revenue, or who in the smallest degree sustains any public burthen, having an equal right to vote; and of course that as every one, whatever be his character or station, contributes something by way of a tax upon the rum, tea, or sugar which he consumes, it followed that every man in society is a rightful and proper

voter.

Ever since we lost our hold upon the great freehold anchor which had for forty years held us together, we appeared, as he had feared we should, to find ourselves afloat upon an open and untried sea; and the gentlemen from all quarters of the house are pointing us to one port after another in which they promise us some anchorage ground and some safety; yet as fast as we advance towards it, it seems to be relinquished as not worth the experiment. For himself, he had been with that small minority who was disposed still to adhere to the old freehold ground, so far as it respected one branch of the government; not so much on the ground of adding to the checking powers of the senate, as giving an artificial counterpoising weight to that branch-nor for the sake of giving to mere property, as such, and for itself, an additional weight in the government. Though something might be due these considerations-but it was rather on the principle of arriving through the medium of a property, particularly a freehold qualification, at a sort of moral and independent test of character, in the elector, which we could get at in no other practicable mode. And whatever might be said in a general sweeping way that property of itself conferred upon its possessor neither virtue, integrity, or talents, it could not be disguised that in this country at least, it was a safe general rule that industry and good habits did in almost every instance conduct the man that practised them, to some moderate share of property, and to a small competence, which only he would require. And of all other countries on earth, it was in a free republican frugal government like this, that such a qualification was the most reasonable one to require. To ask it of a man borne down by the burdens heaped upon him by an expensive and oppressive government, and born in a state of penury and dependance, from which, owing to the structure of the government, and the state of society, it was impossible he should rise, would be indeed but a mockery upon him. Not so here; there are indeed exceptions to it, as there are to all general rules, and many hard cases which cannot be provided for. Misfortune may overwhelm a worthy and industrious man, and for a time disqualify him; but this will generally be temporary and transient, and with a continuance of his good habits, he will soon again rise to his level, and to an enjoyment of his elective rights.

Of all other pecuniary qualifications, it was clear to him as a general rule, that a small interest in the soil, and the situation and habits of a small landholder and farmer, furnished the most probable test of character, and the greatest likelihood of finding united with it independence, sobriety, and safe intentions. It was for this class that the qualification was intended, as they comprised the great majority of our citizens, and not for the large landholders and wealthy speculators, whose numbers were few, and who could have but little comparative weight in the great body of small freeholders.

As to one branch of the legislature, he thought therefore it would have been wise to require this qualification for the elective suffrage, and we might then have extended it for the other branches to almost any extent which any gentleman could have asked for. Having been, however, overruled in this, he had been desirous, if practicable, to have fixed some definite and moderate limits to the general qualification ;—at least to the extent of requiring the payment of a small pecuniary tax upon some sort of property to the general fund of the community, and this upon the same general principles which had influenced him in relation to the small freehold qualification.--In this too he had been overruled by a majority, who had against his vote decided that every man who is enrolled in the militia shall be entitled to vote for every elective officer in the state. It is indeed provided that only those who are armed and equipped shall vote, but it is impossible to shut our eyes against what will be the prac tical execution of this provision, and that every man who can be mustered on a parade day will in fact vote. For what evidence are we to have of his equipment but the certificate of his captain, who is to be elected by the votes

of his company, none of whom he will be very likely to offend by holding them to a rigid compliance with a law which, but a small portion of them, as we are told, have ever been in the habit of complying with, at least, he will hardly deprive his personal and party friends of a right of voting for a small failure in complying with the requirements of the law, and the list of our electors will thus be held at the will of a militia officer, subject to all his caprices, his party feelings, and personal attachments. This, then, in its operation, is little short of universal suffrage; at least of all citizens between twenty-one and forty-five years of age, and there can after that be no good reason for excluding those who are over forty-five, and not therefore liable to enrollment, especially as they will from their age, their experience, and their habits, probably be in general more discreet voters, than those of the same class of society who are younger. The few other persons which will be comprehended in the amendment offered by the gentleman from Washington will then make but little difference in the real characters and qualifications of our electors as settled by the militia list, and though in principle decidedly opposed to both, yet as the one has been adopted by a large majority, I can see little use in withholding the others. Indeed, why after this insist upon any other qualifications than those of age and residence, and if we are in truth, and to all practical purposes prepared to present the question of universal suffrage to the people, let us do it with as little disguise as possible, and not under the name of military duty or highway labour, affect to impose restrictions which in their operation will have little or no restraining effect, and will besides be liable in their execution to those obvious abuses, which instead of a protection will be at the best but a perversion of the elective franchise.

For these reasons only he should, he believed, vote for the amendment of the gentleman from Washington, though he should in the end vote against the whole proposition with which it was to be incorporated.

MR. STEELE moved to insert the word white; but this was declared by the chairman to be inadmissible, according to the rules of the house.

MR. DODGE was in favour of some parts of the amendment, but disliked others. He made many prefatory remarks, and gave notice of his intention at a proper time, to offer an amendment calculated to meet the objects which he had in view.

JUDGE PLATT explained, and Messrs. Burroughs and Young made further remarks in support of the amendment.

CHANCELLOR KENT opposed the amendment, and assumed the ground that the principle it contained was more extensive than the reciprocity between taxation and representation, for which its supporters contended. The proposition covertly amounted to universal suffrage. The great object of government was the protection of property-life and liberty were seldom endangered in this country.

GEN. ROOT supported the amendment. Much stress had been laid on taxation in the course of the debate. There might be a time when no state tax would be necessary. Such a state of things had existed, and it had been predicted would again exist when the grand canal was finished. Would gentlemen have no voters in such halcyon days?

MR. RADCLIFF was for universal suffrage. Public sentiment called for it. Provision had been made for nearly all, and the remnant ought not to be excluded. Authorities cited from foreign writers, and precedents drawn from other governments, were wholly irrelevant-the people of this country, above all others, were intelligent and virtuous-he was not afraid of them. The argument drawn from the rise of populous cities was fallacious-town and country increase in the same ratio.

MR. KING said if any gentlemen had supposed him to be in favour of universal suffrage, as their language would seem to imply, they had grossly misappre hended his sentiments. In his view such an extent of the elective privi lege would be in the highest degree dangerous-no government, ancient or modern, could endure it. So far as he was acquainted, public opinion did not require it he was certain this was so in the quarter of the country which he represented, and he believed the same sentiments were entertained by the people of

the west. He was acquainted with the country whence most of them emigra ted, and with their fathers, and was confident the sons of such sires could not entertain such extravagant sentiments. The protection of property and the encouragement of honest industry constituted the basis of civil society, and were the primary objects of government. The possession of property was generally an indication of other qualifications. He would exclude all who had not the capacity to discriminate between candidates, nor the independence to exercise the right discreetly. In his view universal suffrage was perilous to us and to the country; and if it were sanctioned, he should regret having been a member of this Convention.

MR. STARKWEATHER wished some provision to be made against permitting shoe-blacks and stragglers from voting; and proposed an amendment to that effect.

COL. YOUNG said the gentleman's wishes could hereafter be gratified--at present it would not be in order. Mr. Y. spoke for some time in reply to Messrs. Kent and King. He adverted to the constitutions of Massachusetts and Connecticut, and said that all who paid a poll tax had a right to vote in those states.

MR. KING remarked that the poll tax was not universal.

MR. RADCLIEF remarked, that if the argument of the gentleman from Queens was correct, a re-consideration of some of our proceedings appeared to be necessary. Some discussion took place between Messrs. Van Buren and Young on the consequence of the vote, and with what understanding the question would be decided.

GEN. TALLMADGE assigned the reasons which would induce him to vote in favour of the amendment.

MR. VAN VECHTEN then occupied the floor about half an hour in opposition to the amendment. He recapitulated and enlarged upon the considerations which had been urged against the amendment, and pointed out the injustice and danger attending universal suffrage. In his opinion, public sentiment on this subject had been grossly misunderstood, and gentlemen had been deceived by the channels through which it came.

The question on Mr. Wheeler's amendment was then taken by ayes and noes, and decided in the affirmative as follows:

AYES-Messrs. Bacon, Barlow, Breese, Briggs, Brooks, Burroughs, Carpenter, Case, D. Clark, R. Carke, Clyde, Collins, Cramer, Day, Eastwood, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, Hogeboom, Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunting, Hurd, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, M'Call, Millikin, Park, Pike, Pitcher, Porter, President, Price, Radcliff, Richards, Rockwell, Root, Rosebrugh, Ross, Russell, N. Sanford, R. Sandford, Schenck, Seeley, R. Smith, Starkweather, Steele, Tallmadge, Taylor, Ten Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Fleet, A. Webster, Wheeler, Wooster, Yates, Young-63. NOES.-Messrs. Barker, Bockwith, Bowman, Buel, Carver, Dodge, Duer, Dyckman, Edwards, Fairlie, Fish, Hallock, Hunter, Huntington, Jay, Jones, Kent, King, Lansing, Lawrence, Lefferts, Moore, Monro, Nelso, Paulding, Platt, Pumpelly, Reeve, Rhinelander, Rogers, Rose, Sage, Sanders, Seaman, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, Spencer, Stagg, I. Sutherland, Sylvester, Van Buren, Van Horne, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer, Van Vechten, Verbryck, Ward, E. Webster, Wendover, Wheaton, E. Williams, Wood, Woodward.-55.

The committee then rose, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again, and the Convention adjourned.

SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, 1821. The Convention assembled at 9 o'clock. Prayer by the Rev. Dr. CUMMING, The minutes of yesterday were then read and approved.

THE ELECTIVE FRANCHISE.

MR. EDWARDS offered the following resolution:

Resolved, That the committee of the whole be discharged from the further consideration of the report of the select committee appointed to consider the right of suffrage and the qualification of persons to be elected, and that the same, together with the amendments made thereto in committee of the whole, be referred to a select committee consisting of thirteen members, and that the committee also report their opinion upon the expediency of excluding people of colour from the right of suffrage.

In explanation of the reasons which induced him to offer the resolution, Mr. Edwards remarked, that the object of this Convention, was to form such a constitution as would meet the approbation of the whole community-a constitution that would be deeply rooted in the affections of the people. All were in favour of granting to every man who was qualified to vote the elective privileges; but there were certain limits, beyond which we ought not to go. A. select committee might embody the sentiments of all the members, and harmonize their different views.

COL. YOUNG said he was about to move, that the committee of the whole be discharged from the further consideration of the report on the right of suffrage, with a view that it might be referred back to the select committee. It was his intention to offer, at a proper time, an amendment by inserting the word "white," so as to read "white male citizens." The committee has settled that the right of suffrage shall be extended; the vote was a strong one, and by members of the Convention who understand the subject as well as the gentlemen from New-York and Albany. Sir, many of the gentlemen in the majority upon this question are from the country; and know more about the feelings of the yeomanry, than those who, from their wealth, habits, and official stations, do not mingle among the people.

MR. SHARPE thought the motion of the gentleman from Saratoga was not in order, and would lead to embarrassments.

COL. YOUNG replied, that there was no danger of another entanglement. He proposed to move, in the first place, that the committee of the whole be discharged; and next, that the report be re-committed to the select committee who had originally made the report. He had supposed that they were as well qualified as others to act on this subject; but as the gentleman from New-York thought otherwise, he had no objection that another committee should be created.

After some further discussion between Messrs. Edwards, Young, King, Root, and the President,

GEN. ROOT objected to the resolution offered by the gentleman from NewYork, (Mr. Edwards) on the ground that it was premature. The subject should be gone through with in committee of the whole. Gentlemen have promised that when the report of the committee of the whole is before the house, they would move certain amendments, and be presumed they would fulfil their promise. It would then be time to refer it back to a select committee to have the amendments which have been made put into a compact form. With a view of having it take this course, he moved that the resolution offered by the gentleman from New-York, (Mr. Edwards) lie on the table, for the purpose of going into committee of the whole on the subject.

This motion was not seconded.

MR. EDWARDS observed, that the amount of what gentlemen opposed to him had said, was, that the Convention was not master of its own business. Sir, we have a right to manage our business as we please. The favour now asked, is the boon of a very large and respectable minority of this Convention, and of a

large portion, I will not say of a majority, of the people of this state. It is, sir, to have a little delay-that the subject may be calmly reviewed by a new committee, in no way shackled by any former official act. He had hoped, that to a request so reasonable, there would have been no opposition.

MR. WENDOVER made a few remarks.-If the motion were reversed and modified, he would have no objections to it; but in its present shape, he should be compelled, though unwillingly, to vote against it.

MR. R. CLARKE thought we should gain nothing by referring the report to a select committee. There were certain great and leading principles, which ought to be settled in committee of the whole, before the report was referred back to a select committee, whose duty it should be merely to reduce to a proper form what had been discussed and adopted.

MR. BRIGGS. The gentleman from New-York appears to wish to undo all we have yet done, sir. Sir, it appears to me to be all mummery. We have agreed to universal suffrage, and I hope we shall stick to it. Sir, we should agree here only to general principles; but we seem to be splitting on details.

MR. HOGEBOOM wished the subject might be referred back again to a select committee, in order to have some restrictions on this system of universal suffrage.

The question having been divided agreeably to the suggestion of the gentleman from Saratoga, (Mr. Young,) was first taken on discharging the committee, and carried.

MR. WHEELER wished to move an amendment. The President decided that it was out of order to receive any amendment other than to the motion of the gentleman from New-York, (Mr. Edwards.)

COL. YOUNG contended that it was in order, and appealed from the decision of the chair.

A desultory debate here ensued on the question of order, when

GEN. ROOT said it was unfortunate that there had been more difficulty in relation to the rules and orders in the short time that the Convention had been in session, than there ever was during the whole of any session of the legislature. Probably this is because the members are very well informed upon every other subject except rules and orders. They soar above these trifling matters. Certainly the decision of the chair was correct.

COL. YOUNG withdrew his appeal, and after some further conversation, the question was taken on the second part of the resolution offered by the gentleman from New-York (Mr. Edwards,) and carried.

Ordered, That the committee consist of thirteen members, who were subsequently designated and appointed as follows, viz.

Messrs. Young, Wheeler, Taylor, R. Smith, Rogers, A. Livingston, Bowman, Collins, Bacon, Burroughs, Fenton, Dubois, and Dyckman.

MR. MUNRO Submitted the following resolution which he wished referred to the committee just appointed.

Resolved, That the right of suffrage for all elective officers be vested in all the resident male citizens of this state, of the age of twenty-one years, who now are, or hereafter shall be, legally settled in the several cities and towns of this state, according to the present provisions in relation to settlement, now established by law. Resolved, That in each city and town a register shall be kept, in which the names of the several electors settled in such city or town shall be inscribed, in such manner, by such officers, and subject to such regulations as shall be prescribed by law; and while the name of any elector shall continue inscribed in such regis. ter, and he continue actually to reside in such city or town, he may vote in that city or town for all elective officers whatever; and upon his removal to any other city or town, his name shall be inserted in the register of the town to which he shall remove, upon producing the certificate of the proper officer of the city or town from whence he shall have removed, certifying that he is an elector of that city or town.

Referred accordingly.

JUDGE PLATT, following the example of the gentleman from Westchester, begged leave to offer the following resolution ;