who have entered upon that experiment that it is beneficial to the company and the men alike. I certainly think we must get nearer to our men, and while the experience with these matters is sometimes very discouraging, owing to the fact that some men do not appreciate these things, yet if we can reach eighty per cent. of our men in that way, we have done ourselves good and also benefited our men.

Mr. Robert McCulloch: This is an interesting question. The question of fining a man or making him pay for a damage is a very serious thing. We have not done that. If I think a man ought to pay for a damage, or deserves punishment, I discharge him. We have in many instances offered a gripman or motorman the alternative of paying for a damage or giving up his place. That would be in cases where a man had several small accidents, and in some instances they have declined to pay and have given up their places; in others, they have accepted the condition, paid the damage and retained their places, and we have very seldom had another accident happen with that man. We have never discharged a man and made him pay for a damage as well.

Mr. Harry Scullin, St. Louis: I would like to hear some of the gentlemen present say something as to the methods of laying men off or reprimanding them. I believe it is an important subject, and I would like to hear some of the gentlemen give their views as to how they handle them; whether they reprimand them and discharge them, or lay them off and fine them?

Mr. Jones, Memphis: In that same connection I would like the gentlemen to say what they do with reference to bulletining men when these damages are charged against them, or when they are discharged, and things of that sort; whether they put up a bulletin and notify the employes that such and such a thing has been done?

Mr. H. M. Littell, New York: I will say in the company I am connected with, all reports regarding accidents, dismissals and suspensions are put on the blackboard. We have a book in which we make an entry of the date of a man's employment, and any record in regard to his references is kept in another book. Every time a report comes in against him it

is entered in this book, and the man is admonished; it does not make any difference what it is. When there are eight or ten reports in against him the book is then handed to the superintendent, who calls the man in, reprimands him, and enters in red ink, "Warned," with the date. Another eight or ten will come along, and he is warned again. Probably that man's page will be filled up before he is warned three or four times, and then he is discharged. When he is discharged we never re-engage him.

As to accidents on our cable and electric roads; when a man has an accident he reports it at the end of the trip. He walks into the station, and dictates the report to a stenographer. When he gets back on the next trip, the report is written out and he signs it. He does not lose any time. This report is then sent to our claim department, and if the claim agent thinks it necessary to talk to this man, he sends to him or he is called to the office. When he leaves the station, the foreman gives him a card, for instance, "John Smith left the station at 9:10 a. m.” He goes to our claim department, recites his case, and the claim agent then endorses on this card, "Retained until 3:10 p. m.," or whatever time he was kept at the office. This goes back to the division superintendent and he O. K.'s it. If the man has been five hours away he is paid for it. In that way we believe we get our men to report every accident, even the most trivial accidents. It is the small accidents that give us the most trouble-accidents which, in the mind of the conductor, or gripman, or motorman, he would think: "Well, that is not worth reporting," and he would say nothing about it; but the railroad company may hear of it in a month or two, or, possibly, in a year or two, and these are the most difficult cases that we have to defend, because we have no report and no witnesses. The conductor has gone or the gripman has disappeared. We talk to our men and try to impress upon them the importance of reporting everything. It does not make any difference if a man stubs his toe on the car, we want a report of it, if the conductor knows about it. If a man falls off a bicycle, or any vehicle, alongside of the track, and there is a car approaching, we

want a report. If a man stubs his toe on a street crossing, and falls while a car is passing, we want a report of that. As I said before, we try to get reports of accidents of every kind and nature which occur on cars and adjacent.

thereto.

With regard to rules, we have rules; but we believe we can do more with our men by getting them together and talking to them. Our gripman and conductors have a club, called the Metropolitan Club, with such a large membership that we are now compelled to increase the size of their quarters. We finished, a few days before I left home, a room 120 feet long and 60 feet wide. They have a stage and a piano, and the room is well lighted. We have in this room controllers, grips and other appliances; we have miniature cars, and tracks with conduits exposed; we have broken grips. If a man should have an accident with the cable, or the cable breaks, we bring in the piece and show it to the men, and tell them how to overcome it. We believe that we can do more by talking to them than by trying to reach them through a book. They have their toilet rooms, etc. We do not put them together. We have conductors' rooms and motormen's rooms. They do not associate together to any great extent. You will rarely see a conductor in the motormen's room, or a motorman in the conductors' room. They have their own lockers in separate rooms, and have checker boards, tables, chairs, and all that kind of thing.

About discharging men. We have a report come to the general office every week, giving the number of men discharged on each division, and if we find that the division superintendent is discharging too many men, we send to the stations and get the records of the men and find out the reason. I am quite positive that there have been a great many men discharged unjustly, for no good reason. Our foremen are as liable to make errors as the men are to make them. If a man is discharged we require that his complete record be sent to the main office; sometimes it takes a sheet of typewritten paper a yard long. It makes our foremen careful, and they are not going to discharge our men for some trivial offense. We do not like to change our men. If a man does

something that is not just exactly right we talk to him, and we try to make it pleasant for him and keep him in our employ. The cable men are paid more wages the second year than they are the first, and we believe that is some inducement for a man to stay with us.

Mr. H. H. Littell: I think the statement just made by the President bears out what I said, that there are no two cities in which the same conditions exist. Our road is not as large as his. We make a record of every complaint which comes in against either a conductor or motorman, and we do not wait until there is more than one complaint, but we call the man down on every complaint, either by sending for him when he is off duty, so as not to have him lose time, or send a man to him to call his attention to what he is doing in violation of our rules, or which in our opinion is a violation of good judgment. I think it is due to the man that he should be told, if it is possible to do so, every time there is a complaint lodged against him. We punish our men a little differently, probably, from most railway companies. We find if you have a man who has been on the road for some months, and he gets a little gay or careless, it is a very excellent punishment to put him, for one or two days, on some of the other routes, with some old conductor or motorman, as the case may be, and let him practice or "sub," as we call it. We find that it is the most efficient punishment that we have ever introduced for trivial offenses, such as taking a man off who has been guilty of repeated offenses of a mild character, such as failing to call the names of streets (we have the streets announced twice), or failing to keep the platform clear, as we try to keep the people off the platform as much as possible. For violations of these rules we put the offender on to "sub," and it is a beneficial thing; it takes the starch out of him, as it were -it humiliates him.

We find that there are a great many men who never make conductors, and a great many who never make motormen. It requires a peculiar tact to manage the affairs of either position properly and give satisfaction. In our city there are very few ladies who desire a conductor, even gently,

to put his hand out and touch her on the shoulder with the tips of his fingers when she is getting on or off the car. Lots of them hop on to the car before it stops, and they take offense if they are assisted, unless it is a very old or feeble person, and our conductors never leave the platforms to help people on and off, unless it be occasionally where a woman has been to market, and has, possibly, three children and four or five bundles, and then the conductor assists them in getting on and off. There are not many cases of that kind.

The President: The installation of the newly-elected officers is now in order.

VOTE OF THANKS TO ST. LOUIS COMMITTEE.

Mr. Goff, Fall River: I think one thing should be done before the installation of officers, which is due to the people of St. Louis. I move that a heartfelt vote of thanks be extended to the people of St. Louis, especially the Ladies' Entertainment Committee, for the very kind, courteous and hospitable manner in which they have entertained us, and for their labors in our behalf. I think they have set their aim high, and you will all agree with me that they have overtopped the mark. This has been one of the best meetings the Association has ever had, and in leaving you we leave you with the toast of Rip Van Winkle: "Here's to your good health, and your family's; may you live long and prosper." (Applause.)

Mr. Seely, Lock Haven: I offer an amendment to the motion that the Local Committee be included. These gentlemen have worked night and day, and we are under obligations to the Local Committee. (Applause.)

Mr. Goff: I accept the amendment, and include in the motion that the Secretary be instructed to send to them our assurances of esteem and appreciation.

The motion as amended, was put and unanimously carried.

VOTE OF THANKS TO SUPPLYMEN.

Mr. Harry Scullin: I move that a vote of thanks be also tendered to the supplymen for the magnificent exhibi