But, finding that the first section of this article-which is the best of the whole matter, was passed upon in great haste, and entertaining a fear that nothing at all would be done, I felt it to be my duty to move for a reconsideration of the vote on that section-in order that my amendment might be submitted, as it has been, and in order that we might take all the propositions together, and carve out from them such a system as might best promote the one general object which we all have in view-the edu cation of our people. I was not willing for my own part, that this convention should adjourn, leaving the provision as it is, the "lame and impotent conclusion," of the constitution of 1790. Let those do so, who think proper. I will not be one of the number.

Mr. CHANDLER, of Philadelphia, rose to say a few words in explana tion. He wished to state to the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Ingersoll) what he (Mr. C.) knew to be the fact, in referenes to the Welsh communities of which he had spoken.

There were two Welsh congregations in the county of Cambria, tom whom the Welsh language was preached. There were also certain parts of the county of Allegheny, in which the language was preached. And, from a gentleman with whom he had just now been in conversation, he (Mr. C.) learned that there was also such a congregation in the county of Schuylkill. So that there were Welsh congregations in Cambria, Delaware, Allegheny, and Schuylkill.

I trust, added (Mr. C.) that the convention will now understand that I have spoken according to my knowledge.

Mr. WOODWARD rose, he said, simply for the purpose of corroborating the statement of the gentleman from the city of Philadelphia, (Mr. Chandler.) He (Mr. W.) would add that there was also such a congregation in the county which he had in part the honor to represent, (Luzerne.)

On motion of Mr. Cox, the committee rose, reported progress, and had leave to sit again. And a motion having been been made that the convention adjourn over to Monday.

Mr. EARLE, hoped that the convention would avoid all unnecessary waste or consumption of time. Complaints he said, had been made from time to time, by the conservative members of this body, of the waste of time and money in the prosecution of our labors. Articles had also been made in the conservative newspapers-he had read two within the last two days--complaining of the waste of time and money-and calling upon the convention to adjourn--that it would either finish its labors, or go home.. He hoped the friends of reform would make a point, when any gentleman attempted to increase the expense or procrastinate the proceedings of this body, to call for the yeas and nays, that it might be known to the people of the commonwealth, that it was the work of a conservative and not of a reformer. He therefore asked the yeas and nays on the motion to adjourn

over.

Mr. DUNLOP said, that one of the prettiest commentaries on the speech of the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Earle) was that he had not himself been here for the space of two weeks at a time.

Mr. FORWARD suggested, that the gentleman from the county of Philadelphia, (Mr. Earle) should take an account of the labor of each member who made complaints--in order that it might be ascertained how many days he had been here, and how many days he had been absent.

Mr. EARLE, in reply to Mr. Dunlop, insisted that he (Mr. E.) had attended here more hours than three-fourths of the members.

Mr. BROWN, of Philadelphia, said he hoped the gentleman from the county of Franklin, (Mr. Dunlop) did not mean to state that the absence of his (Mr. B's.) colleague for two weeks, had retarded the business of the convention. He (Mr. B.) thought the gentleman's absence had accelerated it.

After considerable desultory conversation, the hour of one having arri ved, and the question on the motion to adjourn over to Monday not having been taken;

The CHAIR answered that, as the hour appointed by the order of the convention, for its daily adjournment had arrived, it was his duty to adjourn the convention until this afternoon.

So the Convention adjourned.

SATURDAY AFTERNOON, NOVEMBER 11, 1837.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM, of Mercer, moved that the Convention do now adjourn, and the question being taken on the motion, it was decided in the negative.

Mr. EARLE expressed his regret that certain remarks he had made this morning, were made so freely as to be supposed to reflect on any gentleman, the more especially as regarded the gentleman from Philade phia county, (Mr. Brown.) He did not mean to assail that gentleman, nor any of the conservatives generally. But he would say, that his col league had assailed him now, not for the first time.

Mr. BROWN, of Philadelphia county, said he had meant no personal attack.

Mr. EARLE made a remark or two in reply, explanatory in its char

acter.

The question being on the giving leave to the committee to sit again on Monday, it was decided in the negative; yeas, 40, nays, 66.

Mr. BALDWIN, of Philadelphia, moved that the convention do now adjourn; and the question being taken, it was decided in the negative.

SEVENTH ARTICLE.

The Convention again resolved itself into a committee of the whole, Mr. REIGART in the chair, on the report of the committee to whom was referred the seventh article of the constitution.

The question being on the motion of Mr. READ, of Susquehanna, to

amend the amendment of Mr. INGERSOLL, by striking out all after section one, and inserting a substitute.

Mr. Cox, of Somerset, rose to make a few observations. When the amendment to the amendment was first presented, he had been inclined to think he should vote for it, as there were many things in the proposition of the gentleman from Philadelphia, which he did not like. He had now come to a determination to vote against it, in order that he might move some amendments to the amendment of the gentleman from Philadelphia, which he had prepared. He would propose to amend in the form he had written, because he thought the amendment, in its present shape, was too imperative, and was, on that account, calculated to render the whole amendment unpopular with the people, together with all the other amendments they might be called on to submit. He would leave in the words English or German," but would introduce in addition, "or any other language." He desired to adapt the section so as to provide for a general system of education. Any thing compulsory in its tone would not be well received by their constituents. The first school law which passed in this commonwealth, was on the recommendation of Governor Wolf, and it was alleged by many, that it compelled the people to accept its provisions, and on this account, it became unpopular. In 1834-5 a law was passed, and in 1835-6 a general law was enacted, which was accounted good; and which was accepted by most of the disstricts. All was left open to the people, and with a view to make it acceptable.

Mr. Cox said it was provided in the law of 1835-6, that the school system should be submitted to the several districts for their ratification and acceptance, at their discretion, every third year. Every third year they could say whether they would take it or not. That provision was in the thirteenth section of the school law of 1835-6. The question was to be decided on by the people of each district, whether they would accept the system or not. Meetings were to be called by advertisement, and they shall decide by ballot whether they will accept the school system in application to themeslves. That this was good policy, was sufficiently evident from the fact, that a majority of the districts which at first refused to adopt the school system had adopted it since; and if the system should be persevered in, without any thing to make it unpopular, he had no doubt that ultimately all the districts would come into it; and in that case there would be no necessity for any alteration of the constitution on the subject. But, if, on the other hand, the districts should persist in refusing to take the present voluntary system, then the compulsory system, now proposed, would be still less acceptable. The impolicy of going into any detail on this subject, and of providing for the immediate establishment of a compulsory system, after a particular plan, was amply proved by past experience, and especially by the unpopularity of the school law. The people of the state were almost ready to rise in arms when that law was passed, against the poll tax which it provided for a tax which was authorized to be levied, and which was not to exceed fifty cents. It was the intention of the legislature, at the time, to leave it to the discretion of the county commissioners, whether to raise the sum by poll tax or otherwise; but it was the opinion of the Germans, that the law provides that at least some portion of the sum should be raised by

66

poll tax, Some districts refused to receive the system on this account, He hoped that any provision now made, would be put in words so plain that there would be no misapprehension of the meaning. But, if we undertook to go into any details, the inevitable result would be, that the provision would be rendered indefinite and unacceptable, and it would tend to prejudice, instead of promoting, the cause of education. There were many things in the amendment which were well calculated to make the school system, established in uniformity with it, very unpopular, and to prevent its acceptance by the people of the school districts. The word immediately" in the first line, necessarily implied a revision of the present system. Its manifest and direct and imperative order to the legislature, was, that some alteration of the present school law should be made, and that some new provisions should be forthwith adopted under this clause of the constitution. This would not be acceptable, because most of the districts were well satisfied with the present school law, and believed it to be as good a system as could well be devised. Besides, they are reluctant to change a system which they have tried and approved, for an experiment, untried, and of doubtful success. But another very prejudicial effect of this clause, would be to increase and aggravate the opposition now made in some of the districts to the school system. Those districts which might ultimately come into the present voluntary system, and which undoubtedly will come into it, after a time, would be prevented from it by this alteration; and, if forced to accept the new system, they would do it with an ill grace. In the second line the amendment says, that the legislature shall establish schools in school districts, in every county in the state." He supposed that under this provision, the legislature would be bound to force every district to accept and adopt the school system. The language plainly enough bore that construction, and it could have no other meaning or construction. Many districts, he was certain, would not submit to any thing of the kind; or, if they did, they would hold in hatred and contempt those who made the law, or aided in getting up the provision on which the law was framed. It would make the whole system of school education unpopular and deprive us of those rights, and that degree of liberty in such matters which every free people claim, and are entitled to. He was much surprised that the very intelligent gentleman from Philadelphia county, should have offered such an amendment. This was a question which our people were capable of judging for themselves, and upon which they had an undisputed right to judge.

upon

ment.

The question ought to be left to their understanding and good judg We were told much of the intelligence and independence of the people, and he was always willing to give them credit for it, and to con fide in their judgment. But why could we not leave them to decide upon this matter, and to say when they are ready to receive a school system? They decide upon other questions of equal moment and interest. If the people are so honest, and so intelligent, as we believe them to be, why shall we provide that these schools shall be "immediately" established, in every district? Why not provide that they may be established; and leave the time, and the manner of their establishment, to their own good judgment and discretion? Let us say, in the fundamental law, that a school system may be established, and then we may safely leave it

to the people, and to their immediate and responsible representatives, the legislature, to devise and carry into effect, a proper system.

If the discretion of the people must be limited as to one thing, why not as to another? If they are competent to decide, every seven, ten, or fifteen years; whether the judges shall be discharged or re-appointed, why shall they not decide also upon this less difficult question? If they are intelligent enough to know when a judge has discharged his duties faithfully, are they not also capable of judging as to the details of a school law? Surely it is not a question of less difficulty whether a judge is competent for his office, than whether, and when, and how, the com. mon schools shall be established.

He would also strike out the words" at the expense of the commonwealth." He objected to this provision decidedly, and also to the other phrase which had been suggested, viz-" at the public expense." In whatever way the schools were supported, it must be at the public expense, no matter in what way the tax was imposed or collected. To say that the expense shall be defrayed by the commonwealth seems to be intended to induce the people to believe that they are not to pay the money out of their own pockets. This was nothing more than whipping the devil round the stump.

The money must come, directly or indirectly, from the people. First, it must be paid in before it can be paid out; and it had better be raised at once by direct taxation, because the people would then know what they pay. He did not think that we ought to say how the money should be raised, or where it should come from. The legislature was the proper body to determine that. They have determined it heretofore, in every case, and they were able to do it, and might do it again, and on all occasions hereafter. That provision, in regard to the source of the money which was to defray the expense, might as well be left out, as it could do no good; and, in his opinion, it was improper to retain it, or any other matter of mere detail. There were some other objectionable clauses and words in the amendment. He would suggest the propriety of striking out all after the word "or," with a view to leave it to the legislature to provide for instruction in German. or any other language, as well as English; and, for this purpose, to add to the paragraph the following: "Any other language that may by law be directed." The whole amendinent would then read as follows:

"SECT. 1st. The legislature shall provide by law for the immediate establishment of common schools, in school districts in every county of the state, wherein all persons may receive instruction, at the expense of the commonwealth, at least, three months every year, in the English, or such other language as may by law be directed."

Mr. INGERSO: L said he accepted the suggestion as a modification of the amendment.

Mr. Cox continued. He was very glad that the gentleman had accepted that amendment. When the present school law was before the legis lature, he offered an amendment to it, which some of the gentlemen, now in favor of this amendment, then offered. It was that the German language should be taught by qualified teachers, when it should be thought proper-by the people. The object of this was to enable the