H. OF R.]

Extension of the Pension Laws-Bank of United States--Pension Ager.cy.

[FEB. 4, 1804.

tee to whom had been specially referred sundry papers States, respecting the law question made by the bank, and letters relative to Indian affairs. That report pro- and on which its refusal restedposed the establishment of boundaries with the Indian Mr. WILLIAMS called for the reading of that paper. tribes, and acknowledged in clear and express terms that It was read, in part, when, on account of its length, M. the United States were then at war with them. He would W. withdrew his call for the further reading of it. read a single sentence of the report, though many extracts The question being on the reference of the papers to might be quoted of a similar tendency; but he did not the Committee of Ways and Meanswish to detain the House. It says, "nor can the Indians Mr. WATMOUGH said that he hoped no such caure themselves have any objections against the establishment would be adopted. The document was one of as great recommended;" that is, the establishment of a boundary importance as any paper which had been sent to the line. It then proceeds, "they were, as some of them House this session. It disclosed an entirely new set acknowledge, the aggressors in the war, even without principles on which the action of the Executive was to provocation." depend. It went directly and violently to assail an inst tution, the officers of which believed themselves to be ach ing under the solemn sanction of the law; and a thoroug examination of the case would prove that the grea which they had taken was in strict conformity to the las of the land. The House was now called upon to refe this paper to a committee which-he would not say w what appetite-seemed eager to devour every thing was sent to the House. Without any regard to the pr scribed duties which properly pertained to that comm tee, papers and questions of every sort were to be

This was enough to show that it was not then regarded as a private war-an official document of the old Congress recognising it as a national concern. There were a number of other reports of committees and acts of Congress, from that time till the 3d of October, 1787, when a force of seven hundred men was ordered by Congress to proceed in repelling the incursions of the Indians.

Mr. W. was proceeding, when

On the 29th of September, 1789, there was also an act of Congress recognising that a force of seven hundred men be raised for the purpose of encountering the Indians. In this act, also, was something more than the bare recog-gulfed in it as in a great vortex. nition of the war. In the 5th section it was expressly declared that these men were raised for the purpose of repressing the hostile incursions of the Indians; and the President of the United States was authorized to give orders for their assembling, their pay, subsistence, &c. They were regarded in the same light as other troops employed by the country in foreign war.

From that time down to the present, we had been almost perpetually engaged in war with some one or more of the Indian tribes. He could not find any one principle upon which these wars could be considered as private wars. He would reply, once for all, that if they were any thing, they were public wars. It might even be said that the adoption of the constitution of the United States was founded entirely upon this war. He would observe that the Senate Journal also corroborated what was found in the Journal of the other branch of the old Legislature, as the very first message of the President of the United States therein printed would show.

Mr. WHITTLESEY, of Ohio, rose to order, and quired of the Chair whether such a discussion was in one after the hour for morning business had expired'

The CHAIR replied that the paper had been presente and must have some destination given to it; but tha was certainly out of order at this time to enter upon merits.

Mr. WATMOUGH then moved that the message as papers be referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. Mr. CHILTON moved that the consideration of question be postponed until to-morrow.

Mr. PATTON suggested that so much of the motion related to printing be excepted from Mr. CHILTON's 20 tion: to which Mr. C. assented.

The question was then put on the postponement, negatived. Ayes 95, noes 113.

Mr. HUBBARD said that he had moved that these pers go to the Committee of Ways and Means; and if the That objection being disposed of, he could arrive at no was any one subject which manifestly and indisputa other conclusion than that the men engaged in the Indian pertained to that committee, it was such a question as warfare were as much entitled to partake of the bounty The gentleman from Pennsylvania had, indeed, sad of the nation as any other soldiers then on the pension the bank was acting in strict conformity with law, roll. It was not merely for themselves that they fought. this was begging the question. He denied the pos They fought for the protection of their fellow-citizens; in toto. they fought for their country, and the lands of the country; and the whole community were then reaping the benefit of their exertions.

The CHAIR here interfered, and said that the ment of the question embraced in the documents could n discussed.

Mr. A. concluded, by saying that he felt the more Mr. H. then said that there was a peculiar propriet called upon to express his opinions upon this question, be-sending this inquiry to the Committee of Ways and Mers cause he came from a different part of the country than inasmuch as the message contained a charge against those gentleman who had preceded him. It was incum- Bank of the United States; and all the memorials w bent upon him to say this much, and he hoped that had hitherto been laid before the House, in reference: all the members coming from his part of the country that institution, had gone to that committee. He c would do the same.

not see why the message should go to the Committee ** Mr. CHAMBERS rose to address the House, but the the Judiciary. It involved simply an inquiry, whe SPEAKER stated that the hour had expired. the bank rightfully withheld the money of the nation f** persons who were by law entitled to it. It containe BANK OF UNITED STATES.—PENSION AGENCY, charge against the bank of mal-conduct. All the papers containing similar charges had gone to the C

A message was received from the President on the sub-mittee of Ways and Means. ject of the refusal of the Bank of the United States to Mr. BARRINGER said that he had no very dec transfer the money and books of the pension fund to the choice, nor did he feel any great solicitude, as ta .. Girard Bank; and the message having been read- committee the papers should go. He had had, however, Mr. HUBBARD moved that the message, with the ac-some little experience as to the course of proceed companying documents, be referred to the Committee of the House, and he believed that hitherto all quest Ways and Means. law had gone to the Judiciary Committee. The Co tee of Ways and Means seemed, indeed, as had been marked by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, to be

The message being accompanied, among other papers, by a written opinion of the Attorney General of the United

EB. 4, 1834.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency.

[H. of R.

sorbing vortex, that was to swallow up all the business get an opinion adverse to the bank; that he might hold up the House. But, to him, it seemed strange that when the institution to the indignation of the public, and have was an admitted point that the whole difference be- its conduct reprobated, as exhibiting a new item in the een the bank and the Government turned upon the con-long catalogue of its crimes? Was this the object? or ruction of a law, gentlemen should refuse to send the was it to enable Congress to do whatever might be necespers to the law committee. The bank stood upon its sary to put an end to the embarrassment? He presumed nstruction of the law; it construed the law one way, and it was in order for him to presume that the President had e Government construed it another. Could any man no motive but to invite the legislation of the House with a asonably doubt to which committee of the House such a view of removing a difficulty which had arisen from the uestion should be referred Before he sat down, he construction of a law. If he had any other end in view, ould desire the reading of the communication from the were not the courts open? Could not the bank have been resident of the bank. Might it not be that the bank compelled to do its duty? But was there any gentleman ked for the interposition of the House, in order that it on that floor who believed that the Government would ight discharge itself from the obligation of the law, by venture upon a suit against the bank, even backed as it hich, at present, it conceived itself to be bound? was by the opinion of the Attorney General? He would To what committee, for such a purpose, should it go, put it to every legal gentleman in this House whether he at to the Committee on the Judiciary, who have under would advise such a course? He would venture to say, eir charge all that properly concerns the construction and he should be borne out by the tone (and he was sorry id administration of the laws? For the life of him (Mr. to witness the tone) of those papers, that there was wantsaid) he could not see for what purpose this question ing no disposition on the part of him from whom the mesas to go to the Committee of Ways and Means. Did it sage came to coerce the bank, who had the power to late, in any way whatever, to the financial administra- coerce it in his hands, in consistency with adjudged cases. on of the Government? Here, said he, is an appropria- What, then, had the President sent the papers here for? on made for a specific object, in consequence of which That there might be legislation on the subject; that steps certain sum has been set apart in the custody of the might be taken to bring the controversy to an end. ank of the United States, where, it is contended, it is be- To what committee ought the papers to go? Had it ond the control of the Executive, and can only be ex- been the practice of the House to refer questions arising ended in the manner prescribed by law. Now, (Mr. B. out of the construction of law to the Committee of Ways sked,) was it part of the intention of the law that this and Means? Or had it not been the practice to send such oney should be transferred to the local banks, and the questions to the Committee on the Judiciary, that the ensioners be paid in their notes, instead of the notes of House might get the opinion of its own judicial organ, le Bank of the United States, if it should please the Ex-who should present to it both the facts and the law as precutive to suppose it better that it should be so? And paratory to its proper action? To him, it seemed that this ow would the bank get rid of its responsibility for this controversy was based on one of the strangest questions ension money, placed in its keeping by the law, if it un-in the world-the question whether the pension laws were ertook to dispose of that money without law? If the pension laws.

Mr. B. replied that it might be necessary for him, in endeavoring to show to which committee the papers should be referred, to advert to what the papers contained.

uestion presented by the message had these strictly legal Here the CHAIR interposed, and reminded the genearings, it ought clearly to be examined by the Com-tleman that he was going into the merits of the message. ittee on the Judiciary. Mr. B. said he doubted not the pacity of the Committee of Ways and Means; but, he sked, was that committee selected in reference to the xercise of judicial functions? He had always supposed at the end for which standing committees on certain ading subjects were appointed was, that they should be elected with reference to their peculiar fitness for the vestigations respectively belonging to them. He premed that, in the appointment of committees, the Speak- had not failed in his duty in this respect. Mr. B. then ked for the reading of the letter of the president of the ank, accompanying the message, that the House might derstand what was the question in contestation, and be etter able to decide what committee it would be proper

send it to.

These papers having been read

The CHAIR said that the gentleman had undoubtedly liberty to refer to the matters in the papers for this end; but he could not permit the gentleman to wander into the merits of the subject of the papers. The gentleman was at liberty to show that the question was a legal question, but there he must stop.

Mr. B. resumed: In regard to the final settlement of the matter, it was, perhaps, of little consequence to what committee the papers went, but there was a peculiar impropriety in sending questions of such a nature to the Committee of Ways and Means. The controversy could only be settled, after all, by bringing in a bill, and passing Mr. B. resumed and said, however long a time the that bill into a law; and beyond question the proper comading of these papers might have occupied, he could mittee to report such a bill was the Committee on the Juot consider it as time misspent. Whoever had listened diciary. That was the appropriate organ for such a purthe reading of these papers would have a clear concep- pose. Let them report their construction of the law. on of the nature of the case, and would perceive that no He would venture to say that the Government would fficulty existed on the part of the bank, except such as never enter a court to settle the question. Let a comose out of its construction of the law; and surely a mere mittee report whatever might be necessary to consum. fference of opinion in respect to a legal point did not mate the wishes of the administration, and let there be no mount to such an offence as would require a labored quibble or quarrel about it. stigation from the Committee of Ways and Means. It Mr. CLAY inquired by what right the gentleman had emed to him that the construction of that clause of the asked whether the Committee of Ways and Means meant t of June, 1832to ingulf all the business of the House' Ilad that comHere the CHAIR interposed, and reminded the gen-mittee grasped at any thing beyond its proper sphere? man from North Carolina that it was out of order, at What subject had it interfered with, but subjects of reveis time, to enter on the merits of the subject. The nue and of the bank? Had the committee demanded the estion before the House was merely a question of re- reference of any other matters? and was it extraordinary that questions of this nature should be sent to that committee? To what other committee had they gone for years past? Nay, had not the gentleman's own vote re

ence.

Mr. B. then asked for what purpose the President had at these papers to the House? Was it that he might

H. of R.]

Bank of United States-Pension Agency.

ferred the whole bank question to that committee, so long as it had been organized to his taste? But now, gentlemen held different language. It was not for him to impugn the gentleman's motives. He was not at liberty to do so. But why had the gentleman cast an imputation on the committee, as grasping at every thing that came into the House? He defied the gentleman to point out a single instance. But he would put to the gentleman one interrogatory. Was the Bank of the United States to be suffered to dictate to this Government, and that at the risk of the starvation of the pensioners?

The CHAIR reminded the gentleman he was not in order.

[FEB. 4, 1831

construction of law? It claimed the indemnity on its own construction of its own charter.

Mr. BARRINGER here called Mr. C. to order. The CHAIR again decided him to be out of ander Mr. C. insisted that he was not out of order. He wo going to show the identity of this question with the other If this question could not go to the Committee of Way and Means, then the other ought not to have gone the The question under the bank's memorial was a questio of law; and he was showing, by analogy, that the sam question of law ought to go to the same committee. Th he conceived to be strictly in order. When that men rial came before the House, that would have been the tis Mr. C. said that if he was not to be suffered to reply to to raise the objection that it was a law question. He c what had been said by other gentlemen, he would submit not know that any such objection had then been ad to the Chair. He had full confidence in the Committee but, if it had, the House acted upon it, and sent the ne on the Judiciary, but hitherto all papers respecting the morial to the Committee of Ways and Means. The bank had been sent to the Committee of Ways and Means. a law question on a charter; this was a law question r He could not see why there was to be a division of the subject. After all, this was nothing less than the old question of the removal of the deposites. It was in substance the same question which was already before that committee. It was emphatically the question of the removal of the deposites. What did the law of 1832 say?

act of Congress. The Executive Department of 6 ernment consisted of a Chief Magistrate. The Exer had arrested the deposites, and it now demanded the pr sion fund, and yet the bank had—what should he calls the impudence to suggest that if they paid it over, t Executive would not give them credit for the man But this was like all the other language of the bas That institution was accustomed to dictate to the Gorey ment.

Mr. WATMOUGH here called Mr. C. to order. The CHAIR said he was very sorry the gentleman fa Alabama exhibited such a determination to disregarde order of the House. He had repeatedly admonished gentleman, yet still he persisted.

Mr. C. said he would read one or two rules of the Ho which he thought must settle the question. Mr. C. read the 57th and 63d rules, and argued to show that the gave the papers to the Committee of Ways and M. and, then, after several times repeating the ground he formerly taken, at length resumed his seat.

Mr. BARRINGER rose to explain. He wished to ply to something very like an imputation upon him, vi had fallen from the gentleman from Alabama. The p tleman had asked whether it was his desire that the pe sioners should starve? To this question he should re that his object was to prevent their starvation. The of March, which was pension day, was fast approach and, if these papers went to that all-absorbing verte [Here the CHAIR called Mr. B. to order,] to which gentleman wanted to doom them, that day would a and nothing would have been done. He wished to se them to a committee which would prepare the House f action, and report without delay. Which of the ther, had the most desire to starve the pensioners' to what the gentleman had said about the bank's get no credit at the Treasury, the gentleman was mistaker quoting him on that subject. He had not said ar about it. The gentleman got all that out of the paper not from him.

Mr. C. was here about to read the law, when the SPEAKER interposed, and again reminded him that he was out of order, and admonished him that, if he persisted in thus violating order, he should enforce the rules of the House. The gentleman must be aware that the merits of the main question were not now to be discussed. Mr. C. said that there could be no need for the Speaker to inform him that the rules of the House would be enforced. He had not resisted the rule, but had insensibly been drawn in to a reference to the subject of the papers. He should, however, submit to the Chair, but would state another reason why those papers should go to the Committee of Ways and Means. Would the gentleman say that the pensioners were to starve till the bank chose to pay them? Was the Government to await the progress of a law-suit, and, in the meanwhile, to suffer the men to starve? He presumed gentlemen would not say that this was intended. But how could it be prevented, but by applying to the appropriate organ of the House for an appropriation? The bank was in possession of a fund intrusted to it for the purpose of paying the United States pensioners under the act of 1832. The bank refused to deliver up the money to the organ appointed by the Executive. Would gentlemen say that the pensioners must be left to starve till the bank chose to pay over the money, or was compelled by a suit to do so? He hoped not, and therefore he was for sending the papers to a committee, and getting a new appropriation. The present debate had already lasted two months, and was likely to last two months more. In the mean while, the Committee of Ways and Means ought to have the subject referred to them. He had purposed to show that this was the main question, but the Speaker had decided that it was not competent for him to quote the laws of the United Mr. CLAY disclaimed any purpose of imputing to States. He presumed, however, that it was competent B. a desire to starve the pensioners. He had only mes for him to allude to what the gentleman from North Caro- to say that they would be likely to starve if Goveranc lina [Mr. BARBINGER] had said. The bank, it seemed, had to wait the progress of a suit. was afraid that it should not get credit at the Treasury for Mr. CHILTON said, it mattered little to him what e the money it paid over. Was there any gentleman who mittee got these papers. It would not be in order & would presume to say that this fear was well founded? him to suppose that any committee of the House wo Who believed it? Who could believe it? It surpassed fail in discharging its duty; but the question, as to the credulity of man, far! far! No man could believe it; committee such a subject pertained, connected itself *** no man did believe it. There was not an officer or di- the nature of the subject. He could assure gentlem rector of the bank who believed it. Why, then, was it that, in any remarks he had to make, he should careoffered as an apology? The bank had formerly presented abstain from any violation of the rules of order. He' a memorial, demanding indemnity for the removal of the regretted to witness the very many attempts of the deposites. This was but another part of the same ques- tleman upon his left to get at the merits of the main q tion. He could not distinguish between them. What tion. The gentleman had not only been repeatedly cal was involved in the bank's memorial but a question of the to order by the Chair, but had been reminded, in wh

8. 4, 1834.]

Bank of United States--Pension Agency.

[H. OF R.

by his friends around him, of the delicate situation of proved of it. The question between the bank and the presiding officer, and that the Speaker had thereby Secretary at War (said Mr. B.) is not the question immeen restrained from doing what he might otherwise have diately before the House. The principal question reposed his duty to require. Indeed, so numerous and gards the construction of the act of 7th June, 1832. The various had been the attempts of the honorable gentle- question before the House is upon the reference of the n to get into the merits, that it strongly reminded him President's message to one of two committees. Upon the story he had once heard about a schoolboy who was construction of the act of June, 1832, the president of the the habit of being tardy in his attendance upon school; bank has expressed one opinion, the Attorney General a o, coming very late one winter morning, was sternly different opinion. Which is right, and which wrong, is errogated by the master on the subject, and replied not now to be decided, but only what is the most apthe roads were so slippery with ice, that he could not propriate disposition of the subject, to put it in train for there any sooner; he had done his best; but whenever decision by the House. The House is not only precluded took one step forward, he slid two steps backwards. by the rules of order, as the Speaker has stated, from disYou lying little dog,” replied the master, "if that had cussing the principal question, but must at present be en the case, how could you have got here at all?" wholly unprepared for that discussion. I observe, sir, Why, sir," replied the boy, "when I found how the from the papers read at the Clerk's table, that the letter tter was, I turned round about, and came here back-of Mr. Biddle to the Secretary at War, which presents a ird."

This sally excited loud laughter, and the CHAIR called order.] Mr. C. then went on to argue that, if this question rered to the raising of money to pay the pensioners, then would legitimately belong to the Committee of Ways d Means; but no such matter was in controversy; there is no question how the means were to be provided. he means were already provided. The question was, hether the money should be paid by A or B. While had hitherto been paid at one point, it was now sought have it paid at another; and the whole question turned the words of a statute. He would ask any candid man nd he trusted in God he addressed a body of candid en,) whether this was not a question for the Committee the Judiciary? Supposing a question of law was raised court: on the one side was the judge, on the other the eward, whose business it was to supply the judges and her officers with food and accommodation. To which these persons ought the question of law to be referred the judge or the steward? The Executive understood is matter perfectly. The moment the difficulty was resented to him, to whom did he go? He went to the w officer of the Government. He sent for the Attorney eneral. He could see in a moment that it belonged to e judicial department, and not to the fiscal. For what ad was a Judiciary Committee raised at all? Were they have nothing to do? He had heard a gentleman who elonged to the Committee of Ways and Means, (not the entleman who stood at the head of it, but the gentleman ho was at the other end of the committee,) observe, that e should consider it an imputation on the committee if ese papers were withheld from it. But might not the diciary Committee more justly consider it a flagrant olation of order and propriety to withhold from them a ked question of law? A gentleman from Alabama had ked, whether it was not a money question? He anwered yes, it was a money question, but not a question to the raising of money. The question was, who was pay the money' Whom did the law appoint to pay it? nd this was a law question. If it were in order to go to the inuendos of the gentleman from Alabama, he ould really be delighted to do so. He had seen the sing storm

clear, and, it appears to me, a candid statement of his view of the duties imposed by law upon the bank, was written on the 23d January, and that the opinion of the Attorney General, which has been sent to this House today, bears the date of yesterday; so that his view of the case could never have been communicated to the bank, nor has the bank had an opportunity to consider the argument which that officer has submitted to the President. The bank has, therefore, not only not opposed the reasoning of the Attorney General, but it has had no opportu nity either to assent to it or to examine it. Mr. Biddle's letter, consequently, not being an answer to, or an examination of, the Attorney General's opinion, as it perhaps would have been had he been apprized of it; the mem. bers of the House must themselves make the examination, before they can be prepared to discuss the principal question. Gentleman must, therefore, dismiss this question for the present from their consideration.

There is another matter, sir, which may be dismissed from consideration with equal profit. The gentleman from Alabama has asked whether the bank desired that the old soldier shall starve? and something like this is the strain of the message. Sir, if the question were whether the old soldier should starve-if it were a question between the bank and the old soldier-I have a personal regard for the soldier, which, placed in opposition to what is at most an impersonal regard for the bank, would make me, I fear, a very partial judge of the issue. But the question, under the act of June, 1832, is not whether the old soldier shall be paid, but who shall pay him; and if the Secretary of War wishes him to be paid, he has nothing to do, while the House are settling the construction of the act, but to recall the order given to the bank not to pay him. The bank, it seems, is both willing and desirous to pay to the extent of all the funds in hand. The commissioner of pensions has directed the bank not to pay; and the bank has said, and ought to have said, that it will conform to the order, while it remains in force. If the Secretary at War does not wish the old soldier to starve, the recall of that order will doubtless produce immediate payment to the pensioner. If he starves by the order of the Department, it will be a matter of great regret. This question concerning the old soldier may, therefore, be put aside for the present, with the principal question.

The merits of the immediate inquiry are in a narrow

The CHAIR here called Mr. C. to order. It was not order, (the Speaker said,) to go into subjects of a per-compass; and, if it did not happen in this, as in most other nal kind. If the gentleman had finished his argument, e must take his seat.

debates on this floor, that collateral circumstances are brought in to force the mind from the real question, there Mr. C. replied, jocosely, that he had really thought that could be no difficulty in arriving at the truth. The bank e was himself the best judge whether he had finished entertains the opinion that, by the acceptance of the pens speech, or not; but, if the Speaker thought otherwise, sion agency under the laws of Congress, though it is e should certainly take his seat; and he sat down. burdensome and costly, and one that it has voluntarily unMr. BINNEY said he thought he understood the rule dertaken to perform, at its own expense, in aid of the order which the Speaker had been compelled so fre- Government, and not one that it was originally bound to ently to state to some of the honorable gentlemen who perform, still, that having undertaken to perform it, it ad preceded him, and that he both adopted and ap-must continue so to do, until discharged by law. It sup

H. OF R.]

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(FEB. 4, 1834.

diciary Committee than such a question; and the rule of the House must be so understood as to give that commis tee cognizance of every question of a judicial character, and not as confining them to matters in a course of jud cial litigation. To take this matter from that committee is to say that they have not the confidence of the House. Whatever may be the language of gentlemen, their as will say this, if they give it to the Committee of Wapi and Means.

poses that this is its duty, under all the pension laws, in- whether that difference should be left to the department cluding the act of 7th June, 1832. It sets up no right that interprets the laws, or should be remedied by a new whatever-it pretends to nothing of the kind: it supposes law. Nothing can belong more appropriately to the Je that it is bound by law to pay these pensions as well as the others, and at its own expense; and, being so bound, it supposes that the Secretary at War has not the right to transfer the books, papers, and funds to other agents in the same place. Up to the act of 7th June, 1832, and as to all previous pensions, the Secretary at War admits that the bank is right. The Attorney General is of opinion, as it regards the pensions under the act of June, 1832, that the bank is wrong, and the President refers the matter to Congress for their action. The simple question is, to which of two committees—that of the Ways and Means, or that on the Judiciary a reference will be most appropriate.

Sir, the gentleman from Alabama says that this is pa of the question of the deposites. It has nothing to do wa the deposites. If it had, the Secretary of the Treasty must remove it, and not the Secretary at War. It is in bank as a public deposite, but as an appropriation to that bank and its branches, as pension agents appointed by Congress, and only removable by them. At least, th is the question in controversy.

Sir, to the due preparation and despatch of the business of the House, a regard to the organization adopted by the House is indispensable. If the special design of the different committees is not to be regarded, the House may as well divide its body into convenient sections, and let In addition to these general views, sir, there are tw the business go to them by hazard or in rotation. The or- reasons why I think this subject should not go to ganization framed by the House ought not to be deranged, Committee of Ways and Means, even if it belongrat and therefore the proper functions of the two committees them appropriately; and I state these reasons as I eve should decide the matter of reference, and nothing else tain them, without any reference to the present structs should be permitted to affect it. What are they? The or composition of that committee. The first is this: Fra Ways and Means are a committee whose functions are in- my position in the committee, I am able to say that dicated by their name. Their proper business is to pre- course of the committee has been, hitherto, in my pare plans for raising revenue, for protecting it from above exception-every thing transacted before it waste and misapplication, and for appropriating it to the ing been done in a spirit of courtesy and amity. B particular purposes of Government; and nothing that has sir, it has an immense mass of exciting matter yet not a connexion, direct or incidental, with these duties, attend to; and if the questions of the deposites, and ought, either upon general principles or by the rules of bank, and the currency, and the trade of the country, 2ot the House, to go to that committee. The rules of the to come up before it, what is likely to be their efe House are framed upon this hypothesis. Now this mes-upon the discussion and decision of a question wholly sage does not present a question having any such connex- connected with any of them-a dry question upon ion, direct or remote. There is no question of revenue, pension laws? safe-keeping, appropriation, or expenditure, but a simple question of agency in making a disbursement that has not been made, and which all agree must be made; and this question turns upon the interpretation of an existing law or laws, regulating or affecting the agency to make that disbursement.

Sir, we may expect, while man is man, that the f ings excited by one inquiry will disturb and derange other; and that we shall have any thing but the resul cool and dispassionate judgment upon it, seeing that Bank of the United States is one of the parties. T other reason, and the last which I shall submit to t Sir, the gentleman from Alabama has asked, upon what House, is this. I address it particularly to the friends principle is it that the memorials of the banks, of boards the old soldier. If the Department of War will not w of trade, and of the merchants of New York, have been draw the order they have given to the bank not to p referred to the Committee of Ways and Means, and that this House ought to desire an instant action upon the it is proposed to refer, in like manner, the Secretary's tion. It should be settled immediately whether the h letter on the deposites, if this message is not to be so re- to remain as it stands, or to be superseded by a new he ferred? I will tell him. All those papers present a ques-If it goes to the Committee on the Judiciary, the actica tion which has a double aspect. In one point of view, that committee will be prompt, and we shall separate they regard the rights of the bank under their charter; least one subject from the mass of controversy that " and, had this stood alone, I should have said the Commit- public deposites have raised: but if it goes to the War tee on the Judiciary was the appropriate committee. But and Means, there is not only the question how it wil they also present the questions of the actual condition of decided, but when it will be decided. Doubtless, s the treasury, in point of security, of the influence of that the greater will draw to itself the less-the accessory condition upon the amount of the revenue, and upon the follow the principal-the pension question must att future value of the revenue as it may be affected by a de- upon the bank and the currency question; and we sha ranged currency. Had the inquiry been asked on this find the question of the pension laws and the old sel second aspect alone, all must have agreed that the sub- overlaid and smothered by the question of the depos ject belonged to the Committee of Ways and Means. The and the charter. When it will be decided no one can difficulty or inexpediency of dividing the questions has led tell. For one, I shall be happy if, either at the end to the reference of the whole subject on both aspects to two months, or of three months, or at the close of that committee; and, although I proposed a division, 1 session, we shall find the House at the conclusion of *** have nothing to say, at this time, against the judgment of

the House.

of those questions. I do not expect it. My appre sion is of still more protracted delay. I hope, sir, thes But, sir, the question under the message is purely a fore, that the matter will be permitted to go to the Cr judicial question; and whatever is to be the action of the mittee on the Judiciary, that it may be immediately de House, if it act at all, its measures should be prepared by posed of. Ifit goes to the Committee of Ways and Mears the Committee on the Judiciary. It belongs to that com- my impressions and fears are, that we shall see it adjust mittee to inquire whether the existing law is what one of only when we adjust the question of the public deposit the opinions communicated to this House asserts it to be, Mr. BELL, of Tennessee, said, if it was the object ": and not what the opposite opinion asserts it to be; and have the legal question inquired into and reported up: