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need to because they already have their case as far as the
charges against these men (unintelligible) and ah, as they
pursue it (unintelligible) exactly, but we didn't in any
way say we (unintelligible). One thing Helms did raise.
He said, Gray - he asked Gray why they thought they had
run into a CIA thing and Gray said because of the characters

involved and the amount of money involved, a lot of dough.

(unintelligible) and ah, (unintelligible)

(Unintelligible)

Well, I think they will.

If it runs (unintelligible) what the hell who knows (unintelligible)

contributed CIA.

Ya, it's money CIA gets money (unintelligible) I mean their

money moves in a lot of different ways, too.

Ya. How are (unintelligible) - a lot of good

(Unintelligible)

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Well you remember what the SOB did on my book? When

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that he knew all about Dulles? (Expletive Deleted) Dulles knew. Dulles told me. I know, I mean (unintelligible) had the telephone

call.

Remember, I had a call put in

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and knew why.

Dulles just blandly said

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Ya

Now, what the hell! Who told him to do it? The President?

(Unintelligible)

Dulles was no more Kennedy's man than (unintelligible) was

your man (unintelligible)

(unintelligible) covert operation - do anything else (unintelligible)

The Democratic nominee, we're going to have to brief him.

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Oh no.

Tell him what we want him to know. I don't think

Yes sir. Brief him (unintelligible). We don't (unintelligible).

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(unintelligible) you would have been if Johnson called you in -

Johnson was out of office.

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Eisenhower, Eisenhower did not brief Kennedy.

and wouldn't be proper anyway (unintelligible) because you're

too (unintelligible)

(unintelligible) same thing that Eisenhower did. Course

P. No. I just simply think that we provide for (unintelligible)

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from the appropriate authorities (unintelligible) of course

not, and I don't think we ought to let Kissinger brief

just have Helms (unintelligible)

(unidentifiable)

What did you say that poll, Gallup (unintelligible) wonder

why he got it out so quickly. Usually lead time is two weeks.

Well, actually, this is where lead time usually was and until
the last few months (unintelligible). This time he's putting

it out fast.

(Unintelligible) want to get it out before the Convention.

Well, because he's got a trial heat, and he wants to put this

out before

set the stage for the trial heats.

(Unintelligible) before the Convention. (Unintelligible)

God damn (unintelligible) well what do you

P

You know we sat here and talked about (unintelligible) year

and a half ago. But we had no idea

we thought they do it

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on the TODAY Show (unintelligible and all that (expletive

deleted). And at that time (unintelligible) took events didn't we?

(Unintelligible) always known was the case, but

China, May 8, and Russia. That's all.

If you don't have the events you gotta make (unintelligible)

everything (unintelligible) better off putting three months or three

year's effort against one event than you are putting the same

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amount, tenth of that effort, non-event type thing.

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I'm really impressed with Shultz and all those guys

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I told him.

Fine.

I talked to Shultz about calling Connally and I said that you

had mentioned how impressed you were with the paper he had

done (unintelligible).

Eisenhower (unintelligible) sure elections (inaudible) and

then in November, before the election, he dropped a 57
(unintelligible) The reason for that was nothing he did,
Congressional election (unintelligible)

Ya.

I'm saying to you, McGovern candidate (unintelligible) problem got to take on (unintelligible) In 1958 (unintelligible)

March, (unintelligible) 52

Eisenhower?

Eisenhower.

(Unintelligible)

Yes sir (unintelligible) May 54-31, June 53-32, July 52-32, August (unintelligible) September (unintelligible) October (unintelligible) 26, November election 52- (unintelligible) January.

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For example, here's early July 1961, July 57. August 61.
September - September 58, October 58, November 58. That's

when we were running. We were running lower (unintelligible)

、

A little lower (unintelligible) Kennedy, you really can't tell about that. At the eve, his lowest was 62 (unintelligible) elections. But in 63 at the end he was 57. Johnson then, of course, he was up We've never been very high

in the 80s.

That's incredible. I don't think you ever will get up in the

80s.

No. Well Johnson, of course 66 46, 56 September October 44,

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November 44, December 48, that's all. Except his negatives

were higher 42, 44, 41 our negatives have never been that

high. He run around 49 (Unintelligible).

Ya.

Then it goes on 46, 48, 45, 41, 39, 39, 38, 51, 46, 58, 48, 39.

40, 41 (unintelligible) then back up to 49, 46, 42. The point

that I'm trying to make (unintelligible) cause you're under attack

Sure.

(Unintelligible)

Before the public eye the focus of attention is on the negatives

of the Administration.

It's an interesting point. Buchanan,

in response to the response to his attack

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Ya