How great this created traffic will be depends upon the class of patrons served by the road and upon the terminal facilities of the line. The extremes of society, the very rich and the very poor, are not good riders, and it is probable that a road serving either of these classes entirely would get very little return for additional accommodations. The greatest increase would come from those who are now the best patrons of the street railroads, the fairly well-to-do middle class.

In this paper the writer has not attempted to prove that either the single truck or the double truck car is the better type. He has merely attempted to discuss the subject to bring out the strong points and the weak points of each type in such a way that the results may be applied to special and local conditions. Outside of the question of economy of operation, there are few roads on which the use of attractive, easy-riding double truck cars would not create a pleasure travel, especially in the summer season. In a general way it may be stated that the single truck car is more suitable for short hauls, dense traffic, many stops and low speeds. On the other hand, the double truck car is the more suitable for long hauls, high speeds, few stops, and pleasure travel. In the existence of either extreme condition, it would not be difficult to decide which care to use. It is in dealing with intermediate conditions that the manager must use his judgment. Respectfully submitted,

RICHARD McCULLOCH.

DISCUSSION ON THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON "COMPARATIVE EARNINGS AND ECONOMY OF OPERATION BETWEEN SINGLE AND DOUBLE TRUCK CARS."

The President-This paper is certainly a very able and teresting paper, dealing with a subject in which we are all interested. Now let us have your views on the question. I hope that every member will discuss this paper.

Mr. McCormack, Borough of Brooklyn-Mr. McCulloch states in the paper that with the use of double-truck cars it would be possible to lengthen out the headway. I wish to state that on our road we have between three and four hundred double-truck cars, and in not a single instance have we been able to lengthen out the headway. The double-truck cars increase the patronage to such an extent that we have had to shorten the headway. One thing more, and that is,.

when it comes down to standing loads and moving crowds yesterday (Labor day) I noticed on the cars seating forty passengers going to Coney Island that the average was sixtyfive on the register. With a double-truck car, and a seating capacity of sixty, it is nothing unusual to see one hundred and twenty-eight and one hundred and thirty on the register; so you can see when you want to move large crowds, what the difference is with the double-truck car compared with a single-truck car. There are one hundred and seventy-eight double-truck cars running in the service on one line, and you can imagine what the travel is on that line.

Mr. Dimmock, Council Bluffs-What is the headway?

Mr. McCormack-The headway on the Court street line. running from New York direct to Coney Island is less than one minute. On the Third avenue line it is three minutes nearly all day, and part of the time two minutes. The headway from Sixty-fifth street to Coney Island where all the Coney Island cars converge is about twenty seconds.

Mr. Sloan, Chicago-The double-truck cars are certainly coming into practice and favor, and it seems to me the main question is the question of traction. I have had no experience with double-truck cars, and I would like to know whether anyone who has had experience with them knows anything about how the motors work when four motors instead of two are used to get the maximum traction. It is a subject we should know more about, because in the use of the doubletruck cars we are replacing the two motors with four.

REMARKS OF MR. JOHN I. BEGGS ON SINGLE AND DOUBLE-TRUCK CARS.

Mr. Beggs, Milwaukee-I think Mr. McCulloch has so thoroughly presented the case that there is very little more to be said upon it, particularly in behalf of the plaintiff. I do not think the writer of the paper evinced any partiality as between a single and double-truck car; but it is evident in what direction his sympathies lie. In the city of Milwaukee we have for three years been experimenting practically with

cars.

the advantages and disadvantages of single and double-truck In 1896 there were put upon the system twenty double-truck cars with maximum traction trucks. These cars were equipped with eighteen double seats. A year ago, in view of our experience of a year in the use of the cars, we enlarged somewhat upon them, improved the trucks, we think, by abandoning the maximum traction truck and obviating what had been with us a very serious difficulty, namely, the pony wheels leaving the rail. We increased the length of the car and seat forty passengers by placing twenty double seats crosswise. During the present year we have benefited by our experience still further, and have increased the length of the body and enlarged the seating capacity without increasing the overall length, which is forty-one feet over bumpers. We maintain the same size of platform so far as the accommodations to passengers is concerned, by increasing the length of the body one foot, slightly moving the seats together and reducing the amount of the bumpers in front of the dash, so that with our present car, so far as our service is concerned, there is little left to be improved upon in our opinion. We seat forty-four passengers, having twenty-two double seats, placed crosswise.

Of course the use of the double-truck car is largely determined by local conditions. For the climate of Milwaukee double-truck cars are a necessity. Because of our short summer season, it is almost impracticable to maintain different equipment for summer and winter services. There are many reasons existing with us for the adoption of a standard car for use all the year round, among which are the short summer season and the likelihood of chilling winds and cold rains at any time in the warmest days of summer. We have now a car that suits us twelve months in the year. We have not had any difficulty with the matter of traction. We use a thirty-three-inch wheel in the equipment; we are having built and still maintain only a distance of thirty-two inches from the rail to the bottom of the sill; that was one of the difficulties we had to overcome. We did that by giving considerable attention to the matter of the construction and

framing of the car to permit the thirty-three-inch wheel to readily pass around our shortest curves. We are so thoroughly convinced as to the advantages of the double-truck car that we are gradually permitting all our single-truck cars to be worn out and scrapped as their life is brought to an end. We have found that the use of double-truck cars has greatly increased the traffic; in other words, the people wait for double-truck cars on certain lines. We are compelled to place some of the single equipment on at times, but where the two types of cars are run on the same lines the people will wait for the double-truck car, for the reason that the riding is much more comfortable. Our double-truck cars on our lines ride almost as smooth as a Pullman sleeper. That, of course, depends largely on the character of the track; but on a large portion of our lines, particularly those where we are putting on the heavy equipment, we are having the joints cast-welded. We are doing away with the rocking and pitching motion of the car, and by the use of the double-truck are enabled to make much higher speed, which is the tendency of roads all over the country. We have to make higher speeds. We brought our averages up within two years certainly a mile. an hour. Our average speed now is fully nine miles per hour. We would not be able to do that with a single-truck car, because of the oscillating motion and liability of the pitching to displace the trolley wheel, whereas with the double-truck cars we seldom have that trouble.

As to wear and tear, we believe the weight of evidence is in favor of the double-truck car. While we have double the number of trucks and double the number of wheels to maintain, the blow of the wheel at crossings and special work is so much easier that it does not wear the trucks nearly so much, and we find that our repairs of springs is possibly seventyfive per cent less on the double than on the single-truck. We have been able to increase our headway on most of the lines on which we have placed double-truck cars. In other words, we try to regulate the headway of the double-truck cars to meet the general conditions during the larger portion of the day; and during the rush hours morning and evening, par

ticularly in the evening, we throw in intermediate cars, but still maintaining the regular headway of the regular equipment of the line. So far as the city of Milwaukee is concerned, we are very strongly impressed with the very great advantages of the double-truck car, many of which have been referred to indirectly in Mr. McCulloch's able presentation of the case, and we experience other advantages, which are governed by local conditions, and would not apply, possibly, in all cities even of the same population.

A question was asked as to the four-motor equipment. I might say that during the present year we have had constructed ten interurban cars, running between Milwaukee and Waukesha Beach, and the city of Waukesha, a distance of twenty-six miles. These cars were carefully constructed after careful investigation and the information we could get from electrical engineers. Based on this and our own experience and judgment, we have equipped them with four G. E. 1000 motors, geared to run thirty-six miles per hour, with 40,000 lbs. load. Our double-truck cars weigh about 35,000 lbs. With these four-motor equipments we have no trouble whatever from lack of traction, and we believe that in the very near future it will be advantageous for us to equip all our double cars with four motors. We have some grades which we climb with our double-truck cars, using 33-inch wheels, running as high as six and seven per cent. They do it with a little difficulty at certain times, and under certain conditions of rail and weather; but with our four-motor equipments we usually have no difficulty whatever in climbing the grades and in getting, we believe, very superior service.

I think, Mr. Chairman, that the case of the plaintiff, which Mr. McCulloch has been pleased to term the double-truck car, was so ably presented in his paper that it does not need any other advocate, but I should rather have denominated the double-truck car the defendant, because there have been so many attacks made upon it. I can only say, so far as we are concerned in the city of Milwaukee, that the double-truck car has come to stay. The character of the population you are serving has much to do with the discrimination that is shown