan of his own, other members might follow the example, and the proceedings of the Convention would thus be embarrassed and delayed by a multitude of individual propositions, some of which might not be so proper, as the one offered by the honourable gentleman from Delaware. Such a course would frustrate the objects for which committees had been appointed. If any gentleman believed that he could aid the several committees by his suggestions and instructions, he was at liberty to impart his advice. He repeated, that if gentlemen were dissatisfied with the reports of the several committees, there would then be an opportunity for offering resolutions by way of amendment. He therefore hoped the gentleman from Delaware would see the force of the reasons, which had been suggested, and consent to withdraw the resolution.

GEN. ROOT. The honourable gentleman from Orange, wishes me to withdraw my proposition, which may be a reasonable request; still I must be pardoned for insisting on having a distinct vote taken on the resolution, instead of being struck" so forcibly with the impropriety of the course which I have undertaken to pursue. Yesterday it was premature to instruct the committee, because it was not appointed ;-to day it is premature, says another gentleman, because it looks like censuring that committee. When shall we instruct them? When they shall have made their report? Yes, this will be time enough, when they have performed the duties assigned them, and made their report! then will be the time, if they have neglected this provision, to give them their instructions! Sir, while that honourable gentleman supposes that it shows a want of decorum, in calling the attention of a committee to a particular subject, he does not recur to the newspapers, which he so frequently reads, to see that it is the custom in the house of representatives of the United States, as well as in the legislature of this state. It would seem, from the gentleman's argument, that individuals are to go before these committees, and instruct them what to do: for my part, 1 wish that the Convention might have the privilege of telling them, rather than an individual and humble member. I wish to speak to them not only in language which they can understand, but such as they will be willing to obey. But the gentleman asks, with a great stress of interrogation, what would prevent other gentlemen from offering propositions of this kind? I answer him, nothing. I hope and trust in God, that nothing is able to prevent any gentleman, save the power of Heaven, from submitting propositions to the consideration of this Convention; and can any person elected to this Convention prevent another from offering a proposition? If so, perhaps I may be so "struck" with the force of the gentleman's argument, as to be willing to withdraw my proposition. It has been said that projects may be offered disgraceful to this honourable body? Where is there a gentleman who would presume to offer any thing to the consideration of this Convention which would be disreputable? Is there an individual in this august body that would descend from the dignity of his station, and make such an offer? Sir, it is suitable, and it is important, that these committees, intrusted with the several branches of the constitution, should make an entire report, when they do report, and before it shall be taken up in committee of the whole. We are informed, that it would be better to wait till these committees shall have reported, and then instruct them; and let them bring in a upplementary report. This will, in my opinion, produce greater confusion than the course which the learned and honorable gentleman so much deprecates. I believe no one will deny that this proposition is important; I consider it important, from the experience of years, and from evidence which has frequently come under my view. Just at the close of the session, when the supply bill is under consideration; and in one instance, when on a bill in relation to the commissary general, members have been found scrambling for a little additional pay; thrusting their hands into the treasury for a little money, that the people never consented they should take. Sir, I have witnessed many a disgusting scene of that kind; and now as the people are assembled in convention, I am anxious to pursue such a course, as will prevent their being acted over hereafter. Let them provide for the pay of their successors, and my word for it, it will not be enormously high; because if some of the members expected to be re-elected, they would hardly dare to vote for the highest pay, for fear the people would animadvert at the polk of the election. This would be a sufficient

guard, in my judgment, to prevent the repetition of these disgraceful scenes. [Here Mr. R. was called to order by Mr. Spencer, who was of opinion that it was not in order to enter into the merits of the proposition. The President decided that it was in order, and permitted Mr. R. to proceed.] Mr. R. proceeded to remark, that his proposition either had merits, or it had none, and he was desirous that in either case, it should be determined by the Convention; and if it did possess merits, let it be laid before the committee for their consideration; and after their report, if it should pass by a majority of the Convention, let it be engrafted into the constitution. If the members of this Convention are of opinion that it possesses merits, they will vote in the affirmative; if not, they will vote in the negative; I therefore wish that a distinct vote be taken.

MR. J. SUTHERLAND supported the resolution. The subject of it was important, and he could perceive no impropriety in instructing a committee on that particular point. It might be doubtful, which of the several committees should take cognizance of it; and between them, it might be overlooked and neglected by all. Gentlemen appeared to concar in the propriety of introducing such a provision into the constitution; and as it was deemed a matter of some importance, he was unable to see the indecorum of instructing a committee to attend to it. He therefore hoped the resolution might be adopted, and that the subject of it might be specially referred to the committee on the legislative department.

MR. DUER, again rose, and spoke at some length in reply to the gentlemap from Delaware. He acknowledged that great deference was due to the legislative and parliamentary experience of that honourable member; but he regretted to witness on this occasion his determination to persist in a course so obviously injudicious. For what, he asked, had ten committees been appointed, and the several parts of the constitution specially referred to them, if distinct propositions and individual views were thus to be submitted by resolution? It appeared to him to be in direct contravention of the mode of proceeding which had been agreed on. Adopt this proposition, and a multitude of other projects not ridiculous and disgraceful (for he disclaimed having used such epithets) but injudicious and inexpedient, might follow; and thus would the duties of the committees be superseded, and the business of the Convention be retarded He had seen no reasons for altering the opinions he had already expressed, and hoped the resolution would lie on the table.

Here the President expressed some doubts whether it was parliamentary to instruct select committees by resolution; and solicited the opinion of some gentlemen on the subject.

MR. KING, believed it was strictly parliamentary to give instructions to any committee by resolution. Whatever might be thought of the expediency of the resolution, he did not doubt, but the convention was competent to give the instructions which it urged.

GEN. ROOT, again spoke in reply to the gentleman from Orange. The object of that honorable member appeared to be to get rid of the subject, to which the resolution referred-else what objection could he have to its adoption? The motion that it lie on the table, he considered tantamount to an indefinite postponement, or to a rejection. It would lie on the table, and be called up day after day, till it had become an old story, and that would be the last we should hear of it. He had supposed, that some members would wish for the privilego of offering resolutions, and of having them entered upon the journal, for the purpose of letting their constituents know what they were about, and whether they had faithfully complied with the mandates they had received before leaving home. He concluded with saying, that if the resolution was ordered to lie on the table, he should, if his life and health were spared, again call it up on Monday.

MR. EDWARDS Spoke at considerable length against the adoption of the resolution. He entertained no doubts of the competency of the convention to instruct its committees on any points; and he fully agreed to the expediency of such a provision, as the resolution proposed. But where, he asked, was the necessity of instructing the committee on this particular point, more than on any other, and to what would such a precedent lead? Other propositions

would in like manner be submitted by other individuals; and by voting for their adoption or rejection, members would in some measure commit themselves before the subjects were fairly discussed. For his part he wished to hold his judgment in reserve, to maintain a consistency of conduct, and not vote one day for an amendment, on which he might, after mature deliberation, the next day, find reasons to change his opinion. What possible good could result from pursuing such a course? Project after project would be offered, till the convention would be distracted and confused by a multiplicity of individual schemes. He was decidedly opposed to erecting any barriers to perfect freedom of discussion; but he was unable to perceive, that the rejection of this resolution would have such an effect. The debates on the reports of the committees would afford ample room for any amendments, and any new propositions. The principal argument which had been urged in favour of submitting individual views for the consideration of the Convention, appeared to be, that our constituents might know what we were doing, and that they might be satisfied their mandates were obeyed. For his part, he should content himself with a faithful and conscientious discharge of his duty; and doubted not but such a course would meet the approbation of his constituents. He said that this discussion was calculated to produce irritation of feeling which he should regret to see excited. He hoped the gentleman from Orange would withdraw his motion, that the resolution lie on the table, in order that the question might be taken on its merits.

MR. DUER withdrew his motion, and then moved that the resolution be indefinitely postponed.

MR. FAIRLIE thought it might at least be permitted to lie on the table. He could see no impropriety in granting such an indulgence. It might afford some satisfaction to have it die gradually, and be hanged with a silken cord.

GEN. ROOT rose again and vindicated his resolution. In the opposition to its passage, he could discover hostility to the proposition it contained. He hoped when the question was taken, it would be taken on the merits, and not on postponement. It was his misfortune not to be convinced by the cogent arguments of the gentleman from Orange, and other gentlemen who had spoken on the same side; and instead of acquiescing in their opinions, he called for the yeas and nays.

MR. MUNRO Spoke against the passage of the resolution, but in so low a tone of voice that all he said could not be distinctly heard by the reporter. He wished the resolution might lie on the table, till the committee on the legislative department had reported, and that it might then be called up, if the subject to which it related should be neglected in the report.

COL. YOUNG was in favour of rejecting the resolution at once. He believed it to be wholly unnecessary in this stage of the proceedings, and he was ready to give his vote for indefinite postponement, or any other mode of getting rid of it. Its adoption would establish a bad precedent. A committee had been appointed, within whose sphere the subject of the resolution would fall; and he was decidedly opposed to any interference, till the report had been heard. There would be time cnough after that, to introduce amendments.

MR. VAN HORNE moved to adjourn. His object was to give the members till Monday to reflect on the subject. Motion put and lost.

It was then moved that the resolution be postponed till after the committee whom it proposed to instruct had reported.

GEN. ROOT said, that the motion for indefinite postponement was the same as a motion for a rejection; if the gentleman wished to have it indefinitely postponed, it must have been, because there was something hateful in it, in his view. It could not be considered in any other light. How can that honourable gentleman reconcile it to his feelings, to vote for this proposition at a future period, after having been instrumental in turning it out of doors, as unworthy of being considered one of the family of propositions submitted to this honourable body. Sir, I regret that the honourable gentleman has not paid more attention to the course of parliamentary proceedings adopted in the congress of the United States, and in our state legislature. In the house of representatives of the Unit

ed States, a standing committee, or a committee on any portion of the president's message, is frequently called on by resolution, directing them to turn their attention to a particular point in relation to the subject before them. Several of the gentlemen in this body have been members of the house of representatives, and I appeal to them as to the correctness of my assertions. I really have a desire, that the ayes and noes be taken, that we may see whether this proposition is to be turned out of doors, for the sake of calling it in again.

MR. BRIGGS made a few remarks on the subject, and announced his intention to vote against the resolution. It was in his view wholly unnecessary, and could not be considered in any other light, than as a useless interference with the duties of the committee.

The question was then taken on postponing the resolution, until after the committee had reported, and decided in the affirmative, without a division. Adjourned to Monday, at 11 o'clock.

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 3, 1821.

Prayer by the Rev. Mr. LACEY. The Convention was called to order at 11 o'clock, and the minutes of Saturday read.

The President remarked, that before the vote on approving of the minutes was taken, he begged leave to rectify an error, which occurred in the proceedings of Saturday. A resolution was postponed, till after a committee had reported. It was contrary to parliamentary usage, to postpone to any contingent future event the postponement must be either indefinite, or to some fixed time. The decision of the Convention therefore would properly have been, that the resolution lie on the table.

MR. SHARPE remarked, that the secretaries were sometimes at a loss what motions ought to be entered on the minutes. Motions were often made, which were not acted on; and it appeared to him unnecessary that these should be recorded. He therefore wished, that it might be considered a settled practice that no motion was to be entered on the minutes, except such as were acted on by the Convention.

After these remarks, the minutes were approved.

GEN. TALLMADGE, chairman of the fourth standing committee, to whom was referred the resolution relative to the council of revision, asked leave to report. Before the report was read, he wished to remark, that the committee had not gone into any explanation of the reasons, which influenced them in making the report. He stated that the committee were aware, that they departed from parliamentary usage by submitting a report without accompanying it with their reasons. They had omitted to do this, because, in their opinion, the convention might be induced to adopt the amendment, for different views from those assigned by the committee. The reports of committees would remain of record, and might hereafter be used to give a false and imperfect construction to the proceedings of the Convention. The committee had therefore adopted this as the most proper course, and they hoped it would be considered by the other committees as a precedent. The report was then read by the secretary, as follows:

The committee to whom was referred so much of the constitution as relates to the council of revision, and to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations and amendments therein, and report thereon; having considered the duty assigned them, respectfully report:

That in their opinion it is expedient and proper to abolish the third article of the constitution of this state, and to introduce in place thereof the following amendment. The committee, therefore, respectfully submit to the consideration of this convention, the following resolution and amendment :

Resolved. That the third article of the constitution of this state be, and the sane is hereby abolished.